Winter Footwear Solutions

[Christian Edstrom]

Have fun in PA. We're doing a family hike to Stockbridge/Cave Shelter/Hippo Rock tomorrow for the holiday.

[Christian Edstrom]

Got the Teva Chair 5s from STP. Overall impression of a great idea implemented in sort of a half-done way stand.

The outer boots are a hardish closed-cell rubber bottom with a fabric upper. I prefer them to this years model as they have a Velcro closure at the top and the top four eyelets are speed hooks, not full eyelets like on the 2014 model.

The inner boot is a high top slipper that velcros to the outer boot in the heel and at the front of the shin. It has an elastic band from the instep to the heel and velcros shut at the top. 250g insulation apparently and a thin waffle rubber sole.

Teva says they're good to -25C, but I'll note that neither boot has ANY insulation below the footbed. I bought size 13s, despite wearing a 9.5 E dress shoe and a 10.5 athletic shoe, so I will put in felt liners in the outer boot at minimum.

Fit is pretty good – I have wide feet and they are a bit narrow over the ball of my foot (and no chance these will stretch), but should fit most well.

In truth, these are really an après ski boot, but bought sized up and used with gaiters and a VBL sock, I think they're going to be interesting to try out as lightweight winter hiking boots. They are certainly extremely light. If they prove to be waterproof(ish), I will be pleased.

For $65 it seemed worth it to give them a try. I will report back presently.

[Andrew F]

I'm interested to see how those work out for you Christian. If I were you I'd seal all the external stitch lines with Silnet before use, for durability and waterproofing reasons.

[Christian Edstrom]

Haha, yes that's a good idea. We'll see how they last. 1-year warranty which I won't use frivolously, but I hope they stay dry at least. At worst, I got a cheap pair of commuter boots…

[Paul McLaughlin]

@Bob – re the 20 oz plastic boot; it exists if you want to pay $$$ for it. Ski mountaineering racing boots – also known as Rando race boots – like the Scarpa Alien 1.0 or the Dynafit PDG. Rigid sole, lots of fore and aft ankle flex, way light. Around $1K. You'd have to size up and get aftermarket liners, because they are sold with pretty thin liners since they are meant for racing. But they'd still be way light even with the thicker liners.

[Ethan A.]

While working out a winter footwear system, my wife and I were able to try the Neos Trekker in the Mt Mansfield area in Vermont at temperature -5F with wind chill to -25-30F during a snowstorm that dumped about a meter in two days, and also in similar conditions snowshoeing in Lake Placid, NY in the Adirondaks. We're wearing them in our avatar photo. That day was just amazing – we covered 14 miles in snowshoes (Northern Lite Backcountry Rescue and Elite). Also carried the Golite Infinity Pack, which was a fantastic pack.

We used the Trekker over Keen Growler 200g insulated synthetic boots, with medium weight merino socks and tried them with and without oven bag liners. We also wore Ibex merino long johns, and wore Gamma MX and Mammut soft shell pants. We were comfortable with and without the oven bags, but we stayed active and moving most of the day, and threw on puffy insulation jackets at rest stops. I mention the pants and long johns because they helped keep our lower legs warm. The only downside was the extra weight of the Trekker, and the fact that it added height to the sole of the Keen Growler and volume to our feet.

After moving to the W Coast we switched to the Forty Below TR Energy Overboots for lighter weight, lower height/volume in the snowshoe straps and better control. The Trekker worked fine though. Also switched to EMS Lightning Ascents to handle steeper slopes. The Northern Lites will let you move faster, the Lightning Ascent will grip much better on sharper angled slops and icy snow. They are both a pleasure to use.

Overboots really help keep your feet warm. VBL's help too, though I probably wouldn't use them above 15-20F.

[Ethan A.]

I like a system which can work with an insulated lightweight flexible boot, so that the boot can be used without our FB TR Energy Overboot for cold weather hiking.

Will Reitveld mentioned these in a recent Outdoor Retailer report which I pasted into my gear notes. His OR reports are amazing. Hope these are helpful:

Baffin Men’s Revelstoke Boot and Women’s Sage 400g insulation and removable liner – Designed for +41F to -58F (lower rating typically optimistic.) Removable liner with reflective technology. 2 pounds per pair.
http://www.baffin.com/product-p/litem002.htm

Arcteryx Bora 2 Mid Removable liners – Alpha2 FL Men’s and Bora2 Mid, liners are completely removable for improved wash-ability, dry-ability and can also be used without shell as camp shoe. Different liners with higher water protection and insulation available separately.

Arcteryx Alpha FL Low
Vasque Arrowhead Ultradry and Vasque Skadia Ultradry feature 200g Thinsulate, heat-reflective lining, zippered waterproof outer shell. Men’s 2 lbs 12 oz/pair. For active snowshoeing.

Vasque Snow Junkie insulated boot, for snow hiking.

[Ethan A.]

Doug did the Microspikes cause any damage to the bottoms of the FB TR Energy Overboots? I was hoping they could be used together without any damage.

[Bob Moulder]

Christian, which felt liners do you use?

[Christian Edstrom]

Sorry – I should have said insoles, not liners.

My current insoles are some no-brand set from a Swedish outdoor store – they're maybe 4-5mm thick and have a cross-hatch of latex on the bottom to prevent them slipping out when you remove your feet/inner boots. If I were buying new, I'd probably just get some Lacrosse 6mm or 9mm wool felt ones and paint the bottoms with liquid latex. In fact, that is what I will do this winter – my old ones are pretty packed out.

Ah but yes, maybe I can replace the whole inner boot with a wool felt liner. Hmm. Much experimenting to do!

[Bob Moulder]

OK, thanks much!

[Ken Larson]

Best boot for EXTREME COLD conditions I would recommend: Combat Boot, "Mickey Mouse" Extreme Cold Weather Boots, Waterproof Rubber, and Genuine U.S. Military Issue

No need for liners OR VBL.

GO HERE
or
GO HERE

[Christian Edstrom]

Mickey Boots are good for standing sentry, not so good for hiking.

Edit: I'll add that they work pretty well with NATO 120 cable bindings and Asnes Combat NATO or "Vita Blixten" skis.

[Robert Blean]

"Mickey Boots are good for standing sentry, not so good for hiking."

Why do you say that? I've put in many a mile on snowshoes while wearing them. GIs in Korea were doing a lot more than standing sentry duty while wearing them.

–MV

[Bob Gross]

The white Mickey Mouse boots were too bulky and too heavy for anything more than sentry duty on the DMZ.

–B.G.–

[Christian Edstrom]

For marching/skiing in sub-arctic conditions, I think a boot like the Jörn winter boots (as issued to the Swedish and Norwegian rangers) are just much lighter, more comfortable and more versatile over a broader range of temperatures (approximately -10c to -30c) than the bunny boots, based on your ability to vary insulation. (And they work better with the NATO 120 binding too).

The issue with the Jörn winter boots (and other similar boots like Lundhags Husky) is that they require a VBL and are not as idiot-proof as the bunny boots. But I think these limitations, while very very important for a fighting unit, don't matter as much to civilian backpackers – we've spent more time thinking about VBLs on this website this morning than all Swedish and Norwegian conscripts ever did in the history of time, and we have more opportunity to ensure our insulation keeps dry (no forced marches through rivers).

As I said in a PM to Ken, for interior Alaska or snowmobiling (or standing sentry on concrete), I'd pick bunny boots every time. If I had to pick boots for an artic ranger battalion with mixed hiking/skiing requirements, probably 75/25 against bunny boots. For recreational backpacking, I'd default to something else. Not saying bunny boots aren't good; just not sure they're ideal for lower-48 winter backpacking. They also take up a TON of room in the sleeping bag.

OTOH, they're a screaming deal.

[Bob Moulder]

I was issued a pair of these when I arrived in S Korea in January of 1979. Returned them to Supply when I left at the end of the year, having worn them very few times.

I would not want to hike in them.

Also, without moisture control of some sort or the opportunity to dry them out, they will eventually get wetter (and also heavier) each day.

[Bob Gross]

Once about 20 years ago I participated on a winter ski orienteering event. I showed up on my normal cross country skis and 3-pin boots. At the same event, there was a large group of Army Reservists who were there for winter weekend training on the same course. Most of them weren't real winter types, so they had equipment that was issued to them. That included wide skis and Mickey Mouse boots.

I'm sure that they did not sustain any cold injuries, but they sure couldn't move very well. They managed to cover about a quarter of the course that everybody else finished.

–B.G.–

[Robert Blean]

I used the black ones — not quite as warm as the white ones. -20F was fine, but -35F was pushing it. Some of my friends used the white ones on the same trips, though.

The white ones are big and bulky, warmer than the black ones, and are fine for at least snowshoeing. Also good, as you mention, for standing around — I suppose for ice fishing, although I've never done that.

–MV

[Robert Blean]

"I was issued a pair of these when I arrived in S Korea in January of 1979. Returned them to Supply when I left at the end of the year, having worn them very few times."

My knowledge of their use in Korea comes from talking with a man who was an Army captain who fought in the Korean war. They had the black ones — white ones did not come until later on. They lived in those boots, 24 hours per day and they did a lot more than stand sentry duty.

The boots worked fine as long as you took them off several times per day, dried your feet, and put on dry socks. You had to do that to avoid trench foot. For my civilian use that was never a a problem, because I did not sleep in them.

–MV

[Mike M]

any updates on these boots? any other lightweight boots w/ removable liners that have come out recently?

[Author]

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