carbon fiber tarp pole breakage.

[Justin Baker]

First off, I need to say that I have only ever backpacked with a flat tarp that was pitched off of trees or boulders.

Recently I picked up a zpacks carbon fiber pole off of gear swap and I just received a trailstar off of gearswap today.

Obviously I tried pitching it on my front lawn.

Everything was good until I snapped the pole while tightening the guylines.

I didn't think that I was tightening it too hard. I've tightened down my flat tarp much harder off of trees (which is probably my problem as I have no experience using a tarp pole).

Are these carbon fiber poles really flimsy or was I just tightening it too hard? I was trying to tighten it down enough that it would have a taught storm pitch without flapping.

Having my center pole break on me in a storm could be a serious problem.

Are aluminum poles going to be this way too?

I don't use trekking poles unfortunately.

[Billy Ray]

Perhaps the pole had a crack in it you didn't notice.

Billy

[Bob Gross]

The only carbon fiber pole that I ever broke had been tightly packed in a duffle checked in an airliner. Those gorilla baggage handlers can break about anything.

–B.G.–

[Ralph Burgess]

I often hike without trekking poles, so my Zpacks carbon fiber tent pole has had a lot of use (with Hexamid tent) over the past couple of years. If I'm faced with stormy conditions, I'll put huge tension in the guy lines – both the Dyneema lines and the Cuben Fiber tent are extremely strong under tension. The tent & pole have withstood 60mph winds on the rim of the Grand Canyon, and many thunderstorms.

So the Zpacks pole is plenty strong enough, there is no design problem. But I'd never buy something made of carbon fiber second hand. You have no idea how it was treated – could have been stepped on, whacked against a rock, who knows… small cracks, even scratches, sometimes barely visible, can lead to failure in carbon fiber.

[Justin Baker]

Didn't even think about a crack in the poles.

When I was first setting up the trailstar I noticed that the pole had tilted over a bit and was flexing. I loosened up the guylines and readjusted it. Could have tilted off center again while I was playing with it.
Do you need to pay close attention to the angle of the pole when setting up a trailstar?

[Jerry Adams]

I use Easton Aluminum poles for my pyramid

I have some 0.625" poles which are overly strong. No matter how hard I tighten it or how hard the wind blows, it never flexes. But they're heavy – 7.5 ounces for 60"

I have some 0.433" poles which aren't really stiff enough. When I tighten the guylines as much as I can, the pole starts flexing a little. But I think the poles are designed for a tunnel tent where they flex a lot, so I don't think I'm anywhere close to failure. 4.5 ounces for 60"

What I like about those, is they flex a lot before they fail.

If Carbon poles can catastrophically fail with no warning if there's an un-noticeable crack, that would be an undesireable characteristic.

I could accidentally step on it or whack it against a rock, although I'm fairly careful with my gear.

[Ralph Burgess]

"Do you need to pay close attention to the angle of the pole when setting up a trailstar?"

No, I don't think so. At any angle, the pole is under the axial compression that it's designed for. If it broke, most likely it was already cracked.

"If Carbon poles can catastrophically fail with no warning if there's an un-noticeable crack, that would be an undesireable characteristic."

In the early days of carbon fiber this was certainly true. Crush or shock could lead to cracks, and catastrophic failure. A couple of unpleasant experiences from my cycling days many years ago make me wary – I'm always extremely careful with anything made of CF, and I inspect for cracks before each trip. I use Alu hiking poles for this reason, since hiking poles inevitably get bashed around a lot. Having said that, CF technology has come a long way, and I don't really know if it's now any more prone to catastrophic failure than UL Aluminum.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com/

[Ozzy McKinney]

I'll second that thought on no carbon trekking poles. I've heard countless stories- and witnessed first hand- many carbon trek pole failures, too many for my anxiety ridden mind. I wouldn't really count out a carbon tent pole though.

[Bob Moulder]

Where did the pole break? At the tip (junction with another pole) or did it splinter lengthwise?

A very good field repair (stronger than new!) is to wrap the broken section very tightly with some Kevlar thread and then give the thread a light soaking of thin cyanoacrylate (Crazy) glue. Dental floss (unwaxwed) is a fair substitute for Kevlar thread, but I don't think it is quite as strong… (I don't know this for certain because I have no instrument to test.)

[Nick Gatel]

I have a zPacks pole for my Hexamid. After a few trips it felt too flimsy and I replaced it with a thicker one from Ruta Locura.

The trailstar has way too much tension for either of these poles.

I don't use trekking poles anymore, but when I need to use the trailstar I take an old pair.

I just bought a pair of Big Agnes adjustable aluminum poles for a tarp I plan to use with a shade tarp with my boat, not for backpacking. They only weigh 3.1 ounces and look to be very sturdy. But at a Max length of 45" they are probably 2-3 inches too short for the trailstar. I am going to play around with them and the trailstar when I have time.

There are probably no lighter pole solutions than a pair of Gossamer Gear LT4's. Maybe there are, but I haven't looked that hard. I am 18 months into my anti gear buying exile.

[Justin Baker]

It's a 48 inch and it broke about 2/3 of the way up the pole.
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[Nick Gatel]

With all the panels on the Trailstar there is a lot of tension to make it taut, which is why it is so good in the wind. Need beefier poles.

[Justin Baker]

Do you think the 45 inch 3 oz six moon designs poles would be a good option? Will 3 inches make that much of a difference?

[J-L]

Justin, the ZPacks and SMD poles are about the same stiffness IMO. If you broke a ZPacks carbon fiber pole, you would probably break a SMD carbon fiber pole as well. The Trailstar is a large pyramid tarp, and it would be easy to over load a little center pole.

If you don't want to use a trekking pole, I would be looking at the 0.600 Tarp Poles from Ruta Locura or similar:

http://www.rutalocura.com/Tent_Poles.html

[Andrew F]

110-115 cm on the center pole gets me a tight to the ground pitch on my Trailstar. Unless the weather is bad, I pitch it at 125 cm to have a little more headroom. I wouldn't go shorter than 110 cm for a fixed length pole.

[Peter Nash]

I had a ZPacks 48" carbon fiber pole break when I was testing my new Hexamid two years ago. The tent was set up in my back yard. I left it up during a storm, and wind stresses caused the pole to snap at a ferrule.

Since then, ZPacks has strengthened their poles. I haven't heard of any problems with the newer poles. Perhaps the pole you got second hand was the earlier model?

ZPacks gave me a refund, and I bought a Ruta Locura carbon fiber pole as a replacement. That was before ZPacks improved their poles. The Ruta Locura pole was pricey and heavier, but it hasn't failed yet.

[Justin Baker]

John, forgot to say that I was looking at the aluminum smd pole, not the carbon fiber.

[J-L]

A 3 oz aluminum pole is probably about the same compared to a 2 oz carbon fiber pole.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

As an XC racer who has use CF ski poles I can say they are tremendously stiff and strong IN COMPRESSION but lass so in a bending force and are a bit fragile when hit with a lateral blow or heavy, "slow" lateral force.

That's why some CF poles are reinforced with aluminum sheathing on the bottom third or quarter or have that part entirely replaced with aluminum.

P.S. Try to get poles that are diagonally interwoven (Think Maypole dancers weaving their long ribbons on the pole.) SWIX, the ski pole maker does this matrix weaving of CF fibers and gets great strength from the process.

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