Tenkara vs Golden Trout

[Bill Law]

I decided to take up fishing again (after *many* years) and Tenkara seemed like the way to do it.

Went to 20 Lakes Basin a couple weekends ago and decided to head up to Conness Lakes to do some exploring and test out my gear.

I can say that Tenkara does indeed catch fish!

I caught a couple little brook trout in the evening at Steelhead Lk.

I guess I'm hooked; already bought some more flies after reading about which ones to get on another thread here.

[Andrew F]

Nice. After about a year I still am in love with Tenkara. I just got back from a 4-day trip in Kings Canyon and did just as well as my buddy who had a western fly rod. I caught 10-12 rainbows, about 25 small goldens, and innumerable fat brook trout over the course of the trip. With a 18' line lake fishing in the Sierra is easy.

[Marko Botsaris]

Hey Andrew, what flies did you find worked best there with your Tenkara rod?

[M G]

Curious about flies as well. Heading out to SEKI in 5 weeks!!!

[Andrew F]

I almost always fish dry flies these days. Good flies to use are elk hair caddis, Adams, mosquitoes, grasshoppers and ants. Size 12 works great, makes catch and release easy and the tiny fish won't get hooked. I caught every single fish on my latest trip on a single size 12 elk hair caddis. They all work, but I keep an eye out for what bugs I see around the lake and pick accordingly. If you are far enough from a trailhead they will eat anything. Back when I experimented with strike indicators I had more than one backcountry trout try to eat the indicator off the surface instead of the nymph below.

Smaller nymphs e.g. size 18 pheasant tails and hare's ears might help you pull a monster out of an alpine lake or a deep pool in a river, but they mostly collect dust in my fly box. I could carry just a size 12 caddis and be happy with that, but a little variety is fun.

Tenkara on lakes works better than you'd think, fish a long line and look for rocks in the shore that will get you access to deep water.

[Andrew F]

[Justin Baker]

Did you find one of those rare high alpine lemon trees?

[Andrew F]

Yes, the lemon tree was also very useful for the margaritas that went along with the trout.

[Justin Baker]

Ok guys, I have some very noobish questions.

I recently ordered a tenkara starter kit from tenkara bum. It came with a "level" line and on the site it says I need to buy my own "tippet". I'm assuming the level line is my main line and a short length of the tippet attaches the fly.

I have flyfished a few times in my life and I recall having a fairly heavy line that gave weight to the cast and that heavy line was connected to a light line.
This "level" line is very thin.

Do tenkaras use very thin lightweight line?
Why have I seen some pictures of tenkaras with heavy braided lines?

I have been fishing successfully my entire life but I really don't know anything about fishing, I mean up until recently I didn't know what a swivel was. I just take whatever beat up pole I have and chuck a lure or worm into the middle of the lake… and then whenever I read about fishing gear on the internet it's all so complicated.

I also need to read up on these different types of flies, I had no idea about that.

[Marko Botsaris]

In this case the level line is your "fly line", and alternative to the braided/furled line. The level line is usually fairly light line but it works just fine. The tippet 4-6 feet of line at the end that is usually about 2-4 lb test. Very thin, and weaker than your level line so it breaks first. You could, for instance, use 4 lb fishing line for the tippet. If you want to be more PC then you could use flurocarbon line for the tippet (less kinky, heavier, but more expensive) for example 6X.

Tenkara Bum has a make-your-own horsehair tapered line kit if you want to go super-trad. I have one but I'm waiting to start for the winter when I need something to do indoors.

This is not a bad video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnkkOogQlLk

that while teaching knots manages to answer some questions about the line parts. He shows both the level line and braided ones in there.

[Justin Baker]

about how long should my fly line be with a tenkara (not including the tippet)?

[Marko Botsaris]

"about how long should my fly line be with a tenkara (not including the tippet)?"

Shorter is easier to cast, and easier in tight places where you don't want to cast far like a small stream. Longer a bit harder to cast but you can reach out farther. A good rule of thumb is a level line the length of your rod or perhaps a foot shorter to start with. Then if your tippet is 5-6 feet when you lift the rod straight up and over your head the fish should be about at your feet. Longer and you are going to be landing them with your hands, which is ok if you need the length. Then change the length to suit your tastes. Really Tenkara is very simple. You almost can't do it wrong. Just remember that the fly goes on the END of the line.

So I'd say try a level line 1 foot less than you rod with a 5 foot tippet, and just keep that until you feel it is too short or too long.

BTW, I find I can cast a 25-30 foot level line just fine with my 12 ft rod, but landing a fish is not too pretty.

[Andrew F]

Hey Justin,

Marko gave some good answers to your questions. Sounds like all you need is some 5X tippet and a few flies – try flyshack.com or theflystop.com.

I use an 11' rod. I bring a 13' braided line with about 2 feet of 5X tippet tied to a fly on a spool. I also bring an 18' level line with about 2 feet of 5X tippet tied to a fly on another spool. Both of these were difficult for me to cast when I started, and I used to mainly use a 10 ft 6 inch braided line and about a foot of tippet.

The braided line is heavier than the level line. Either type works fine. I find the braided line a little easier to cast, and more convenient to use in general. But with the level line you can cut it to any length you want.

Once you figure out the terminology it's really simple. You need a rod, a line, some tippet, and a fly. That's it.

[Justin Baker]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Hopefully by next week I will be using at the local pond. It's been like every cast for me there, a good place to start learning.

[Bill Law]

Ok guys, I have some very noobish questions.

Ooh, we can ask those?

Here are some of mine:

First, I was a little surprised that my fly ("reverse hackle Kebari") sank, which makes it a "wet fly." I found I could adjust how much by using the angle of the rod and speed of the "retrieve." My first question: What's the best strategy for the depth and speed at which to fish such a fly?

Second: Should I be applying a little motion to the fly as I retrieve it? I saw one suggestion online to lightly squeeze the rod handle and if you thought you weren't doing it enough, that meant you were wiggling it too much.

Third: At a lake, should one cast straight out, pull the fly parallel to the shore, or somewhere in between?

I would guess the answers to all these is "it depends." My plan was to simply experiment and figure it out for myself, but since we're opening it up to noobish questions, I figure I'd ask.

[Andrew F]

Justin, the easiest way to learn is to go fishing with someone who knows what they're doing. That's how I learned. I'm pretty busy until the end of September, but if we end up going on a trip together again, we can definitely do some fishing.

Bill,

I often fish a kebari on deep fast streams, and it works great when the fish can't/won't come up for a dry fly. I caught a bunch of fish out of the West Walker River and Carson Fork of the Stanislaus earlier this year on a black #14 sekasa kebari. There isn't really a wrong way to fish one, but keep in mind you are trying to imitate some kind of aquatic insect that is swimming around or emerging to the surface. So my default technique is to cast it into a plunge where the water is foamy upstream to get it to sink to the bottom fast, then bring it back to the surface with short pulses as it drifts downstream. You can also "dead drift" the fly where you don't apply any movement and simply let it move with the water. But, any kind of movement that gets you a strike is good; try experimenting with different techniques for 3-4 casts and see what gets some interest. This youtube video has some really good examples that give you a feel for the timing and how much to pulse the rod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItgHMloFezs&list=UUcTgnl5MvFJ9t95LD_C2H9g

Keep in mind that in moving water, I almost never have the fly in the water longer than 10 seconds; let it drift by while doing a few pulses and then cast again. Don't be afraid to make lots of casts. If after ten or twenty casts you get no interest, change your technique or move a few feet upstream or downstream.

Stealth is important here; if the fish sees or hears you coming, it's unlikely that they will take any kind of fly at all. So don't just stomp up right to the water's edge and lob a fly in. It's not so important on fast water with lots of cascades, but on slower water where the surface is smooth (e.g. Lyell Canyon in Tuolumne), I have literally had to crawl up to the water's edge and cast blindly to avoid spooking the fish. The further you get from a trailhead, the less this is a problem.

For lakes, you will find that the fish usually cruise along the drop-off between shallow and deep water. This way they can look for food that gets blown in (ants, grasshoppers, etc.) while still having easy access to deep water to hide in if a predator comes along. Most lakes in the Sierra will have an 8-10 foot ring around the outside where they are shallow then drop off suddenly to deep water. I try to cast around that boundary. For some lakes it's really far out and you have to pick a spot where a rock sticks out into the lake and just cast as far out as you can. Other lakes where it's closer to shore the fish will cruise within a few feet of the edge you can cast anywhere you want. For lakes, I generally leave the whole line lying straight out on the water and have the rod tip just a few inches away from the water to maximize the distance I can cast. This is opposite of fishing a creek, where you only want your fly and tippet to be touching the water.

It always pays to spend five or ten minutes just observing the lake or stream before you start fishing. Look for fish that cruise by or rise to the surface. The best time to fish lakes is just after sunrise and just before sunset, if a lake has fish and you're around at that time you will likely see hundreds of rises and you will know exactly where the fish are. In that case tie on your favorite dry fly and you'll catch a fish on nearly every cast.

[Bill Law]

Thanks, Andrew. Your advice is helpful.

I have purchased some dry flies based on your recommendations (which didn't mention colors; I chose the ones that I preferred, from my "try to think like a trout" perspective).

It sounds like I was doing it right, or close enough, at some point during my experimental efforts.

Are trout only interested in food? Are spoons and spinners indistinguishable from baitfish, then? I ask because back in Michigan, one often threw outrageous lures at bass and pike in an effort to annoy/anger them into attacking the lure.

I haven't seen many kebari-like bugs in Sierra lakes and streams (not that I was looking for them).

[Adan Lopez]

Coming from years of conventional flyfishing, I found the transition to Tenkara super easy except for the aspect of managing your line during a day of fishing. The line has to be spooled somehow before walking too far, especially along brushy streams. I finally made myself a small wooden spool for this and it's helped alot. Still, I think there's room for improvement, perhaps by modifying my rod slightly to spool the line directly on the rod. Still working on this idea. Anyone found a solution that works really well?

[Andrew F]

Bill,

I'm not a spin fisherman, but my understanding is things like Z-Rays and Panther Martins imitate small fish kind of like a wooly bugger fly would. The big fish certainly eat the smaller ones. Can't say I've ever annoyed a trout into taking a fly, but maybe I should start playing Justin Bieber on my cellphone while I'm fishing.

The sekasa kebari doesn't specifically imitate any bugs, but it looks kind of like a midge or a mosquito. The idea is you'd fish it where the water is fast enough that the fish don't have too long to look at it.

Adan,

Agreed, I used to find the line management really annoying, walking around with an 11' rod and getting the line caught on stuff. Then I found two things: the TenkaraUSA line holders, and Fuji EZ Keepers (available from Tenkarabum.) The line holders make spooling/unspooling the line super easy, and you can just pop it over the end of your collapsed rod to walk up/down the creek. After using the line holders for awhile, I also got the Fuji EZ Keepers, and they are even better. It takes like ten seconds to collapse the rod and spool the line and you are good to keep walking or stow the rod back in your pack ready to fish again at a moment's notice. If I am walking more than a few feet and I can't easily hold the rod and line I will collapse it and spool the line onto the holders. With the Fuji EZ Keepers make sure to spool your line in a figure-of-eight pattern and you can just flick the keepers down and your line will fall in a neat pile in front of you with no tangles. It makes the whole experience much less frustrating (and makes my friends with Western fly rods jealous.) Traditional furled lines get an additional nod here for ease of use, since you don't have to stretch them to get the kinks out when you start fishing for the day.

Andrew

[Adan Lopez]

Ordering these immediately….thanks Andrew!

These are very similar to what I was working on for my rod, except that I planned on installing small wire versions which would be whipped on just like the line guides are. Mine would look real nice and would appear to be part of the original design of the rod. However, I would not be able to flip them down to unspool the line, so the EZ keepers win there.

[Jim H]

I use the EZ Keepers, and the only issue is that mine seemed to have streteched bit and loosened on the rod after a season. I need to run to the hardware store and find some new rubber washers. In the meantime, I've been using the TenkaraUSA line holders and they're great too.

[Adan Lopez]

Maybe you kept them on the rod during storage? I wonder if they won't have that problem if they are only on the rod during fishing trips.

[Greg Mihalik]

Fuji EZ Keepers

I used EZ Keepers for a couple of years. The O-rings degrade in about a year (depending on your number of river days). You want to watch for cracking and then replace them. They are a PITA to install because they are so tight. It's not something you want to do each time you rig.

This is what I have done for the past several years –

– on the left – the Drop Shot Hook Keeper is taped in place for a trial run before committing to wrapping and cementing. It has a much lower profile than the EZ Keeper. Then I cut a groove in the butt cap. This arrangement means less wraps to stow the line since you are using the entire length of the butt section, and there is nothing to fail.

– on the right – Velcro 'hooks" bonded with contact cement, if you want to try this without hacking the butt cap.

Here is a wrapped and cemented DSHK –

It's not "rod building quality", but it is solid.

[Adan Lopez]

excellent. Now I'm ordering a dshk as well!

My idea was very similar to what you have there except that I planned on doing something different on the butt end. I was going to make a washer that would fit between the rod and the butt cap. This washer would simply have a protrusion of the right shape to form a keeper.

But on the other end, the dshk is going to serve perfectly, thanks for the tip!!

I wonder if Tenkara makers have a good reason for not building rods with line keepers or if it's simply aesthetics.

[Greg Mihalik]

"I was going to make a washer that would fit between the rod and the butt cap."

A washer that diameter may be too thick for the thread length of the butt cap.

Here is what got things started –

– compliments of Tenkara: Radically Simple, Ultralight Fly Fishing by Kevin Kelleher.

This is Patagonia's approach –

Before I settled on grooved butt caps I fashioned a tab from the bottom and shoulder of a soft plastic bottle. I cut and shaped a portion of the "bottom" into a "washer", with the shoulder making up the tab. It was OK, but if you are gripping the end of the handle as you cast it occasionally gets in the way.

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