DIY simple, inexpensive, and durable silver anti odor treatment?

[Anonymous]

I think i may have "cracked the code" on this one. I'm trying this out myself tomorrow or this weekend on some synthetics without anti stink treatment. If this works well, then this could make a lot of DIY type folks here really happy. Hint, this may be similar to a growing in popularity, durable anti stink silver treatment for synthetics. I won't name names for obvious reasons.

This is what i'm doing. First, making some silver chloride/water solution with my so called colloidal silver maker. Treating some synthetic garments with some dye remover (i just found out about this stuff–bought a Joann's fabric), and after making sure it's really rinsed out so no residues of any kind. Bought some I Dye, dye for synthetics at Joann's. Follow instructions, except only putting about 1/3 or 1/4 of the "color intensifier packet" in with the dye. (i suspect the latter has sodium chloride or something similar in it)

As the water is heating and dye is being mixed, pour my silver chloride water suspension in with the hot water/dye/intensifier mix, follow directions of boiling for half hour to 1 hour. ******Note, you may want to only try this on garments that are a loosely fit, because this could shrink them some.******

Let it cool down and after, throw it in the rinse cycle of your wash. Tada, you have just bonded silver chloride to the surface of the synthetics as the dye was bonding to same. Because it's bonded with the dye, which bonds well to the fiber, so isn't the silver chloride. This *should* last a long while–definitely much longer than a wash in silver treatment.

How to make silver chloride easily and cheaply if you don't have a colloidal silver maker (or prior knowledge):

Things you will need–distilled water, a fresh 9 volt battery, some silver wire (at least 99% purity), glass bottle, jar, or drinking glass around a pint size. A little more is ok. A couple of tablespoons of pure sodium chloride or as pure as you can get (preferably no iodine, or no anti caking or flowing type agents).

Take glass jar/bottle/glass, fill up most of the way with hot distilled water, thoroughly mix in your 2 tablespoons of salt, take the 9 volt battery and wrap part of one end of the silver wire around the positive terminal, wrap another wire around the negative terminal (with space in between these! should be parallel) now make a set up wherein you can have the wire sticking out from the battery and inserted most of the way into the water. Two Popsicle sticks over the jar/glass/bottle to hold the battery could work. (note, you can use other conductive metals for the negative terminal, but the silver wire must be connected to the positive one and the other metal [say copper] wire to the negative. The positive terminal/electrode is what "gives off" the particles and ions in the water, so you want that to be silver).

You want the silver wires/strips long enough to go down to near the bottom of the glass, but with some space between it and the bottom.

Now, just wait–occasional stirring would help some, but not totally necessary. A few hours or so later, and you have an aqueous suspension of silver chloride—the magic ingredient. The silver wire might be a bit expensive at first glance, but that one little wire will last you a pretty long time depending on gauge, length, etc, but in any case you can get many treatments out of even a smaller wire. Obviously, the longer you wait, the more concentrated the silver suspension will become. I'm not exactly sure on times here, this is just approximation from researching colloidal silver making, but there are a lot of variables. I would say longer is better generally speaking, but at least a few hours per that much water and salt.

With about a pint of silver chloride in water suspension, you could treat probably up to two smaller/lighter synthetic garments. So again, the silver chloride water suspensio goes in with the dye and some of the color intensifier, with a little hot water and synthetic garments, all mixed well and boiling in the water.

I will let you know how my experiment with this goes. As soon as i'm done with a synthetic garment, i will be wearing it to try to stink it up, so i will likely run or otherwise sweat in same, and wear it at least a few days. Then i will wash it a bunch of times in a row, then do the same thing, try to stink it up.

Edited because i forgot a step.

[Anonymous]

Note: this method will not work on polypropylene clothes. It's best for polyester and nylon.

Reason being is that polypropylene is dyed when it's still in liquid form. I'm guessing because it's so chemically stable and so hydrophobic they can't do it any other way.

[Anonymous]

I'm truly surprised that there isn't even any initial interest in this? Sure, you could screw a bit with the color of your baselayer, but what is a little color funk, if you can get rid of the other funk?

One packet of IDye Poly dye costs around 2.99, and treats something like up to 2 to 3 lbs of clothing (course, you will need to make more silver chloride than just a pint to treat that much fabric). One packet of dye remover is like 2.99 and will treat a number of garments.

One silver wire will last many, many, many treatments to make silver chloride. So long term cost is actually quite low. 9 volt battery pretty cheap and so isn't distilled water.

[Bob Gross]

This sounds like you are trying to do electroplating of fabric.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

Sort of, not really. You make the silver chloride from an electrolysis process, then you add that pre made solution in during a dyeing process. As the dye bonds with the synthetic fibers, it brings/bonds the silver chloride with it, and it's all on the surface of the fiber but fused somewhat in with the dye itself.

I talked to a growing in popularity company, and they mentioned that for their permanent treatments, they have the manufacturers add the silver solution in during the dyeing process. At the time of talking with them, i wasn't thinking of trying to replicate their methods.

After learning a little about dyeing processes, i had one of those aha moments, and realized it was key to the durability of the treatment.

It was easy enough to figure out how to make silver chloride, which is also what that above company uses.

Essentially we are mimicking what they do with their process, though there may be some differences. I can't say for certain how concentrated their silver chloride solution is or isn't for one example.

I would not be surprised if the DIY version doesn't have quite the durability of the commercial treatment, but it should still be much better than using any kind of wash in solution (which they also sell).

There are a couple of risks though, getting a funky color or pattern going on (i suggest first removing some dye from the garment to be treated) or shrinking a garment–because you have to boil the garment with the solution/dye etc for a half hour to hour for it to set. However, neither is a big deal to me personally. I just won't do any garments that are tight to begin with.

Ethics: I don't think this is necessarily unethical talking about this because i'm not trying to profit off it at all, and i really doubt this knowledge is going to prevent anyone from buying a garment with said silver treatment.

[Anonymous]

"9 volt battery pretty cheap and so isn't distilled water."

Long term, it's more economical to go to Radio Shack or the like and get an AC to DC converter rather than using 9 volt batteries. Anywhere from 12 to 30 volts would be fine.

Due to the lack of interest shown, i will not be updating this thread in the future, experiments or no.

[Jerry Adams]

I have at least 30 AC to DC convertors laying around from dead electronic devices, I could use one of them.

Don't assume no one is reading this even if there are relatively few responses.

Since I do solo, I don't worry too much about stinking, but other people talk about it sometimes. People buy those silver treated clothes for sure. Cool to extract silver from wire, etc…

[David Scheidt]

I'm interested in learning whether it works or not.

[Jonathan Chin]

"Don't assume no one is reading this even if there are relatively few responses."

Ditto. I'm interested but don't have much to add, as I have no experience or education on such matters. The one question I do have (besides how well it works and how long it lasts) is what the the silver would be bonding to in the dye.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Hehehe— do it wrong and your skin might turn black. Some silver based compounds are know to be light sensitive :)

I've had a couple polyester base layers that got smelly fast, notably a TNF top that was terrible that way, but most of the later model stuff has been fine. If you are out for an extended time, it's not hard to wash a light base layer and you can take sponge baths.

[Anonymous]

Ok, i will update the thread with results.

To Jonathan. I'm not sure what exactly it's bonding to in the dye. I do know that in some dye treatments, they require besides boiling, to add salt or a stronger base like sodium carbonate (often called "soda ash") to help the dye bond better to the fibers.

The silver chloride might take the place of the sodium chloride or sodium carbonate to help that process. This is why i said to only use a little bit of the "color intensifier" packet that comes with the IDYE POLY dye, because i suspect that it's a soda ash and water or salt and water mix. Btw, it might be a good idea to add a little of that packet after doing the boiling process with the dye/silver chloride for awhile.

It could work on the principle of acid and alkaline. These have opposite electro-chemical charges and therefore tend to attract/bond to each other? (this is part of the reason why they tend to be reactive with each other, for a simple example, baking soda mixed with vinegar).

Dunno, i'm not a chemist, nor have i analyzed the dye. Since i already have the silver and silver colloidal maker, it was just a matter of paying for the dye and dye remover, and a little time. So if it doesn't work, not a big deal.

Someone i talked to who is a chemist and who is very into making colloidal silver, suggested making silver oxide (so you just do distilled water with the silver wire), putting that into a spray bottle and spraying the garment well and then letting it dry on there. However, that won't be as potentially durable as the silver chloride/dyeing process.

[Jan Rezac]

I guess the procedure suggested here will not work. Silver chloride is not soluble in water (in fact it is well known for its extremely low solubility), so you are not working with a solution but just a very fine suspension of solid particles. There is no reason to expect that a dye will glue these particles to the fabrics. They will be easily removed by washing. The same applies to silver particles into which the chloride turns after some exposure to light.

I don't think the manufacturers treat a finished fabrics. There are two processes used I'm aware of: 1) adding some silver compound or silver particles into polymer the yarn is made of, and 2) coating some fibers with metallic silver (a small amount of these is then mixed with untreated ones).

[Anonymous]

Jan, the company that has become well known for silver chloride treatment, told me themselves that they have the manufacturers add their silver chloride in while the synthetic fabric is being dyed.

It's only polypropylene that is dyed while in a more raw state before being extruded into fibers. Obviously the above method will not work for polypropylene fabrics.

It seems like the silver chloride bonds more with the dye, which then bonds with the outside of the fiber material.

The companies that add silver into the material while it's still in liquid form, before it gets extruded into fibers, well their stuff doesn't work as well as the above company's process because you need all the silver on the outside of the fibers to do the job right (be antimicrobial). While in that company's (the one i talked to) process the silver chloride is on the outside of the fiber unlike some other treatments, it's still durable because it's embedded in with the dye, which is bonded with the fiber.

There are a lot of different kinds of silver treatments out there. The company i talked to is fast becoming the most popular and well known for silver treatment, and many of the major brands are incorporating their anti odor technology into their garments. Again, they also use silver chloride. There are certain hints that they are also using a electrolysis water suspension process too. For example, in their literature, they talk about how little silver is actually used. They say that they can treat x tons of fabric with just a tiny amount of silver.

The only way to do this with silver and silver chloride is to do a electrolysis water process of suspending ions and particles in same.

Well, i'm still going to try it.

[Anonymous]

I did a batch last night. One of the garments is a test sample garment. Originally a white colored, World Wide Sportman's brand wicking polyester ls baselayer type shirt.

Since i was treating about 1.5 to 2lbs of fabric, i decided to use only half a packet of the yellow iDYE POLY dye w/ color intensifier (by Jacquard), because i didn't want the fabric to get too dark of a yellow. The dye is not super uniform on the shirt, there are some areas a bit darker than others, but all in all for a first try not too bad. It's sort of a somewhat palish, primrose type yellow in most areas and more regular yellow in some others.

I've been wearing the test shirt since early morning (put on around 7 am). Today's high was about 85, with about 50% humidity around time of the highest temp. Hot enough for me to sweat without much activity. I wasn't that physically active today, but for about an hour, i walked briskly while pushing a young man in a wheelchair (total weight around 140 to 145 lbs). However, this was not outside, but in a somewhat climate controlled mall (some parts of it felt fairly warm and humid though). Either way, i did sweat off and on in it today.

At approx 9:30 pm EST, no noticeable odor has yet appeared (had my wife check it too). It is probably too early yet to really say anything definitively. I will wear the shirt over night, not shower tomorrow, run and work up a good sweat, and then tie it up in a grocery bag while it's damp and put it some place dark. Then check on it the next day. If no noticeable odor has appeared then we know the silver chloride is at least somewhat bonded to the shirt and/or dye.

After, i will wash it a few times with hot water and detergent ****(normally with a silver treated shirt i would wash cold to cool on gentle [quicker] cycle with mild soap based cleanser)****. Then rinse very well.

Then i will do the previous odor test again, wear it constantly a couple of days, sweat in it, bag it up, let it sit and stew and then test the odor. If after the washes and 2nd round of trying to stink it up, and no appreciable odor has built up, i think it would be safe to say that it's at least a semi-durable and effective silver treatment. Most likely more than Polygiene's temporary wash in treatment.

Approximate total cost of treatment under 7 to 8 dollars for 3 shirts and 2 baselayer pants (including dye remover, dye, distilled water, electricity, minuscule amount of silver used, salt, etc). Total prep time is about 5 hours (but most of that is making the silver chloride, which you can do while doing other things).

[Anonymous]

Along the lines of Dale's post, an important note. It's important that when you are making, storing, and using silver chloride in water suspension (Jan was right, "solution" is an incorrect term) to keep it away from light as much as possible. Especially stronger light (like direct sunlight) can convert it into metallic silver and chlorine gas, but even weaker light (indoor light etc) can do this over time. (High heat can also do this).

Chlorine gas is toxic.

[Anonymous]

Earlier today, i did not run as previously planned, but instead did another hour long walk pushing a young man in a wheelchair, but this time outside in hotter (high of 90* F) and more humid weather than the day previous (i also wore the shirt overnight, last night). At one point, i pushed the young man up a hill and worked up a heavy sweat.

As of 2:50 am EST, the shirt has a very slight, barely noticeable odor in the armpit areas and none any where else (note, no deodorant was applied yesterday morning).

I'm going to wear it sleeping again, run in the morning (i get to go to work later, later today, as compared to yesterday), and then bag it (put it in a grocery bag and tie it up while it's wet) till the next morning and see how it fares.

The real test will come in washing it with detergent and hot water a few times to test durability. If, after being washed more extremely, it performs similarly to how it has so far, then i would say it's a success and most likely is a semi-durable treatment–likely more durable than Polygiene's DIY wash in treatment, and perhaps approaching the professional and advertised as permanent for the life of the garment treatment. However, i will not put it through 100 successive washes to fully test that hypothesis.

I should mention that the shirt being tested, when initially treated, did NOT shrink appreciably that i could tell, which i was somewhat surprised by. Some had warned me that my garments would likely shrink when subjecting them to near boiling water for over a half hour.

[Author]

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