Titanium Sand/Snow Stakes

[Lawson Kline]

In soft sugary type bottomless sand, I can confidently say the version with no holes works better. I camp at a few places that has this type of sand and over the years I found the stakes with no holes to work better as they maximize their surface area..

It seems as if there is an even divide between holes vs. no holes.

Maybe this will change some peoples minds. The holes only reduce the stakes weight by 2 grams and cutting the holes cost more money..

[Dave @ Oware]

nm

[Lawson Kline]

I think Jim is saying the same as Roger. Holes were originally put in snow flukes to make them lighter and to make them look cooler/more technical. Since snow flukes are not used long enough for the holes to freeze, the holes add no value..

BUT, Since snow flukes are a multi-use gear item, they end up being used as tent stakes as well. And when used in this manner for a longer period of time they become difficult to remove because of the holes…

Oh and by the way. I am going to offer these to all BPL members at a discount when they come out shortly. This is gear deals after all :)

Thanks again,
Lawson

[Jason Mahler]

I would not have holes. A bit of sand flowing through the hole will do almost nothing, while freezing in snow would be brutal. Like you said, they are cheaper to make and it is 50/50 on holes and no holes. If there are no holes, then people can add them on their own if they want them. This is even better because they can put in whatever size they want.

[Roger Caffin]

> While I've never used stakes with holes, it makes sense to me that they would hold
> better in the sand.
? ? ? ? ?
I fail totally to understand this at all!
Perhaps removing all of the stake in a mass of holes would hold even better?

Cheers

[David Ure]

No, because then it wouldn't be a stake now would it.

Would you consider this a stake?

[Roger Caffin]

> No, because then it wouldn't be a stake now would it.
I don't know.
How many holes are needed before it ceases to be a stake? I don't know.
Irrelevant, anyhow, imho.

> Would you consider this a stake?
Yup, with or without the holes.
Mind you, I doubt the holes will change the weight very much, but they will weaken the stake.
(Looks like a Macpac stake with holes punched in it.)
Relevance?

Cheers

[Ken Larson]

Two instructional videos that show the application and use of "STAKES" above and below tree line in a snow environment……Total Time for both 14 min.

BELOW TREE LINE

ABOVE TREE LINE

[josh wagner]

i think people are making this out to be a bigger deal than it really is – overthinking this. it is, after all, a tent stake…

[David Ure]

"I don't know.
How many holes are needed before it ceases to be a stake? I don't know.
Irrelevant, anyhow, imho."

Sorry Roger, you first brought up the idea, so I would ask the same question to you.

"Yup, with or without the holes.
Mind you, I doubt the holes will change the weight very much, but they will weaken the stake.
(Looks like a Macpac stake with holes punched in it.)
Relevance?"

This stake has holes which enable snow to pass through, melt, and hold the stake tight. And let gritty sand pass through for additional holding power which, apart from those who say theoretically it shouldn't work, seems to work very well in practice. That stake is 10" long, 2" wide, and narrow in width with a curved flat surface. I suspect a few holes as illustrated would not weaken the stake appreciably in the field.

Maybe you can do an in depth review of stake design for BPL and out theory to practice. It would be boring but then opinions may become reality.

[David Ure]

"i think people are making this out to be a bigger deal than it really is – overthinking this. it is, after all, a tent stake…"

True, but Lawson is doing market research….;)

[Dave @ Oware]

nm

[Lawson Kline]

Good Point about the speed at which snow freeze's on the surface. But under the surface where these stake/anchors should be placed the process is much much slower..

[josh wagner]

would it make sense to keep a hole at the top in the center? that way you could put a ti stake halfway through the hole and then use that to pull out the other stake?

[S Long]

I vote no holes. Just the little ones for anchor line.

[Lawson Kline]

I was thinking more about these. While the titanium version works great. The prices for sheet goods is crazy expensive and I can make an aluminum version for about half the cost at the same weight… So would you rather have an aluminum version for $5 or a titanium version for $10?

[Stephen M]

Aluminium for me Lawson.

[Bob Gross]

You did not state anything about the strength of the aluminum version.

–B.G.–

[Lawson Kline]

Good Point. It would most likely be 7075-T6 so 83KSI… While not as strong as 6-4 Titanium at an equal thickness, I would be able to use a thicker material. I could jump up to .032" or even .040" without changing the weight.. So in theory twice as thick which means the aluminum stake could be as strong or even stronger for an equal weight. Though I am not sure how the math behind that pans out… But one thing is for sure. They would be half the cost.

[Jeff Gerke]

Half the price for Aluminum sounds good if weight and strength are close.

[Bob Gross]

"so 83KSI"

What does that mean?

–B.G.–

[Lawson Kline]

The Tensile Strength. 7075-T6 from my source specs 83,000 PSI. Titanium Grade 5 6AL-4V from my source specs 125,000 PSI. So there is a difference in strength. BUT aluminum is MUCH lighter… I am not sure the math but I think that the strength of the two are very close weight wise. For the Titanium stake I was going to use .020". For the Aluminum stake I can use .032" and the weight would be the exact same. So what I am saying is the strength should be very close to the same. Weight will be the same. The only real difference is cost. Aluminum is cheaper per lb which will make an aluminum version of the stake about half the cost..

[Bob Gross]

Ahh, so you meant to use "83,000 PSI" and instead you used "83KSI."

That's pressure.

In some regions, the soil is very rocky, so you start pounding a weak stake in until it hits a rock and bends. If you start with stronger and harder stakes, it will withstand the buried rocks. My point is that a titanium stake will survive a lot longer than an aluminum stake. In regions with soft soil, aluminum would be OK.

–B.G.–

[Lawson Kline]

Good point about rocky soil, BUT these are Sand/Snow Stakes….

[Bob Gross]

I get it.

Each stake will be laser-etched with a tiny label that says, "for use only in sand or snow."

–B.G.–

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