Extending my 3-season gear for snow camping

[Michelle A]

Hi everyone,

I'm interested in trying out snow camping in the Sierras next season and was wondering if it's possible to extend my 3-season gear if the conditions are good (ie March/April, sunny, starting to warm up). Of course, I would stick with an easier overnighter first to just try things out. Here's the gear I currently have and how I plan to extend its use. Any advice on what works and doesn't would be greatly appreciated.

Tent: Tartpent Stratospire 2. Use snow stakes.
Sleeping pad: Exped Synmat UL 7. Supplement with a full length foam pad.
Sleeping bag: REI sub-kilo 15 degrees, but realistically probably 25-30. Hot water bottle + wear all my layers listed below.

Clothes I normally wear to sleep in the summer:
Base layers: Ibex woolies 150 top + bottom, Smartwool mountaineering socks, wool balaclava, thin glove liners
Insulation: Ultralight down jacket
Outer: Pertex shield rain pants

Clothes I plan to add for the cold:
Insulation: Thick glove liners, softshell jacket + pants, wool beanie
Outer: Gortex-Pro shell jacket

Do you think this setup will work? I think I need more insulation for my feet. Any suggestions?

Probably once I decide if I enjoy snow camping, then I can consider getting some proper winter gear, starting with the sleeping bag and pad. I still probably wouldn't want to go in stormy weather, so a winter tent is last on my list.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

STRATOSPIRE>
Good tent choice for complete protection. (Bring pre-prepared clip-on guylines in your kit for storms.)

SUB KILO>
Good bag. It should be good to at least 20 F. when fully zipped and cinched
Add a down or synthetic puffy for more warmth. Take poly long johns for sleeping and making breakfast. Mornings are cold.

MATTRESS(ES)> Both together sound good.

Remember a good balaclava, thick "sleeping socks" and glove liners to be worn at night.

GTX PARKA>
Don't wear this in your bag. Instead zip it up, cinch down the hood and pull the sleeves inside. Then pull it over the foot of your bag to keep your feet warmer and resist wetting the foot of your bag from melting frost when the foot touches the tent wall (and it WILL).

[Rick Adams]

Your gear tweaks look good to me. My little crew are going camping in the Sierras in April and we are planning on three season gear. We have been several times in the dead of winter with a few bits of added insulation. The key, unless you wish to be tested, is to watch the weather report. If it's not snowing and not crazy cold or windy you will be fine. I talked to a ranger in the tahoe area about the snow and at least in the tahoe area, several usually late opening campgrounds are expexted to be open in late April. Talk to the ranger in the area you want to go and you will get a good idea whether you'll be ok with conditions.

Of course, I defer to Eric on all things snow related

[Paul McLaughlin]

If you aim for late April you generally get past the last of the real storms. March is usually fairly stormy. Plus longer days in April. also – LOTS of sunscreen, and a good sunhat with wide brim. Spring sun on the snow can be brutal.

[Michelle A]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll see if I can squeeze in an overnighter in late April/early May to at least try out the cooler temperatures.

[Mario Caceres]

Michelle,

I do enjoy and have done a fare amount of snow camping. Instead of using snow stakes I use "dead mans". This video I found on youtube can give you an idea of how to set them up. There are probably better videos out there, but at least this one will illustrate the concept.

I normally use small twigs that are already laying around from dead branches. You save some weight by not carrying any stakes, and at the end when you are ready to leave you just pull one of the ends of you guyline and the piece of wood remains buried (Hence the name dead man.)

[Aaron Sorensen]

If your REI sub-kilo is roomy for you, adding a 750 fill 40 degree 14 ounce EE Enigma for less than $200 would add another 15-20 degrees of warmth to your current set-up.

For my winter trips, I have a long 900-fill 15-degree bag that has a 63" width and weighs 38 ounces.
Because I would fit a 59" width bag easily enough, this thing only keeps me warm to 30 or just a tiny bellow that.

However, I throw my homemade 15-ounce quilt with 9 ounces of fill in and it fills the bag nicely and I can stay warm down to 5 degrees with ease.

[Michelle A]

The deadman technique looks awesome! I'll have to see how I could use a similar technique to stake the corners of the tent. Maybe I can tie a line to the corners so it can wrap around a branch similarly.

I do have a EE 20 degree quilt that is 18oz that I could use to drape over the REI sleeping bag. I was hoping that just wearing all my clothes that I would be bringing/wearing anyway could be sufficient enough to not have to bring the extra 18oz. I also chose the sleeping bag over the quilt to help prevent heat loss from moving during the night.

Probably for my first trip, I would aim for night temperatures around 15-25 degrees and slowly try out cooler temps over the next few years.

[Michael Gillenwater]

A few thoughts.

on the dead man anchors. best to give the snow time to consolidate and harden before putting tension on lines. the video did not seem to mention this important point.

on the overbag for the winter, consider using a synthetic quilt rather than down, as the outer bag will take the brunt of the moisture load.

[Bob Gross]

I don't see any mention of boots.

For summer, many people go in low-cut boots. As you start stretching out toward the colder months, you might want high top boots. They are warmer and will stand up to thin snow. If you head out in deep snow, then you want tall gaiters over your ankles and boots, along with either snowshoes or cross country skis.

–B.G.–

[Michelle A]

Thanks Bob for the mention of boots. I was mostly concentrating on sleeping-related gear. I do have gaiters that go up to my knees. For snowshoeing, I normally wear my Asolo TPS 520s. I am also currently looking at general leather mountaineering boots for other purposes, but I could wear those instead for extra warmth. I am fairly new to XC, but I would probably wear a semi-beefy leather boot.

[Bob Gross]

Part of the problem with cross country ski boots is that you can't find leather boots anymore. The best you can find are some high top synthetic leather boots, but they don't breathe worth a damn. The synthetic leather is good for stiffness and for waterproofness. But you have to dry them out in the evening so that the moisture doesn't freeze.

One friend of mine does this trick. He stores things inside the gaiters. He takes his spare gloves or climbing skins and stores those closed by the velcro of the gaiters. It adds more insulation for the ankles and it keeps those items thawed out better.

–B.G.–

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I winterized my TT Scarp 2 extensively, something not possible with your Stratospire 2.

But you should:
1. add nylon grosgrain ribbon stake loops around the hem of your fly (at least 4)

2. pre-make your guy lines with tent-end clips and LineLoc adjustment tensioners. (one line for every tie-out point) Maybe even add tie-out points if necessary.

[Franco Darioli]

I have no experience with the SS2 on snow but I have used it under heavy rain and used the somewhat similar Notch on and under snow.
It is very important to be able to set it taut.
The strength of a snow pitch will come from having the right tension on the Pitch Lock corners (the two raised corners) and the two apex guylines.
For the Pitch Lock corners I recommend having those tie-out lines fully extended so if you can you pull those taut by moving the stake or using a dead man anchor pulling on the guyline between the anchor and the fully extended tie-outs.
For the apex guylines I have 6' of line there so that I have plenty of room to wrap them around tree branches or stones or snow shoes.
Use separate stakes for this not the fly door stake.

Here is a video of how to set that corner (the video has the similar Scarp version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrxAASKe_ZI
Also add a guyline to the guyout point half a way up on the seam from the Pitch Lock to the apex seam.

[Andy F]

For the deadman anchors, I like to use 2 foot lengths of cord with bowline loops on each end. Toss a stick or long rock anchor on top of the cord before burying. After burying, clips both ends to the tent guyline loop. Tighten after 20 minutes or so. This way, you just pull one end of the anchor cord to tear down rather than having to dig up the anchor.

Breathable trail runners are fine in snow as long as you pair them with knee-high waterproof gaiters which fit snugly at the shoe along with GoreTex socks. Your shoes and GoreTex socks need to be oversized to accommodate the 1-2 pairs of thick socks. Tight shoes or socks will reduce blood flow in your feet to the point that the added insulation is worse than using thin socks. I think most people find that the lower limit for trail runners is between 0 and 20F. Below that, you want some type of either mukluk or mountaineering boot with removable liners. Footwear is a huge and important topic–plenty of reading and discussion and individual differences there.

[Michelle A]

Thanks everyone for the tips on the tent setup! I've also got a freestanding tent I can test out in the snow as well. December needs to come sooner!

[Justin Baker]

With the rocky goretex socks I would recommend ordering 2 sizes up to fit a thick wool sock in there. Nothing wrong with having them a little loose.

[Peter Boysen]

I just stumbled on this thread. This past march I used two of my EE quilts (20° and 40°) down to -15F, plus a down jacket and rain pants. I was just using a free standing tent with both of the doors completely open, so if you don't have that good of ventilation, a synthetic overquilt would definitely be preferable to the down one I used. I also used a Thermarest Xlite, which is definitely NOT a winter pad, but still worked amazingly well considering. I had to refill it with air once a night because it was just too cold to stay fully inflated, but when it was inflated enough to keep me off the ground I was quite warm. Of course, the foam pad makes that a much less fussy solution.

[Michelle A]

Thanks for your info! I definitely don't plan to camp in such cold temps, at least for now, but it's good to hear that it worked for you. I do have a free standing tent that I could use instead of the SS2, if that makes it a little simpler, especially since I'm still new to snow camping.

[Peter Boysen]

In my case we went with a freestanding tent since it was a trip in the Boundary Waters in Northern Minnesota, and for winter camping there they require camping out on the lake ice (when the ice conditions allow it). In those cases going with something that requires extensive guy lines can be a hassle, so I went freestanding. Of course when we got there it turned out there was a layer of slush under the top snow, so we had to find a campsite and dig 3 feet of snow out to find the fire grate, but eh, that's how winter camping goes sometimes.

Just for fun, here's a shot of my friend Jordan having just stepped out of the area we dug out for the campsite.

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