Golite SL3/tarp issues

[Randy Nelson]

I know people tarp in the winter but I'm sure doing something wrong. I've pitched my SL3 (fly only, I don't have an inner) twice on hut trips and both times were very windy.

The first time I pitched it tight to the snow and built up a little snow berm around the bottom to block the wind. It was nice and cozy inside but within an hour condensation built up on the walls and every gust would knock it down onto me. I bailed back into the hut.

I figure I need some air flow to reduce the condensation. The next time I pitched it so the windward side was tight with some snow again blocking the wind on that side. The leeward side I had up about 3" to get the needed airflow. Seemed OK when I was done pitching it. But when I came out later at night the wind had gotten stronger. When I opened the door to get in I could see the piece of firewood I was using to support the pole was covered in snow and it was swirling in from the gap at the bottom. I once again bailed back into the hut.

While I'd like to get into winter camping, right now my goal is to have a relatively lightweight emergency shelter for hut to hut trips and I was hoping to use the SL3 or maybe a flat tarp for that purpose. I'm sure I would have indeed survived both times. And that is the point. But it would have been a long uncomfortable night.

Any suggestions from winter tarpers?

[Stuart .]

Nice to see you here again, Randy. Whenever I've experienced condensation issues with shelters in winter, it's usually because I have battened down the hatches against the elements.

Last weekend I took my TrailStar out for its maiden winter voyage, coupled with an eVent bivy. I pitched the TS relatively high, with the center pole at 125cm. The tarp walls were close to, but not completely flush with the ground. I had stomped out a snow platform, so the snow in the surrounding area was about 12-15" higher than the bottom of the tarp.

The winds in Summit County roared during the day, but thankfully subsided somewhat by evening. Still, the snow was constant and I was aware of it sliding off the silnylon during the night. Around 3am the wind picked up again, and swirled around the tarp. Some spindrift came in through the (open) door and under one side of the tarp, but I was surprised how little was on top of the bivy by morning. About 8-10" snow had settled around the shelter when I got up.

I'll be curious what others say. This trip was useful for me as it reinforced the benefit of adequate ventilation, and the use of a WP/B bivy to keep the worst of the elements off my sleeping bag.

[Paul McLaughlin]

I've done a lot of snow camping in floorless tarpish shelters over the years. A pyramid, an MSR Twin peaks, and a floorless dome of my own making. I've had condensation issues in all to varying degrees. The best was the dome, because it had good high vents that were covered by awnings – one front and one back, so that I could always have at least one open (on the downwind side), even in a blizzard. The pyramid was the worst – no vents. The twin peaks has a little vent on one end and you can open the top of the door if it's not snowing, but sealed up it gets moderately bad. The saving grace on the Twin peaks is that you can get tight – and I mean TIGHT – if you have adjustable poles and good stakes. That means you don't get a lot of frost falling down since it doesn't move as much in the wind.

My feeling in general is that this kind of shelter is great for spring snow camping – which is when I go – with warmer days and more sun to dry things out if they get a little damp at night. For real winter, I think a double wall shelter is the way to go. With a nice breathable inner,and the fact that the fabric of the inner is warmer than the outer, you'll get less condensation and be warmer as well. Single wall, WPB tents can be good as well – I know a lot of folks like their Biblers for the winter. You can cook inside a Bibler with a hanging stove and get it warm enough to drive moisture out.

[Randy Nelson]

Hi Stuart. I think a bivy might be the best way to deal with it. I'm sure a 4 season tent would be the most comfortable way to spend the night but for now, I'm only looking for something to use as a backup on hut trips in case I have to spend the night outside. Maybe it's just use the SL3 for that and if it's a tough, uncomfortable night if it does occur, just deal with it. And I think it would be just fine if it wasn't for the strong winds. But not much point counting on that around here.

I've never used a double wall shelter with a mesh interior. I wonder how that would work in this scenario. I had the inner for the SL3 but sold it as I never used it. I'd think the mesh would keep most of the blowing snow and failing condensation of of me. If that worked I could make a something like a bug net inner to use inside of it. I also have an SL3 with a mesh skirt sewn on. Could then pitch the tarp as high as possible. Just depends on how much the skirt stops and how blocked it gets. I think I'll pitch it during the next storm and see how that does.

[David Goodyear]

I've use my modified GL-3 for 4 winters now and can deal with the frost up fairly well. You may need a tighter pitch. I added a snow skirt on 5 sides. after I have it pitched and snow on the skirts, I dig out the inside by throwing snow up against each side. This makes even a bad pitch tight. Then,I dig a sleeping platform and kitchen and a foot well. You can get creative if you are camping in deep snow. I have it modified so that I can use one center pole for snow or 3 " umbrella " poles for an ice pitch.

Don't give up on it, I don't like tarps in the winter – too much snow drift in my face.

Dave

[Stuart .]

Randy, everyone I've spoken to leaves their mesh inner at home during winter. It might cut some spindrift but it's not enough to stop the wind and hence won't provide any extra insulation, unlike a solid ripstop nylon inner. However it might protect you from a frozen condensation shower when the tarp inevitably moves.

Perimeter mesh fixed to a tarp runs the risk of freezing to the ground and tearing when you break camp. But adding a sod cloth to a tarp would make a significant difference in eliminating spindrift, at the cost of increased condensation if the upper vents don't move sufficient air on their own.

[Randy Nelson]

Thanks Dave. I hadn't really considered digging down for a sleeping platform although I've read about that technique. More volume should mean less condensation. That seems like a good idea when in deep snow. The snow skirts idea seems like it would have the same results as my first example where I pitched it tight and piled snow on the perimeter?

Stuart, I had to go google sod cloths. :) Is that really different than pitching the shelter lower or building up snow around the edges? The SL3 does have 3 vents but you wouldn't know it from the condensation the first time I tried, that's for sure.

[Scott Ireland]

I have an SL3 as well, and have used it in some pretty cold camps, but not in snow yet. However, the one time I tried pitching the walls lower to keep it warmer inside, it ended up soaking wet inside…thank goodness I had a decent bivy or I would have been soaked. The next time I pitched it higher, with a five inch gap all around…voila, no condensation at all. A bit chillier, but not too bad, and dryer for sure.

One other thing…if you don't want to take the mesh inner, which I don't either in winter, what about the bathtub floor? It has a short, 5-6" wall, that helps keep moisture from blowing in on you, while still allowing the higher pitch and ventilation.

[Randy Nelson]

I don't have the inner or the floor. It came with the inner but I never used it so I sold it on Gear Swap. I think I'll try digging deeper to see if that helps. Seems like it should. I have a couple of hut trips coming up in January and plan on bringing the SL3 and an 8×10 tarp to play around with. It's often really windy here so I don't see any choice but to pitch them tight. Which means I really need to have more volume to reduce condensation. I'll report back how I do after the trips.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

While I've used tarps for winter camping (mainly 10' X 10') I never was completely satisfied with them in any configuration I used.

As you've mentioned condensation happens when buttoned up AND when I left some vents front and rear.
Then there was flapping in high winds once even though I had the center re-sewn slightly arced in a caterary cut.

My "best solution" came with a solo double wall tent and now I'm looking forward to winter camping in my new Tarptent DW.

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