EPIC durability

[John Brown]

Is it epic? Seriously… Is it similar to a DWR in that it wears off over time? What happens when you wash it or conversely, when it gets dirty? Am thinking about buying the OWARE bivy, but no experience w/ EPIC. Thanks!

[paul johnson]

Epic is not like a DWR finish. The fibers are encapsulated b/f weaving. Supposedly, acc. to mfr’s, it does not wash out.

When my Epic hiking pants get dirty, or smeared with dirt, trail grime, oils, food stuffs, etc. from the palms of my hands, etc., water droplets tend to “flatten out” on the fabric & appear to “wet” the fabric, but still not soak in very much at all. In other words, my skin underneath “feels” like it’s wet, but is not actually wet. Pressing a paper towel up against the inside of the fabric did not cause any water to be absorbed by the paper towel. After machine washing, per mfr’s instructions, the water once again “beads up” like when they were new. Now, having said all this, personally I still don’t trust Epic alone to provide all night protection in a hvy rain or torrential downpour. Perhaps it’s the typical mfr’s similar disclaimer about Epic’s water resistance, “under all but the most extreme conditions”, that causes me to feel this way.

This is my experience with my Epic fabric trail cargo pants from LLBean. I should point out that this fabric is significantly “heavier” than the Epic fabric BD uses in its Lightsabre Bivy.

My Epic windshirts from Wild Things hold up well in mod to hvy rains for extended periods without wetting through (unlike my lighter weight DWR windshirts from GoLite and Montane, which are more breatheable than the Epic, but wet through in a short period of time).

[John Brown]

Thanks Paul, any other ideas about EPIC’s long-term durability?

[paul johnson]

Sorry. I haven’t had them long enough to give a knowledgeable estimate. For what it’s worth, my guess would be that it would be comparable to other similar light weight fabric. Again, this is just a guess on my part. At this point, they don’t show any signs of excessive wear for the amount of use that they’ve had.

[Joshua Levy]

I’ve used a Bibler Winter Bivy, which is made of entirely of Epic (top and bottom), for a while now and been quite impressed with its durability. At first I was worried about rocks etc. cutting the fabric on the bottom, but it’s held up well. After 20-30 nights of use (directly on the ground) it did get a couple small holes, which I was able to repair with silicone sealant and bits of fabric.

My guess is the Epic is actually more durable than the silnylon bottoms on other lightweight bivys. (Has anyone compared their durability?) If so, it makes an all-Epic bivy an attractive option, since the Epic, while not fully waterproof, works fine on wet ground, provided you avoid sleeping directly in a puddle.

[Nicholas Couis]

Paul, Do you think that the extra weight of the WildThings Epic windshirt is worth it.I’ve washed my Golite windshirt once and the DWR IS COMPLETELY GONE.Do any of the after market treatments hold up more than one wash using normal washing powder,Thanks

[paul johnson]

Nicholas,

Make sure that no detergent is used in the washing of DWR finished clothing (and maybe also this applies to Epic fabric as well). Detergents contain a surfactant (a “wetting” agent) to allow non-water soluble (non-polar compounds) oils/fats to be more easily wetted and emulsified, and thus removed from clothing. Use of detergents will probably, in effect, remove the DWR “finish” of the clothing. Just use plain soap, or (I use) ReviveX high-tech fabric cleaner.

First-off, my limited experience with some DWR shirts:

I haven’t had the Montane Aero DWR shirt out in extended mod-heavy rains. In somewhat similar conditions (10-20min light rain – this was not a “side-by-side” test, i.e. the windshirts were worn on diff days in somewhat similar rainy conditions), it seemed to perform better than three GoLite windshirts – meaning that the Montane Aero did not wet through, whereas the ’05 Wisp has wet through – several times. I’ve tried the ’04 Wisp – used only a few times, the ’05 Wisp, and the ’05 Ether. The ’05 Wisp has seen a lot of use. Areas that have had contact with my hands (particularly the cuffs & near-wrist area) wet through very quickly after some use (oil + sweat from skin/hands???). This happened within probably (i didn’t “keep score”) 2 weeks of daily use (donning+doffing 2-3 times per day). I have treated this with Revive-X DWR treatment per the instructions on the bottle, but I haven’t had it out in the rain since – it’s too hot right now for general use & I use the Epic windshirts for rain. I do feel that this treatment should work well, because I’ve used it on some non-DWR nylon trail cargo pants to “create” a DWR finish & it has worked fairly well.

[Note: Interesting, but readily understandable, the areas that “wet” through dry very quickly, several times faster, than the areas that still have the water drops “beading up” on them – volume-to-surface-area issue i would imagine. Sometimes, when there is no wind, even 10-20min after the “wetted” areas have dried, I can still find small beaded-up droplets of rain on the sleeves or areas not in flat contact with my skin. This is not a performance issue, other than the shirt wetted through in places, I only mention it because I found it interesting, i.e., it is not something I thought about ahead of time, and so gave me a slight chuckle when I noticed what was happening. I say “chuckle”, b/c i found it amusing that the areas of the windshirt which had “compromised” anti-wetting, were faster drying, and so “performed” better in that respect. it makes sense though that this would be the case.]

WildThings Epic Windshirts:

I like these (both the hooded & hoodless versions – supreme craftsmanship on both). Definitely much more water resistant than the DWR shirts, in my experience. I feel that they are worth the extra 3-4oz (for the hoodless version, over a hoodless windshirt). The Epic windshirts don’t seem to be quite as breathable as some of the DWR windshirts. Thus far, this has not proven to be a limiting factor in their use for me. It may be for you.

The Bottom Line:

I primarily like the WildThings Epic windshirts since, not only do they function as windshirts, but also as raingear (i wouldn’t use them as a sole means of keeping dry in the rain, however – just as supplemental raingear). If you carry other raingear, then maybe the DWR windshirts are a better choice for you instead of the Epic windshirts. I mostly just use a SpinPoncho-T for my primary rain gear, so in cooler/cold weather I like the Epic windshirt to keep my forearms dry (and therefore warmer) in extended or heavy rain. If I happen to be using an ID eVENT rain jacket, then, if I felt the need to also pack a windshirt , I would use one of the non-Epic windshirts. In reality, in these situations, i don’t pack both – i leave the windshirt at home – i can ventilate the eVENT rain jacket by unzipping it if necessary.

As far as my choice amongst the DWR windshirts that I’ve used, the “hands-down” winner would be the Montane Aero. Although maybe it sounds somewhat contradictory (maybe its fabric & treatment account for it???), it seems both more breathable, and more water resistant than the GoLite windshirts I’ve used.

Hope this info helps.

[Nicholas Couis]

The reason i washed the windshirt in normal washing powder is that during long trips thru 3rd world countries clothing can get very dirty and the breathability suffers.I would have to carry the special soap just for this and also there are few drying machines.Without putting in a dryer after washing i find the DWR isn’t activated as well and gradually looses it’s efficientcy.

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