Paradox Packs Evolution pack system review

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

You can get a standard frame and trim it to desired height, or else use a frame with extensions. I'm 6'1 and find 26 fine for all but the heaviest loads. I would no have qualms about using it for everything. I've also used the 24 and 28 , and both are fine as well, but the 24 has limits of load. The trimmed variant is slightly lighter. I don't find the frame height problematic with either setup. Take my comments for what they are, I am the vendor, but also someone who had put a lot of time in using it as well, in just about every form I can imagine.

[Michael K]

Dave…..or anyone else who has used this pack. How do you think this pack would feel for some mild scrambling and climbing (class 3-4)? I'm asking because for my intended usage it'll be needed to haul in 40-60lbs of gear for week long trips and then it'll be used for daily peak bagging and scrambling. Should I expect it to be very similar to internal frame packs in terms of not feeling like a typical external frame pack making balance tricky when scrambling?

[David Chenault]

You'll find it more stable and body-hugging than just about any burly internal with which I've had experience, due to the frame articulation and close center of gravity. The only thing which holds the Paradox back in this area is size, there's no way for a 14" wide pack to feel as agile as a 10" wide one.

[Edward Jursek]

Heavyhauleingackraftinghunters.com is not what I have paid money for. This article and a number of other recent articles show a very identifiable drift into areas away from the what I think is the core mission of BPL and why I pay money to belong here. I see a lot of editorial space and staff energy being directed into areas like pack rafting, heavy packs, hunting, biking, etc. Perhaps the editors and staff have become bored with UL and SUL and moved to other pursuits? These kinds of articles more properly belong in the "Off Piste" forums and not worthy of a feature article.

[Misfit Mystic]

Sorry Edward, but I must disagree with your sentiments, and I find the snarkiness somewhat silly. Many of us take trips to places where SUL won't get it done; the terrain and conditions are too difficult, the required gear too heavy and extensive. Spend some time traversing terrain in Alaska or western Canada and you can appreciate what I mean. Not to mention, someone has to build and maintain the trails where you endeavor to pursue your SUL ethos, but I suppose we'll just disregard the madness of trying to pack in tools with a SUL pack? Maybe we should never travel into dry climates where multi-gallon water carries are required? Perhaps we should only traverse areas where a resupply is merely a hitch-hike away? My ultralight glacier/high mountain gear weighs more than an SUL baseweight, but your not moving through an extensively glaciated area without axe, crampons, harness, rope, prussiks, etc. SUL has it place: on a boring, well-trodden, sanitized trail. Which means the SUL hiker misses the wildest, most remote of destinations, the places where wilderness is still truly wild. I'll pass…

[Tony Ronco]

I think it is fair to say that in terms of BPL's overall membership, both SUL and Hunting out of a Pack (HOOAP?) are both niche interests: Apples & Oranges.

But given that they are both on BPL they do have a commonality in the interest of shaving weight in order to enjoy their pursuits more … but apparently not all realize those pursuits are different. (And that difference will inevitably result in different gear selections)

SUL is probably the bigger niche here (or at least has seen the most print on how "low can you go", in addition to having its own forum) … so it likely there are more practitioners with that mind-set, here at BPL.

If the HOOAP folks had their own BPL forum (and not be hidden in the "Other Activities" forum), then the SUL folks would have an advance warning on content they are reading if they decide to click into it … no Apples to Oranges confusion.

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In reference to the post above for needing a big load hauler for some epic remote off-trail Alaskan adventure (non-hunting trip): there are many possible choices that are significantly lighter than the pack reviewed. For one possibility, we can look to Andrew Skurka's Alaska-Yukon Expedition where he decided to use an ULA Epic pack which with the 70 Liter (!!) dry bag he used, weighs 43.4 oz. (= 40 oz for the pack + 3.4 oz for the dry bag: quite a bit lighter that the the 58.6 oz listed for the pack in this review … and even though it is a breakthrough pack for backpack hunting, as David himself wrote his review: "The utility of the Evolution for the non-hunting backpacker is a bit less clear" …)

Also in reference to the post above "SUL has it place: on a boring, well-trodden, sanitized trail" (*smile* snarkiness aside, even though being snarky is admonished earlier in that post). One only has to look to John Muir himself as an excellent counterexample. Almost all of his ramblings were off trail (as were no formal trails)

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As for my self, I haven't gone on a backpack hunting trip – but respect those that do and their way of connecting to the outdoors.
… and when I do occasionally go SUL I'm either in a friendly, fun competition with friends, or going on a cross country Sierra trip where I want to be fast & nimble.

"The more you know, the less you need" – Yvon Chouinard

HYOH. (which I realize might now, have two meanings: Hike Your Own Hike, and Hike Your Own Hunt ;-)

[Jerry Adams]

I, like Edward, am not interested in heavy packs like that

But there were some good ideas about packs in general

That video that showed taking the pack apart – it's inconceivable that there could be so many straps on one pack – amazing!!! – good for some entertainment value watching it – the designer must have a strap fetish : )

[Roman Vazhnov]

As i can see, Paradox in dry bag hauler configuration weights around 49 oz:
http://seekoutside.com/lightweight-backpacks/
There is also 4800 cu in ultralight combo which weights 48 oz:
http://store.seekoutside.com/paradox-evo-ultralight-combo-4800-roll-top/
So weights are comparable, but Paradox carries much better, judging by this review.

[andrew flux]

I am very interested in the review and enjoyed the thought and effort put into it.I have no interest in going SUL or even UL although I have learned much from these reviews. A sub 4lb pack(pack not load) is light for me and one that can carry a load is rare and one that is as modular as this is even rarer unless you go custom.
I have shaved off a good 10lbs from my load over the 2 years I have been on BPL much of it from product reviews and the articles for things that were not strictly SUL/UL.
I know sometimes wit and sarcasm can be hard to convey in a post but reading some of the previous comments about this review smacks a little bit of elitism,something that seems to pervade the sport and pushes people away that might not be as commited to UL but enjoy backpacking "light" as in not humping the traditional 30lb pack but closer to 20, yes that's light to me!! AND I LIKE IT :-)
If a product is not for you then maybe you should just click on the next one and if you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion then why post.
It is BackPackingLight not Backpackinglessthan4000g yes that is a little wit and sarcasm :-)
Thanks for ALL the work BPL does I learn a little from most of the things you do.
Andy

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

Yes, we have some sub 3 lb options available. Using the lighter frame saves 3 ounces and the lighter bag material saves another 5 – 6 ounces. Not using a Talon compression panel saves weight as well. Another alternative is using a lightweight dry bag, like an Evac dry bag and you get sub 3 lbs, which is comparable to most of the lighter / lightly framed packs. We take a very holistic view of reducing weight, while not sacrificing performance, or longevity. For instance, our pack bags are sort of large, and this in itself helps to save weight by reducing compression sacks and stuff many people use to get gear in smaller pack bags. It also reduced the Beverly Hillbilly affect as well. If you don't need all the volume, don't compress stuff as much. There is no harm in under compressing sleeping gear. We also choose to use materials that do not gain much water weight.

As always, we will continue to push the envelope on weight, while trying to balance usability and durability.

Thanks for all the comments.

Kevin

[sean neves]

Couldn't disagree more with you on this, Edward. Subscribed for the last six years. Typical base-weight sub-10lbs, etc, so I have the street cred. I also do massive un-resupplied packrafting trips too. I have been known to haul bikes in really weird ways. Not everybody works outside the way that I do so I don't expect the world to bend to my ways. You shouldn't either. This is really useful information for a lot of people. The gram-weenie stuff is boring now for me. Been there, done that.

Great work, Dave. One of the best articles on here in some time.

[Anthony Weston]

Enjoyed the review. If I have to carry water or I'm on a long trek the paradox suspension may be useful.

[Anthony Weston]

Part of the reason I enjoyed the article was the honesty and thought that went into the article. I liked that the author wrote,

" the best contemporary UL internal frame packs can carry close to if not more than 40 lbs, and do so well. These same packs hover around 2 lbs. While I don’t see any ready ways for Paradox to cut weight from the current design without impeding either durability or function, I nonetheless need a compelling reason to carry the extra pound and a half which the Evolution frame represents. The best answer to this question lies not in the brute ability to transfer weight throughout the frame system, but in the comfort with which a given pack does so."

I ended up purchasing an Paradox Frame that I paired with a Zimmerbuilt backpack 13 oz. I like a narrow pack, dimensions similar to zpacks blast.
The Paradox frame is the most comfortable backpack I have every used, a thing of beauty.

I'll do a review later and compare it to the HMG Porter which I also own. A large part of buying a backpack is personal taste, kind of like buying a car so to each his own. I've owned a GG Gorilla, a ULA Omh, Circuit and Airx, an HMG Windrider and a Porter. My goto backpack is a 13 oz Zpacks Blast with stays and I usually carry about 18 lbs with food and water on a two night backpack, my base weight with a few optional items is about 5.5 lbs. I'm planning a longer trip without resupply and I plan to carry about 30 lbs, not sure if I'll take the Porter or the Paradox.

I also have an injury that doesn't allow me to put weight on my shoulders.

The Paradox has the more comfortable hipbelt and the better suspension system.
I like that I can used a hydration sack outside the pack.
It can hug the body or I can loosen the shoulder straps and lean it back like an external frame. Does the comfort justify the extra weight? Can the frame be stripped down even more?

My HMG Porter with custom water side pockets and hipbelt pockets weighs 35 oz, the Paradox with Zimmerbuilt weighs 51 oz, 16 oz more. If I add a golite infinity framesheet to the Porter then the Porter weighs 41 oz. The framesheet is extremely strong; it has 6 tiny metal rods with diameter of the lead in a pencil encased in plastic an molded to the proper shape.

The ParadoxZimmerbuilt does handle the Bearikade Expedition better.

Nothing left to do but load em up and see which I like better after a full day of hiking. I also could strip it down a bit but not sure I'd want to lose the functionality.

[David Chenault]

Looks good Anthony, hope it works for you. I look forward to thoughts about comparing the Paradox and Porter, and what difference the framesheet makes in the later.

Kevin T and I have been knocking around a few ideas about how to make the Paradox lighter still, but that will be a long running project.

[Richard Nisley]

Anthony,

You said, " If I add a golite infinity framesheet to the Porter then the Porter weighs 41 oz."

Do you plan on using the Golite infinity frame in addition to the HMG Porter's two aluminum stays or in place of them? Also, the Porter's pad sleeve is sealed; how do you plan to install the Golite Infinity frame?

[Anthony Weston]

Not sure how I will use the framesheet. It would be easy enough to sew in a pocket of some kind to hold it. So far I just put it in loose in addition to the stays went around the block with it to test it with a heavier load and did flatten the load against my back and give some rigidity.

[David Chenault]

I number of updates to the Paradox system/line have gone live since I wrote the article.

I got my hands on the improved harness last week. It addresses all the concerns I had. The inner face is lined with lighter 3D mesh, and the foam is more flexible.

An UL frame made of lighter tubing is available in all configurations. I have not used this. Kevin Timm with Paradox says it can be 3+ ounces lighter (30% or so) and doesn't really give up any functional durability.

They've also been doing custom bags in a variety of configurations and fabrics, including hybrid cuben.

Paradox also just came out with a version they're calling the Unaweep. It integrates the frame into the bag, making the whole deal simpler and saves quite a bit of weight. As the weight breakdown table in the article shows, this is the one obvious area to do so. According to Kevin, a 4800 Unaweep with the UL 26 inch tall frame, done in VX-07, is a hair over 2.5 pounds.

Conversations with Kevin got me thinking about the possibilities of this integrated frame, and this past week I built one for myself. It's not perfect, but it is quite a bit smaller and tighter than the pack I tested for the article. In 1000 denier cordura (what I had on hand), the 24 inch full strength frame, and the stock harness and hipbelt in comes in under 3 pounds. This for a ~4000 cubic inch pack. I'll be taking it to the Grand Canyon next week.

What drove that decision was the hipbelt. It only took a half mile of a training hike to be reminded how, for me, the Paradox belt absolutely blows everything else out of the water. For light loads (sub 35 pounds) I can get a traditional internal belt, stay, and lumbar pad rig to work just fine. Just fine meaning I can carry it 10 hours a day for a week and never think about my pack. For weights above that, the Paradox is just way better than anything else. Which makes taking it on this upcoming trip an easy choice.

[Michael K]

Anthony, what xpac material is your zimmerbuilt bag made from? Is it VX21?

[Anthony Weston]

VX21 Xpac for the back side and bottom of the pack and a lighter weight VX07 for the front

[Doug Coe]

I doubt I'll ever have a need for this pack, or want to spend the money for one, but I love seeing such innovative design thinking. And it's great to have choices, external frame systems as well as internal ones.

Thank you for the fantastic review, and I love seeing all the photos of it, especially taken apart.

That Zimmerbuilt bag at different heights with and without the bear can is cool too as I mostly backpack in the Sierras in black bear country.

[Luke Schmidt]

I just got back from another trip in the Guadalupe Mountains with an Exped Lighting. At 38 oz its on the heavy side but its the pack I keep grabbing. I have a 28 oz pack but I never take it to the Guads. The reasoning is very simple, no other pack I have has such a comfortable hipbelt. My recent custom Zimmer pack was close but unfortunately is too short for me.

I'm as into spread sheets and gram counting as the next guy but when you measure your water load in gallons a 5 or 10 extra ounces for a pack that fits better is a no brainer.

[Dave P]

Thank you for the review, been looking for a sub-4lbs external frame which can handle 100+lbs worth of weight.

I've become a gram-weenie after some bush-whacking last year and made slow progress. Noticed a huge change after lightening the load. Going into the bush is fine, the problem is trying to find a pack which can haul stuff out of the bush.

I enjoy my 2-lbs backpack for trail-walking, but it doesn't hold all the necessary equipment I need for hunting. When you're hauling carcasses, every gram matters; but no one is going to go anywhere if they don't have the proper backpack for the weight load. While trail-walking, there is a much more forgivable error of margin.

Tried a frameless designed for grouse-hunters, and it became obvious because of its design the folks who fell in love with it only went out on day-hunts; not over-nighters, let alone a week-long expedition. Figured out the money would had been better spent on a GoLite Jam than that thing.

Would like to see a review of the Krux frame though.

[Author]

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