“Faux-dini”: 2.3 oz. Windshirt, <$15 – Initial Review and Sourcing

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Kat

No worries.

Yes, we try to cater to minors and their parents as well. I'll ignore the suggestion that the internet-age kids have seen worse – probably quite true of course. But what else can I do?

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

> Well intentioned efforts, of the kind that the road to hell is paved with,

Let me recount a (true) story.

Way back when transistors and integrated circuits were new and assembled by operators with a microscope and a micro-spot-welder, Motorola had a plant in Malaysia. They had rows and rows of girls doing the work every day (in clean room conditions). They were taken to task by some well-meaning Americans for the pitiful wages they were paying the girls (ladies). Their reply to this was illuminating.

Yes, they paid low wages – on an American scale.

But these girls had never had a job before. Any money their men earned was usually spent either on beer or on gold jewellry for the girl to wear – to enhance the man's status of course. Meanwhile, their children had little food, little clothing, no education, and no medical care. A self-perpetuating poverty loop.

So Motorola hired these girls and put their wages into a bank account in the girl's name only. The men did not even know what the girls were earning. The girls had this explained very carefully to them when they were hired. Yes, there were queues for the jobs.

With this money the girls (mothers) were able to feed and clothe their children, and get them schooling and medical attention. The poverty loop was broken.

Cheers

[Valerie E]

Sigh. I REALLY don't want to be all "Holden Caulfield" here, but…

Interesting that the fundamental principle of the Anglo-American justice system is being ignored by some people here — who believe that the Chinese manufacturer is "guilty until proven innocent" of trademark infringement.

Now, to be honest, when I ordered the jacket I couldn't make out any logo in the listing photos (small laptop), so I was a bit surprised to see the Jack Wolfskin on the chest. I guess I'm a bit naïve, but my first thought was that this was either a factory over-run, or a factory run that was rejected by the contracting company (Jack Wolfskin). I guess I just don't think that the "Jack Wolfskin" brand is expensive or prestigious enough to merit counterfeiting (rampant for uber-luxury goods, such as Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc.) Yeah, I know The North Face is counterfeited, but they are a world-wide "status" brand, regardless of widespread criticism of them on BPL. If I were a counterfeiter, I would make those same jackets and slap a Patagonia logo on them; then I could sell them on eBay for $40-$20 and make $38-$48 profit (aot selling them for $12 with a Wolfskin logo and making $10 profit). I'm think you're grossly underestimating the intelligence and business acumen of the Chinese clothing manufacturers, my friends! :~)

I support Roger 100% in his role, and I'm really dismayed at the bitter flavor of the criticism directed towards him. In fact, although I am still somewhat new to BPL, he seems to be quite laissez faire overall, and (bless him) often includes an element of humour in his postings. Mary Poppins was right: a spoonful of sugar DOES make the medicine go down!

I am heartened to see that some folks out there see the complexities involved in the global economy. We should all be thinking more about these issues and trying to put forward "best practices", while still understanding that our values may NOT be the only legitimate ones out there…The older I get (and I'm getting pretty old!) the more I realize that "black & white" thinking is simply irrelevant. If the issues were that simple, they'd've been solved a long time ago.

Respectfully, I propose that the ethics discussion be re-routed to "Chaff" where it really belongs, and I hope someone will set up a thread on this subject there.

And BTW, as a woman, if I HAD TO CHOOSE between a miserable factory job and working in the sex trade — I'd take the factory EVERY time! The risks from lead/cloth dust seem laughable compared to the risks of violence/disease from men who think I'm less human than they are. Now THERE'S an issue that needs more action from the West!!!!!!

[scree ride]

If I make my money off of cattle, I want a lot of cattle.
If you make money off of your children, you want a lot of children.

The system perpetuates itself while churning out an endless supply of land fill material.

[Ian]

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[Kattt]

Deleted.

[Rick M]

del

[Ian]

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[Kattt]

Edited

That cat better watch out

[Ian]

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[Ian]

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[Kattt]

Troubling cat. And shameless promotion of my picture .

[John S.]

BPL = Bi Po Lar

[BlackHatGuy]

I really think it's time to abort this thread, and I'm not just shooting from the hip here. There's definitely been a change in climate, and I'm not convinced that REI had anything to do with it. So it's time to move on, by God. (Did I get them all?)

[Paul Magnanti]

[Ian]

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[Kattt]

Deleted.
Cat picture instead.

[Ian]

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[Anonymous]

"With this money the girls (mothers) were able to feed and clothe their children, and get them schooling and medical attention. The poverty loop was broken."

Makes the point quite well. There is a saying, Japanese in origin I believe but not entirely sure on this, that Americans see the world as they want it to be, whereas Asians see it as it is. Worth pondering? I personally believe that seeing the world as we want it to be can potentially lead to a better life for all of us, but that impulse needs to be tempered by a cold, hard appreciation of the world as it is, and not to confuse the two when it comes to taking action.

[Anonymous]

"Now THERE'S an issue that needs more action from the West!!!!!!"

Now just a doggone minute there!!! :[ That sex trade you're badmouthing is the foundation of our multi billion dollar advertising industry. ;0) ;0) ;0)

[Anonymous]

"The system perpetuates itself while churning out an endless supply of land fill material."

Now that is an interesting perspective on the plight of people on the edge of survival. Children as landfill material, if I'm understanding you correctly. I'm at a loss for words.

[Justin Baker]

Tom, I think he was referring to the massive amount of garbage generated when people buy disposable or throw-away items, including cheap outdoor clothing with a short lifespan. By buying high quality clothing, it lasts longer and you throw away less.

[Anonymous]

"I really think it's time to abort this thread, and I'm not just shooting from the hip here. There's definitely been a change in climate"

We've got enough censorship going on around here as it is. I propose that instead the moderator move it over to The Great Carbon Flame War, where Tallbloke can analyze it and determine whether or not it represents a troubling long term trend, or is just a BiPoLar short term oscillation.

[Anonymous]

"Tom, I think he was referring to the massive amount of garbage generated when people buy disposable or throw-away items, including cheap outdoor clothing with a short lifespan. By buying high quality clothing, it lasts longer and you throw away less."

Thanks for putting a positive slant on his post. Hopefully you're on the mark. I admit to a tendency to see the dark side of humanity at this point in my life. Guess I've been around too long, and maybe seen too much darkness. Time for the landfill? ;0)

[And E]

As Valerie said " I guess I'm a bit naïve, but my first thought was that this was either a factory over-run, or a factory run that was rejected by the contracting company (Jack Wolfskin)"

And I'm inclined to agree. If anybody will bother to check out the eBay listing, nowhere does it say that it's a Jack Wolfskin jacket, other than in logo in the picture. It's simply advertised as a wind jacket.

As many have mentioned, the logo is on the "wrong" side. This could have been the factories mistake, and the jackets they produced could have been rejected/canceled by Jack Wolfskin and they are selling it to make up the loss, while not explicitly advertising it as a Jack Wolfskin jacket.

Of course, they could be counterfeit as well, the point is, none of us know. But, at the price and the fact that they aren't trying to exploit the brand name in the listing makes it seem more likely that it's a overrun/canceled/mistake production.

[Author]

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