“Faux-dini”: 2.3 oz. Windshirt, <$15 – Initial Review and Sourcing

[James holden]

just to add … some companies sweep it all under a rug …

heres what you want to see … from MEC

AUDITED MEC-BRAND FACTORIES WITH UNACCEPTABLE VIOLATIONS
At the end of 2012, 13% of our audited factories in the past 18 months (10 of 79) had unacceptable violations. This number has decreased from 17% that were found at the end of 2011.

Our 2012 audit year noted four factories with new unacceptable violations. Two of these factories resolved their violations and were confirmed complete through a verification audit. Two other factories that had unacceptable violations in 2011 have also remediated these violations. MEC chose to phase out of two factories with unresolved violations. At the end of 2012, ten factories were left with outstanding unacceptable violations.

Seven of these ten factories restricted MEC auditor access. In two of the seven factories, we have started collaboration initiatives with other brands to share social compliance audits and remediation plans. Once we have completed the shared audits and see needed improvements, we will take these two factories off the unacceptable list. We are in communication with two factories who only allowed a partial audit. We are working with them to come to an agreement for the audit scope. At the same time, we are seeking other sourcing options, should either of the factories not wish to comply with the STEP program. As for the other three facilities restricting the STEP audit, we understand the risks associated, as we have been able to visit the facilities. We are working with the Product Manager to find new suppliers that will participate fully in our STEP program.

The graph above provides an overall look into our total supply chain. The apparel industry has been exposed to social compliance for over a decade. This is one of the reasons why many of the apparel factories in our supply chain meet our minimum standards and have fewer high-priority items.

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ContentPrimary/AboutMEC/Sustainability/AccountabilityReport/Manufacturing.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198674180684

and now back to el cheapo windshirts ….

;)

[Valerie E]

Wow. I really wasn't intending to make a political statement here. I just thought I'd highlight a product I found, foreign-made though it is.

Yes, Patagucci and MEC and many other companies have corporate citizenship programs that are good public relations exercises for them. Maybe I'm being too cynical; maybe I'm not, but I think we should all question just how much impact these programs have…and whether one company's contributions are more "important" than another's.

Thanks for all the input, but please consider that many of you standing in judgment may, many times a day, make equally impolitic consumption decisions.

Do you know where every bite of your food comes from (and if you grow your own, what about soil, seeds, "organic" purchased fertilizer, irrigation systems, etc.)? How many electronics do you own, and what do you know about the mines where the manufacturers got the metals for those "toys"? What kind of cars/trucks do you own? What about all your clothes, furniture, toiletries, etc.? Do you live off the grid, or do you buy power/water from the local utility, and what are their environmental practices? I could go on, but I think I've more than made my point.

Personally, I try to do the best I can to be a responsible person. I didn't drive a car until I was 38 years old (I walked, biked, or took public transit), I only have one car (a gas-sipping Honda Civic), my house has low ceilings (HVAC is in cubic inches!), I often walk to the local farmer's market to buy food, I buy MANY things used (re-use!!!) and try to give away/sell things I don't want (keep stuff out of the trash and create less need for new items to be manufactured), etc. I do not pretend that I am an "eco-warrier" or try to tell others how to live (well, I try not to, anyway!). ;~)

I'm sure that many of the people on this website also TRY THEIR BEST to live in a responsible manner, given that we are "first world" folks, with first world wants/expectations.

Please, before you start slinging vitriol my way for simply being honest about peoples' "actual" environmentalism, do the following: look at your own lifestyle with a more critical eye, to be sure that you aren't "people in glass houses throwing stones". I find it very hard to believe that the folks who were upset by this jacket have never bought Chinese-manufactured goods of any kind.

[Dale Wambaugh]

I thought it was a rather mature disscussion. Some stating of opinions and insights. No name calling or the like. Please don't be distressed!

[James holden]

invariably almost any BPL discussion on cheap gear from china becomes bogged down in "ethics" … as someone always says "well im not putting kids into slavery making my goods, so ill buy patacucci (its almost ALWAYS patagucci that gets bought up)"

i can dig out threads from years pasts of the exact same thing if we so desire =P

other than the "morality" of focusing on a few pieces of outdoor gear vs. all the other stuff you consumer … as mentioned above

people often forget that the first world nations of japan, korea, taiwan, hong kong, and even the US/UK were industrialized this way … and in the asian countries lifted out of poverty

china has brought hundreds of millions of into relative prosperity, not without problems of course … thanks to all us american/canadian/european consumers … its quite fair to say that when you buy stuff from those countries, the population there benefits somewhat

remember that there are tons of "abuses" even in the first world .. if you look at the MEC report … theres abuses in canadian factories, and notably taiwan ones (which is a first world nation with generally decent standards) …

all of this of course goes out the window once someone brings up "ethics" on BPL

what i find amazing personally is that its always patagucci thats brought up … what about the rest of us who own dead birds, MH, montbell, etc …

;)

[Ron D]

If you want to buy the windshirt from China, just buy it. If you feel guilty then take the price difference between it and a Houdini and donate it to an appropriate charity. The Philippines could certainly use the help right now and the good you would be doing is much greater than buying from Patagonia or MEC.
Ron

[Justin Baker]

This entire discussion seems so ridiculous coming from a site where many of it's members have entire rooms dedicated to gear.

[Delmar O’Donnell]

All the grandstanding and ethical one-upmanship in this thread is having the effect of making me want to buy one, even though I don't need one.

Valerie, please know we DO appreciate your finding & reporting on this item.

EYOE – Employ Your Own Ethics (an hommage to the HYOH ethos). I feel no compunction to follow anyone else's ethical system but my own, and don't give a hundredth of a hoot if anyone thinks I'm unethical from buying a Chinese windshirt.

I think people who try to control my behavior by imposing their value systems are unethical!

[Delmar O’Donnell]

I wish! Sadly, my ethical system does NOT allow me to do whatever I want.

In Plain American Non-vulgar English, it would be:

"I have my own internal guidance system, I don't need yours."

My ethical system is likely different from other peoples' systems.

Embrace the diversity.

[Valerie E]

A few things…

Ron D — Great idea – LOVE IT! I'm texting a donation for the Philippines right now!

Eric C — About 10 years ago, in a discussion of the (then) burgeoning Chinese manufacturing giant, my husband predicted that within a few years, the workers would want a better lifestyle, and would demand higher wages, and their society would change, and then we'd have to find a new source of cheap manufacturing. What's amazing is that this is coming to pass, even under "communism"! (I know, name only…)

Justin B — said it best:
>>This entire discussion seems so ridiculous coming from a site where many of it's members have entire rooms dedicated to gear.

And I thought I had pretty good logic…if brevity is the soul of wit, YOU are one witty dude! :~)

Delmar — good for you; you know who you are and are willing to "own" your choices.

I didn't open this discussion, but if there's one thing I hope this post will do (besides letting people know about a cheapie windshirt, LOL), it is to get folks to look into their souls (and their own behavior) a little bit deeper before galloping off on their high horse. Said with empathy, kind intentions, and for the betterment of all.

[zorobabel frankenstein]

Thank you Valerie for sharing your find and reviewing it!

About sizing, could you please measure your medium jacket and post the measurements here? (chest, sleeves, center back length…).

I usually wear a mens size small, though about half the time I feel it is too big (a Land's End small would be kinda large but short; TNF, Marmot are usually large); do you think I'd fit in the medium?

P.S. Guys, please stop the thread crapping.

[Rusty Beaver]

Thanks, Eric. From a cursory look, MEC looks like a decent company.

RE Patagonia, I was/am aware of what they have done and are doing. "Let My People Go Surfing" goes into it far deeper than what they could put on their website.

Have you read that book?

To the original poster, Valerie: Sorry your thread got derailed the way it did. It's par for the course here though. On the bright side, think about the good that may come from it. The derailment of threads like this might just have a positive influence on someone.

Peace to all.

[BlackHatGuy]

"but if there's one thing I hope this post will do (besides letting people know about a cheapie windshirt, LOL), it is to get folks to look into their souls"

Awwww shucks Valerie, you had me until this. My soul is a dark, scary place. Ain't gonna go looking there….

BTW, nice find!

[Dale Wambaugh]

So promoting the purchase of counterfeit products should go without mention? Counterfeiting is illegal and theft of the logo's reputation.

Consider this, if the product had a label from one of our cottage manufacturers, there would be a hew and cry heard all the way to Canton. Well, the people who work for Jack Wolfskin need their jobs too.

I think it is fine to point such things out, but it should be done with politeness and respect.

IMHO, when you knowingly buy counterfeit merchandise, you contribute to worker abuse and corruption and it is a form of theft.

I don't think the OP knew or really considered that when starting this thread and deserves some slack. I think Franco's points on the details do identify this item as counterfeit and I encourage you all to refrain from buying them.

What gets me is that the manufacturer could simply post them for what they are, pointing out the attributes that attracted us all in the first place and leave the stolen logo off. I think they would sell just fine.

My (respectful) $0.02

[Rusty Beaver]

"I think it is fine to point such things out, but it should be done with politeness and respect. IMHO, when you knowingly buy counterfeit merchandise, you contribute to worker abuse and corruption and it is a form of theft. I don't think the OP knew or really considered that when starting this thread and deserves some slack."

Good words, Dale. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Edited because i am human, and not a paradigm of ethics, and i understand that most do try with what they know, can afford, etc.

It was not my intention to cause a ruckus or to sit in judgement of others, or to point fingers. As i said, i'm not a paradigm of ethics, but i do think and care about these issues, and really wish that i, personally do could more, or that were more people who cared more.

I do admit i got a little defensive and irked when i read Paul A.'s 2nd reply which seemed, directed, albeit subtly with indirect innuendo, towards my direction in a rather more personal and judgmental way.

In my first post, i was speaking extremely generally and impersonally, but i should not have let myself start getting defensive and personal later on. It doesn't matter what others say or do to me, only what i do or say to others. I will try to live that more in the future, and try to stick harder to being impersonal and general with this kind of stuff.

Peace

p.s., i want to thank Eric Chan for all the info on MEC. They sound like a company i would like to and should support in the future.

[W I S N E R !]

I've been censored!

I guess my sarcastic humor system is different than others' and we can't embrace the diversity.
xxxxx

Goodnight BPL.

---

Diversity is good.
Vulgarity is needless.

Roger Caffin
Online Community monitor
Backpacking Light

[Roger Caffin]

Of course poor working conditions are to be deplored.
Of course child labour is to be deplored.
Of course the West should consider what it is doing.
However, beware of the side effects.

Well-meaning people are working hard to bring to an end the use (not employment!) of children in rug marking in Nepal. Surely a good thing? However, it seems the children (well, the young girls anyhow) are simply being diverted into the bonded sex trade in India.

Complaining that the factory conditions are atrocious is all very well, but what if the alternative is unemployment and starvation? Difficult, very difficult.

Realistically, things do change, but it takes time. Perhaps buying goods from Asia is slowly helping the whole country get a slow rise in the standard of living, as Western money comes into the country?

Difficult.

Cheers

[Kattt]

So you let the poster know when you delete an entire post?

[michael adamski]

At checkout, Ebay gives you the option to tack on a donation to aid the efforts in the Philippines.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Katharina

> So you let the poster know when you delete an entire post?
Not always.

If the post was an isolated instance I may just delete it and hope that the poster gets the message. That way there is no fuss and bother. Yes, this works quite well.

If only part of the posting was over the limits (say just one sentence) I may delete just that part. I would usually note in the posting that I had done so. This message is a bit more noticeable.

If the poster was creating a bit of a problem I may PM or email that person and ask them to take note of the BPL restrictions re language.

If the poster is over the top I may simply ban them without notice. This applies especially to shoe-spammers :-)

Cheers

[Kattt]

Ok….

Inserting yourself in Craig's post above seems a bit intrusive to me. I mean, you had the chance to explain yourself in the post you deleted entirely, or write your own. To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post…..seems like over reaching.

[Dustin Short]

Kat, it's just how Caffin does it. As with all forums there are admins and some are good, some are bad, and all have their quirks. Caffin usually is pretty hands off but his style has always been to modify posts for offensive material, especially from generally active and polite forum users.

Granted I didn't see the original post but meh, comes with not administrating your own forum.

[Franco Darioli]

"To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post…..seems like over reaching"
Maybe the F word almost fully spelled out is OK with you but it isn't for others.
And no , I did not complain , I am just letting you know what it was about.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Katharina

> Inserting yourself in Craig's post above seems a bit intrusive to me.
Yes, you are quite right, but the intrusion was deliberate. I was saying to the writer that what had been written in that posting was not acceptable.

> To insert your post into a perfectly legitimate, vulgarity free post…..seems
> like over reaching.
It was not 'vulgarity free' when I first read it.

The post I deleted entirely – yes, it was also unacceptable. Should I spend hours writing little essays every time? Maybe, but I don't have that much spare time. A straight deletion is also a fairly clear message to the writer.

As Franco wrote …

Cheers

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Just to add that such an action is part of the forum-guidelines and is just the way it is done here.

[Author]

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