November Trip: Patagonia or something else?

[Stephen Parks]

I am finally getting around to planning a trip for November. Work is shut down for the week of Thanksgiving and I have a lot of vacation that I need to burn before the end of the year.

I should have planned this a couple of months ago, but here I am now. I was considering the circuit of Torres del Paine, but I wonder if that is practical at this point. A few concerns:
-time left to make arrangements and reservations
-weather – how much more weight will I need to carry due to the cold, is the gear I have useable there, and how much more will I need
-travel time vs. awesomeness

I don't have any real cold-weather gear, just a 25F quilt. My rain gear consists of an OR Helium II and a rain skirt. My tent is a Notch. I just discovered the joy of trail runners. That sort of thing. And a friend who is interested in going has almost no backpacking experience (ok, I don't have a lot either, but enough to probably find my way around a circuit like that).

I stumbled upon a possible alternative – Circuito los Condores, not too far south from Santiago. It has been hard to find much about it in English, but it might be nice, and the weather is reportedly reliably good. Travel would be easier, and the little bit that I've read says it is less touristy. The entire thing is about 8-days. Anyone heard of this?

Any other suggestions? New Zealand is another option, but I don't know what routes are there. The entire trip doesn't have to be about backpacking. I think the southern hemisphere would be good due to longer days, and I think that it's not the best time to visit many of the great places in North America that I would like to visit.

The backup plan is a road trip to Big Bend or Guadalupe NP. But I've been out that way before.

I suppose I could wait and take a longer trip at the end of December, which would give a little more time to plan if going to Patagonia.

Your thoughts are welcome!

-Stephen

[Barry Cuthbert]

New Zealand is awesome! But I'm somewhat biased…

I listed some of my favourite South Island routes here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=77390&skip_to_post=660543#660543

You can add the so called "Great Walks" to this list, and don't forget about the North Island too…

Any questions just fire away.

EDIT:

Another good thread with lots of tramping routes in NZ

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=68369

[Jennifer Mitol]

You could do the Torres del Paine circuit with little planning time…you really don't need much.

Fly to punta arenas, then bus to puerto Natales. Stay at the singing lamb hostel in puerto Natales (it is awesome and cheap), store your city stuff.
Buy a bus ticket to the park (you can get it the day before you leave…), then hop the bus and start walking. No reservations needed. And you'll find most of the people on the trek have NO backpacking experience at all, so you'll already be ahead of the game.

The notch is great for shelter
You don't need more than a decent bag, warm baselayer, a puffy, rain gear and hat/gloves….don't dress or pack for full on winter camping. And the great thing about the circuit in Patagonia is that the campgrounds also have Refugio's attached (most of them anyway) so you can buy food or a room if you need to).

Easy hiking, weather can be a challenge but not as bad as you think, the views are epic…great trip.

[Stephen Parks]

Thanks, Jen! I was worried about not being able to get a place at hotels/hostels along the way, or not getting space on a bus, or the campsites being full, etc. If the campsites don't require reservations (and therefore I wouldn't be refused a permit as can happen at some of our parks), that is a very good thing. And if there is a room available in a refugio once or twice, that wouldn't be bad either.

What do you mean by decent bag? Any suggestion on rating? I'm a fairly cold sleeper, but would wear all the clothing I had to bed in UL style. And puffy – a UL puffy like a mont-bell ex light or something a little heavier?

Can you buy dehydrated food at the refugios? I'd like to take only equipment to boil water. If I can buy along the way, then maybe my Gorilla pack will be large enough. What types of stoves are allowed?

Shoes or boots?

[Stephen Parks]

Wow, Barry, so much to choose from!

[Ian]

Class III thread jack alert

Jen,

What kind of fuel did you use down there and what's commonly available?

Stephen,

Have fun on whatever adventure you find.

NM Jennifer already answered the question.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=69416

[Rick M]

del

[Stephen Parks]

Rick, I do indeed need to do a recon trip to Japan. I need to travel there to collaborate on my current project anyway, though, so I will let the company pay for that ticket, and then add a few extra days to scope the place out. Our T&E budget has already been consumed this year, so it will be Jan or Feb before I make the trip. A transfer likely wouldn't happen until mid- next year anyway.

I'll certainly check to see if you are available when I get over there, thanks for the offer!

[Jennifer Mitol]

Campsites…always space. Even if there isn't any……(lol)
Refugios, on the other hand, usually need reservations pretty far in advance.

Do NOT plan on buying the bulk of your food on the trail, and Puerto Natales doesn't really have a great selection of freeze dried stuff, either. I was able to buy regular supermarket type foods at the huge grocery store in Puerto Natales, but if you need dehydrated stuff you won't really find it.

There are odd regulations of bringing food into Chile – nothing fresh, no nuts or fruits or anything like that (but that is easily bought in town); we had no trouble getting our pre-packaged ramen and mountain house through though. They will not allow home packaged meals at all. So be mindful of that in planning for your meals.

As far as a the sleeping bag goes, I'm a cold sleeper and I had a 15 deg bag (this was pre-quilt days) and a synmat UL7 and I was good. It was pretty damp tho, and this is one place I wondered if a synthetic would have been warmer at the end. But regardless, I would plan for shoulder-season type conditions. Whatever you'd sleep in for that should be fine.

I had my montbell alpine light parka and was plenty warm (except for the hour waiting for the sun to rise on the Torres our last day, now that was cold!).

I used my canister stove as canisters are plentiful in Puerto Natales, and the Erratic Rock hostel downtown (a hippy style meeting place that gives a talk every day at 3p…go to it. It is wonderful) has bins of partially used containers. I'm not sure how hard it would be to get esbit or alcohol, as pretty much everyone used canisters. And some even carried those suitcase-sized double burner Coleman stoves. Not much backpacking experience there……

You will not need to carry any water or water treatment at all. There are waterfalls and streams everywhere, just coming straight from the glacier on top of the mountain. I am a huge stickler about water treatment (even in the Sierra…) and I never bothered. Obviously don't get water downstream from the campground, but you get the point. Best tasting water I ever had…

You can probably get away with the gorilla, depending on how many days you plan on taking. We went slow, took a rest day, stopped early to do all the side trips…so we spread it over 11 days (could easily be done in 7-8) which meant I had a lot of food. But without water to carry that helped a lot.

I would do shoes, not boots. The hiking is pretty easy, although there certainly can be snow on the ground, and some serious mud. So plan accordingly.

Hope that helps…and feel free to pester away. It was a great trip and I like talking about it :)

[Stephen Parks]

Ok, so I got confirmation that my friend is in for a trip to Patagonia! I now have to make flight arrangements as the next order of business.

Jen, can you give me some tips on the travel side of things? From your earlier posts it looks like:
1. Fly to Santiago.
2. Fly to Punta Arenas (via ? – I haven't looked just yet, maybe this is easy to determine online. Does this flight leave from the same airport as international arrivals?)
3. Bus to Puerto Natales (do you recall the company? Can I make reservations ahead of time or is it just a regular route with frequent service?)
4. Get a bus ticket for the park and spend the night in P.N. (Will the singing lamb let you leave your extra gear there?)
5. Take the park bus in the morning and start walking.

I guess I'll start planning the travel on both ends of the trip and see how much time is left in the middle. Is it realistic to budget two travel days in each direction, or will it take longer than that from US to P.N.? I'll have about two weeks total, so I hope I can get 10 days at the park.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience! When did you go, and what time of year?

-Stephen

More gear questions to follow!

[Jennifer Mitol]

I flew American to Santiago, and their partner airline (???) to punta arenas. When I bought the ticket I booked the flight all the way to PA…my flight was OHare to Punta Arenas, with stops in Miami and Santiago then PA. That was nice because I didn't have to deal with any separate bag checking or anything.

In Santiago you will pick up your bags, actually go thru customs, buy your $150 ish entry visa, then head to the domestic part of the airport to check your bag again for the flight to punta arenas.

Once in PA you can choose any of the bus companies…we just walked from our hostel and bought the tickets to Puerto Natales for the next day (buses leave like every hour or so). It was very, very easy. We left bright and early the next morning. Some choose to be picked up from the airport and bused all the way to PN…I think that would be miserable. It was a 28-hour flight from Chicago for me. It was nice to eat a nice meal and sleep in a nice comfy bed before getting back on a bus. But I also had the luxury of time.

Yes, two days of travel on either end is good. You can do the circuit easily in 8 days…we took extra time because we had it…if you are even remotely fit you can do the whole bit faster. So you have time to spare.

You can buy your bus ticket to the park from the hostel – I'd recommend making bed reservations at the singing lamb (or wherever you stay…but we loved it there!!) now, just in case. They were able to hold beds for us for our return day as well. And yes, they have locked lockers to store your town stuff while you are trekking.

Once you get there you will find the logistics to be remarkably easy, despite how they seem now. I have done a lot of international travel and trekking, and this trip had me very stressed beforehand. Unnecessarily of course, as it ended up being super easy.

I was there in February of 2012…had an absolute blast.

Food is a bit of an issue…we can talk about that when you are ready. I can also send along the name of the hotel we stayed in in Punta Arenas…also a wonderful place. Run by an Alaskan and his Chilean wife, it was walking distance from 3 of the bus companies and a block from my favorite restaurant in all of chile (the food in that country was not good. Very, very expensive and rather meh). But the pisco sours were amazing!!!!!

Anyway, feel free to ask away…you can PM me or email at jenmitol AT gmail DOT com if that's easier.

Congrats…and be excited!! Its a truly awesome trip!!

[Wim Depondt]

end of November-beginning December is IMHO the best season walking season for Nepal: crowds have gone and the weather very often cloudless (very cold though in the Everest region).

Long flight from the American contintinent though + massive jet lag.

If going to Patagonia, certainly consider the Argentinan side.

Wim

[Stephen Parks]

That brings up a good question, Wim: If Patagonia, where is the best place in Patagonia to go? There's a lot more than just Torres Del Paine NP, but I don't know what to look at.

[Wim Depondt]

I have good memories of the El Chalten region. Easily accessible: frequent daily flights from Buenos Aires to El Calafate. Frequent direct busses to El Chalten. Would be my recommendation for a first time visitor.
There are direct busses from El Calafate to TdP, so you can combine both regions.
Avoid high season at all cost, so November would be perfect.

If you want more info, purchasing the LP ‘trekking in Patagonia’ might be a good investment (can be purchased as an ebook).

If you can speak Spanish, have a packraft and don’t mind wilderness treks, possibilities are endless. Check Patagoniadreams.com for inspiration.

PS: (basic) knowledge of Spanish is a big plus in South America.

[Jennifer Mitol]

I chose TdP because I couldn't find any good, longer treks on the Argentinian side. El Chalten is mostly day hiking from a lodge (but you can camp). I had been told it was cheaper than the Chilean side, but in talking to folks when I was there it seems that is no longer the case.

I agree speaking spanish helps, but it is by no means a must.

This is why we chose TdP over the other options down there.

[Stephen Parks]

Booked flights last night! I think I'll be able to have 9 solid days in the park. I would have liked it to be 10 or 11, but the flights just weren't working out on other days (as it is, some of the flights and layovers are pretty bad – there's a 19 hour layover in Lima, but at least we can get out and visit the city/beach in that time).

I'll have lots more questions soon!

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