Best one pound sleeping bag?

[David Gardner]

Just sent the following email to Ben at Goosefeet Gear:

“Hi Ben,

I was referred to you by a member of Backpacking Light online magazine.

I’d like to make an XUL modular jacket/elephant foot/”walking mummy” system. The “jacket” can be worn separately with sleeves out, and combined with the elephant foot to make a mummy with sleeves that can be pulled in and function as draft collars if desired. The elephant foot has a drawstring foot box that can be opened so I can put my feet out and lounge around in it on cold mornings and evenings, and get up in the middle of the night to pee will still wearing the bag. Similar to a Feathered Friends Wren/Winter Wren but with sleeves (Nunatak used to make a bag like the Wren with integrated sleeves) and the ability to separate the top and bottom portions of the mummy. I have a sketch I can send if you like.

Rated to 20 F, target weight 20-25 oz. Maybe using 7D fabric inside and out, possibly eVent DCF or similar for the outer shell. 900 fill power or higher goose down. #3 zippers.

Thanks!”

I’ll let y’all know what he says. If the system is less than $1000 I may go for it, for sure if it’s less than $800.

[Michael B]

I’d be interested in what you end up with, Dave, as that seems like a very specific combination of gear. I get the idea of using an elephant foot and heavy parka combo for expeditions where temps are going to be very cold, and you are likely to wear your parka the majority of the time, but for XUL, I think you may run into issues of added interfaces (weight) for not a lot of added functionality. I think your requirement to be able to pull the arms in, will drive a parka that is very billowy and not useful as a normal jacket (most bags are about 60″ in circumference in the chest area), but maybe that is ok.

[Ken Larson]

@gearmaker

Have you contacted (phone with email design) Jan at Nunatak to see if she would make your “dream” bag? She is very busy and this might be a long wait beyond the 16 weeks now posted on the Nunatak site.

[jscott]

I’m really careful with keeping my bag clean. I always wondered about how campsite dirt, pine sap, snags and rips, embers, etc. might affect a wearable bag in that regard.

that said, I wear my down parka in camp with no ill effects, mostly, so maybe it’s not an issue!

[David Gardner]

No word back from Ben at Goosefeet Gear. Wondering if calling might work better.

@mikebergy: Actually, my idea is geared towards summer High Sierra conditions, where it gets up to 80 or higher during the day but dips below 40 F at night. The system is mainly a sleeping bag that can be worn, and I would only use the parka part as I now use a puffy, early in the morning before I start hiking and in the evening when I’m done hiking and setting up camp, having dinner, lounging around before bed. In truly cold and winter conditions where I would likely wear the parka much more often I always bring separate sleeping bag, parka and down pants as a safety margin, in case one or the other gets wet or is unusable for some reason. For sure a sleeping bag adapted system would have a billowy parka portion so that it would have enough room for sleeping with arms inside.

Here are a couple of pictures of the Nunatak Raku:

My thought was basically to take something like an extra long Raku and divide it into a parka and elephant foot about 3.5 to 4 feet up from the foot box. I’m 5′ 7″ so this would give me about one foot of interface/overlap above the waist. For sure this would save considerable weight too, if nothing else since it would basically eliminate the vest portion of a parka as well as separate down pants, since it’s basically just a 18-20 oz sleeping bag + 5-6 oz sleeves.

@kenlarson: I did call Jan, but Nunatak is so far back ordered that they aren’t doing any custom work for the next six months at least, just making their standard products. They do still have the patterns to make a Raku and said they could easily customize it the way I’d like, but to call back in the Fall to see if they can get to it then.

@book: For sure, I’m super extra careful lounging around in my sleeping bag, always use a sit pad, and keep the bottom high up from the dirt with a 1/2″ web strap as a belt.

Here are some wearable sleeping bags from Amazon. All are under $200, weigh 2-3 lbs, and say they are rated to 40-50* F. I’ve thought about getting the

“onewind” Topquilt wearable blanket, $70, 42 oz, synthetic insulation, rated to 40 F, needs a hood:

Selk’bag Lite 6G Wearable Sleeping Bag, $100, 46 oz, rated to 40 F, synthetic:

WIND HARD Wearable Goose Down Sleeping Bag, $135, 15.5 oz, rated to 45 F, needs hood:

Pretty tempted to buy that last one and add a hood, to about 18-20 oz total, and give it a try. Maybe back it up with a thin base layer. It’s been dipping into the mid- to high-30’s at night here, so good testing conditions.

My present systems:

A. 18 oz down bag, 12 oz down puffy, 10 oz down pants, good to 40 F = 40 oz

B. 31.4 oz FF Winter Wren, 5.1 JackRBetter sleeves, good to 25 F = 36.5

If I could adapt a 18-20 oz down bag and add sleeves, a 60″ waist #3 zipper, and drawstring foot box I could get a 25 F system in the range of 27-30 oz.

 

[J R]

40 oz takes you down to only 40F? Actually more than that because you need an insulated pad to stay warm underneath.

[David Gardner]

My cobbled-together 40 oz system might go lower. It’s a cheap sewn-thru bag rated to 50. With the puffy and down pants good to at least 40. Haven’t tried it lower yet but planning to.

But that is precisely the issue: with bag, puffy and pants it weighs way too much for the performance, even if it’s good down to 30 F.

I always use a GG ThinLite CCF pad under whatever air mat I’m using and have never had any warmth issues in 3-season use with Klymit, Nemo Tensor, Thermarest Xlite and Uberlite air pads, so that part of the system doesn’t change.

[David Gardner]

Have some JacksRBetter sleeves on the way. Will try that soon and report back.

[David Gardner]

Haven’t heard anything from Ben.

Decided on a Zpacks 30F Solo Quilt (my first quilt) long, regular, 14.4 oz.

I intend to modify the quilt.

There is an awesome outdoor gear sewing specialist that I have used many times over the past 30+ years located in Berkeley CA named Narain’s (510-527-2509) who I will have do the mods. Looking at the shape I was thinking it made sense to invert it for parka use by turning the foot box into the “hood” by adding a face opening and two shoulder openings (zippers or maybe velcro) on the sides at the end of the quilt opening where the hip taper joins the foot box to accommodate the JacksRBetter sleeves.

Assuming the mods add 2 oz, the total system would be:

2 oz mods + 14.4 oz bag + 5.1 oz sleeves = 21.5 oz

[Michael B]

Might be a bit smelly to turn your footbox area into your hood area.

[David Gardner]

Ha! Ya know, I was just waiting to see who would be the first to make that comment.

The 20 oz weight savings and 15+ degree temperature rating improvement are worth it. I think…

[Michael B]

I’d be happy with a 20oz bag and a 8-10oz puffy “penalty” to not smell my own feet at the end of the day!

[jscott]

nm

[James Marco]

Well, there is a reason the two pieces are separate.
1) You do not want to get you sleeping bag damaged or wet…ever. The slightest provocation means you are doing something wrong.
2) You can wear the jacket to bed utilizing the down as insulation inside. This will add about 10F+ to a bag.
3) The overall utility of a jacket as opposed to a converted bag is MUCH higher. I have stepped out for a midnight run in the rain several times with my jacket, I would not do that with my bag. I use the jacket around camp and on cold days, hiking with it unzipped. I do not worry about a snag or two as it already has enough patches to weigh about an ounce different.

Anyway, a 13oz bag and a 12oz jacket come up to 25 ounces. That is 4ounces off your 21ounces and I believe I get better utility out of the jacket.

[jscott]

I have to agree with James on this. I consider my bag to be a  potential life saver, or at least as being the one thing keeping me from spending a night shivering uncontrollably in temps in the 30’s. As such I treat it with utmost care. I wouldn’t want to wear it around camp or risk falling into a lake when I went to fill up my water bottle. Granted, an unlikely scenario. I have visited other tents at night in the dark however. I just wouldn’t want to be wearing my bag as I walked though the woods at night.

It’s probably too late but you could just walk across the street from Narain’s and pick up a bag at REI that will serve your needs without any modifications. And be very light! Much simpler and cheaper.

However, let us know how it all works out!

[Brad Rogers]

Do you want a full mummy bag with a hood, a hoodless bag, or a quilt?

Other than something completely custom like Nunatak can make you, for a hooded bag, the best I know of is the Western Mountaineering Highlite (35*F)- though most people would agree it’s worth the weight to go up to the 19oz Summerlite (32*F).

There are a couple of other choices like the Marmot Phase 30 are close but slightly over one pound.

The Mountain Hardwear Speed 32 and the older 900 fill iteration of the Marmot Atom (40*) are 16 oz as we but are both discontinued.  You may be able to find one used.

 

[Monte Masterson]

As far as warmth to weight ratio, the Feathered Friends Tanager is going to be pretty much unbeatable. There’s no zipper, which of course makes it more challenging to get in and out of, however that also means there’s no leaks and you save weight. So with 950 goose fill and a 7d X 5d Pertex outer shell you’re getting 12.6 oz of the highest quality goose down available in a 18.6 oz package (68″ length). It’s a little over the 1 pound criteria though. The Tanager also come in a 74″ long version. I don’t own one , but I hear they run a little slim in the mid section.

https://featheredfriends.com/collections/sleeping-bags/products/tanager-cfl-20-ultralight-down-sleeping-bag

 

[David Gardner]

No question that separate bag and puffy have more utility. If I were to go that way I would also want some down pants so my legs don’t freeze when I’m hanging around camp.

What I am seeking is a highly specialized bit of kit for a very specific purpose. I will be going very light and very fast for 200 miles at 11,000’+ most of the time, during mid-summer in the high Sierra. Very active hiking all day from sunrise to sunset and the only reason I would like warmth outside my sleeping bag is for when I’m not hiking early in the morning and before going to bed.

Here are the two systems I started with:

1. Feathered Friends Winter Wren 31.7 oz + JacksRBetter sleeves 5.1 oz = 36.8 oz

Good to 20F, more utility than just a bag, but heavy

2. Generic cheap mummy 18 oz + Marmot puffy 12 oz + generic down pants 10 oz = 40 oz

Good to 35F-40F, great utility, but ridiculously heavy

I will definitely be skipping the puffy and down pants (or thick base layer) altogether to save a significant amount of weight – even the lightest possible combo of puffy and pants would add about a pound.

I have some 10.2 oz waterproof & windproof coveralls that, based on 10 years of experience with it, are generally good for about 10F of additional temperature rating. My entire body is encapsulated in warm, humid air that doesn’t get into the down bag, and I can get out of the bag without being completely exposed. So first alternative would be:

3. Generic cheap mummy 18 oz + 10.2 oz coveralls = 28.2 oz

Definitely good to 40F maybe 35F, decent utility, not too heavy, no additional cost, but iffy if it drops below freezing.

Also considered another alternative, using cheap mummy, windproof (but not waterproof) Tyvek coveralls, and a MYOG DCF poncho:

4. Generic cheap mummy 18 oz + 5.1 oz coveralls + 3.6 oz poncho = 26.7

Probably good to 40F, good utility, not heavy, no additional cost, very iffy below 40F.

Using a modified Zpacks 30F solo quilt and JacksRBetter sleeves (both of which I have already purchased) I will also need the DCF poncho for rain protection (which is necessary for every alternative suggested and listed above except #3):

5. Quilt and sleeves 21.5 oz + DCF poncho 3.6 = 25.1

Good to 30F, decent utility for my limited needs, very light, but EXPENSIVE (a bit over $500 + modification costs).

OR

6. Quilt 14.4 oz + 10.2 oz waterproof coveralls = 24.6 oz

Good to 30F, good utility, very light, less expensive than #5 (no modification weight and cost; even though I have purchased the JacksRBetter sleeves I can use them in winter with the FF Winter Wren).

OR

7. Quilt 14.4 oz + 3.6 oz poncho = 18 oz

Good to 30F, decent utility, extremely light.

So at this point it’s a choice between #5, #6 and #7.

 

[David Gardner]

Interesting. I typed in both FF and Feathered Friends with no link, but when I post they become links without me doing anything.

[jscott]

Marmot Hydrogen is 23 ounces; patagonia down sweater is 13 ounces.  I can’t imagine needing down pants on your route. So that’s about 11 ounces more than what you’re proposing. that’s fairly significant. You could doubtless find a lighter still bag that’s also rated down to 30% like the Hydrogen.

Of course, this brings up what other layers that you’re bringing. For the Sierra I’ve ended up leaving behind a layer or two and bringing a heftier down jacket instead. I end up being warmer for less weight. down is the most efficient insulation after all. Of course your wearable bag system would work as well. At elevation it gets cold, so you’ll doubtless need to don the bag when you’re cooking dinner, getting water, maybe even pooping, setting up the tent etc. Oof! I may be wrong and you may love this system. Maybe you plan on eating dinner on the trail and just setting up your tent and sleeping.

[David Gardner]

Other layers: SPF sun shirt 10.2 oz, polyester compression tights 5.6 oz, nylon cargo shorts 6.9 oz, Tyvek coveralls 5.1 oz, maybe polyester compression top 5.1 oz.

When I’m wearing all of that I’m good indefinitely at 50F and good for 10-15 minutes 35-40F. This is what I’ll be wearing when actively moving around in camp, setting up & taking down, and getting water. If I don’t do the mods to the Zpacks quilt I’ll just wrap it around me when I’m sitting/lounging.

I shopped ponchos to see if I could save myself some money and work ($145 for 9 “yards” of 0.34 DCF from RBTR) and found that Zpack’s bathtub poncho ground sheet is $200 and weighs 5.1 oz, and the Sea to Summit Ultra Sil Nano poncho is $75 for 5.1 oz. That’s an easy call!

8. Quilt 14.4 + 5.1 oz Sea to Summit Ultra Sil Nano poncho – 1.7 oz ground sheet = 17.8 oz

With the other layers, esp. the Tyvek coveralls, I’m leaning towards #8 now.

Here is my current gear list.

[Marcus]

Take note, I’m doing my own UL quilt quest at the moment and I notice that the down fill volume of the 30* Zpacks Slim/Regular quilt (7470cuin)  is less than the exact same size 40* Hammock Gear quilt (7750cuin).

I have 3 HG quilts and they are comfort rated. My 20* quilt has never been below 25*, but I was toasty warm at 25 so am confident I had another 5* to spare (with my usual Smart wool 250 long pants and shirt base layers)

Based on my comparison of fill volume, Zpacks quilts are 10* over rated. As in add 10-14* to their rating for a semi-realistic “comfort” rating (I say more than 10* because my HG Econ quilt uses 20D fabric which is basically windproof. Most CFM ratings on 7D fabric i see are significantly higher than 20D, so if the zpacks 7d fabric breathes more you may lose more than 10* depending on conditions and how weatherproof your shelter is). I mention this because it sounds like you’ll have few other clothing options to layer with, and without a mid-weight puffy to supplement the more realistic 42* Zpacks comfort rating, you may have some coooold nights, and downright bad nights if it gets below 30.

Here are some comparisons i’ve done. The colors just correspond to the specs I’m specifically looking for, so you can generally ignore those.

 

 

[David Gardner]

Hey Marcus,

Good to know and food for thought.

Did you calculate those volumes based on weight of fill x fill power? I couldn’t find them on the Zpacks website. When I multiply the 9.4 ounces of fill for a long, standard width 30F quilt by 900 cu. in./oz I get 8,460 cu. in.

Zpacks states “ISO Rating: while our sleeping bags and quilts have not been tested for their International Standards Organization (ISO) rating, we estimate based on feedback and use they are closest to the middle of the “lower limit“ of the (ISO) ratings.”

It has been dipping down to as low as 37°F at night here so I intend to test the bag the night I receive it. If I’m not toasty at 37°F that $400 bag is going back!

[Marcus]

Ya, just power x weight, which I know is not ideal, but at least gives some idea of the absolute warmth. I used the 74″ long x 55″ wide quilts for my comparison so because both Zpacks and HG quilts are available in that exact size, allowing for a fair comparison.

But in general if you look at the rest of the fill volumes compared to HG or Katabatic, it seems to me that KB and HG are comfort ratings with no base layers, while Zpacks is a limit rating.

But please report back how comfortable you are in the 30!

I’ve narrowed it down to a HG 30* Burrow Premium regular/wide, 850 fill, 10300cuin down, 10D Fabric, 18.4oz, $330 shipped or the Zpacks 20* regular/slim, 900 fill, 11400cuin down, 7D Fabric, 17.5oz,  $360 shipped. Im leaning towards the Zpacks 20 as I bet it will sleep like a 25-28* quilt comfortably, which is right where conditions around me bottom out

[David Gardner]

Giving up on modifying the Zpacks 30F quilt.

For utility and comfort I swapped out the 10.7 oz “extra” base layer of poly/lycra compression tights and long-sleeve top (my summer base layer is long polyester pants and a long-sleeve sun shirt) for a 10.7 oz puffy and 7.5 oz down pants. Plunked down the bank to get a Bearikade Blazer and save 7 oz off the BV500 to compensate.

[Author]

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