The SUL Mindset, Part 2: Less vs. Lighter

[Stephanie Jordan]

Companion forum thread to:

The SUL Mindset, Part 2: Less vs. Lighter

[Mobius Vortex]

So for a long dry stretch just carry you water in a zip lock bag. And just be extra safe don't carry a map or compass.
This all crosses the line into stupid light. Admittedly I was set off by the second paragraph "If you have to buy new stuff, … ultralight hypocrisy." A couple of years ago my lightest sleeping bag was 3 lbs and the lightest pack that could hold it 7+ lbs empty. No way are you going to go SUL with that gear. Then to follow that with the suggestion of using a zip lock as your water carry for "long dry stretches". Please!

[Andrew F]

If you blindly followed Ryan's gear list, then yes it could very well be stupid light. But bringing a tarp when you can stay perfectly dry under natural cover isn't necessarily smart either. What you need to stay safe and comfortable depends on a huge number of factors (experience level and environment to name a few). That, I think, is the whole point of this series – picking one number (5 or 6 or 10 lbs) isn't an accurate descriptor. Accurately assessing the conditions and bringing the least gear you can to stay safe and comfortable – that's a better definition of UL/SUL.

[Hamish McHamish]

Some of Ryan's advice just seems inconsistent to me, that's all.

"If you have to buy new stuff, then regardless of your pack weight, consider that you may have transcended away from the ultralight philosophy and into ultralight hypocrisy." Seriously: hypocrisy? This is the kind of bombastic verbiage I'm talking about. Are we all hypocrites for getting rid of our 7 lb Dana Design packs and getting frameless packs, regardless of the load carried?

In a certain way it reminds me of Twight's whining back in the day about how the summit didn't really matter anyway. Everyone knew that HE knew it was crap but he did it anyway to cause a stir and get more press. I doubt Ryan is looking for press but I believe that he likes to throw whoppers out there just to stir the pot, knowing that the statements are over-the-top and not really consistent.

While Googling I found this comment regarding Twight's writing and it almost seems apropos here: "he has said elsewhere that he doesn't really bother justifying his positions rationally and that most of his writing is more manifesto than treatise".

Maybe that's how we should interpret some of Ryan's comments: in spirit, not in substance.

[Ryan Jordan]

I find that a 1.2 oz Platypus bottle works better than a used zip closure bag that's in your garbage pile and contains some gorp dust for carrying water.

I'm not trying to educate you on "how to make this choice" just to save a half ounce, or otherwise extolling the virtues of using zip bags for water storage.

I got the idea because I did a 5 day trip across the Beartooths using the pot-steripen-no bottle approach, and I had one nine mile stretch that was dry (up on a ridge). So I figured I might as well use a dirty zippie from yesterday's lunch rather than take along a water bottle just for that one stretch.

And wait — I thought the key to generating site traffic was to promote popular gear and methods? Sheesh, I've really got this all confused.

Besides, I needed that big pack (+26 oz!) to house the Ridge Rest Deluxe. Rolled up inside, that thing is huge, and it looks kinda stupid strapped to that little tiny 1600 ci day pack :D

[Ryan Jordan]

James,

It's hard for me to reconcile the seemingly endless acquisition of ultralight gear and promoting the virtues of ultralight philosophy in the backcountry while living a consumer-centric lifestyle and living in a consumer-centric culture.

I own way more backpacking gear *options* (and thus, more pieces, and more mass) now than I ever did before discovering the ultralight thing.

That's not…progress, is it?

If this hypocrisy isn't part of your journey, no big deal, just pretend the "Hypocrite!" finger isn't pointing at you. But it's certainly part of mine, and I see that finger pointing at me.

[Justin Baker]

Even on trips where I am following water, I bring a water bottle. I like having something to drink out of during the evenings without walking back and forth to the water. I can't drink out of my pot if it's full of food.

[Serge Giachetti]

I see a lot of people on this site blindly follow what someone else suggests they do, especially certain someone else's who are staff writers for BPL. I took this article as a suggestion to experiment with taking less of what you already own. If you've been getting out into the wilderness a decent amount, then presumably you've gotten a chance to see what of your gear works in different situations. And presumably you've gained some confidence in yourself in a wilderness setting, and thus an ability to parse the advice that you read in internet articles and forums.

Its not like now that Ryan had fun using his heavy CCF pad and no tarp or map that its the 'cool' way to backpack. Get outside more and figure out what works for you.

I'm lucky enough to live super close to a beautiful wilderness area (40mins to my profile pic). After taking enough trips, geeking out over routes on google earth and studying the terrain from various peaks, its no longer necessary to bring a map or a compass. This is no major feat of wilderness know-how–Its a small area and I go there a lot. If you've reached that point of familiarity, there's no question if you need a map or not. If you are questioning and thinking about what RJ wrote in this article at the trail head, then you should probably just bring one.

I think its pretty clear that RJ is not issuing general wilderness guidelines. He's trying to get you to think outside the box about applying a minimalist SUL ethic.

I think we're better at resolving potential contractions then we give ourselves credit for.

[Claudio Zanoni]

I have a lot less gear since UL started to creep into my mind

e.g. reduced to 1 stove (alc) or open fire…
1 sleeping bag & 1 pad (winter/3 season)…
1 backpack for everything
etc…

Reading this I am seriously thinking about reducing everything to just what you see in Ryans pictures… plus a tarp for very rainy trips… then you grab that and go…

Definitely worth carrying a little more weight & volume for the simplicity gained, at least to me…

p.s. the more pictures the better… that pad with all gear on it… better than a 1000 words…

[Peter S]

Thanks Ryan, it's a great article series.

I won't blindly copy your advice, (as I'm 100 percent sure you're not advocating), but i helps me to think outside my own personal "spreadsheet-box"

It reminds me of this TED talk clip:

[Robert Patrick]

The soft underbelly of the beast is that many just do not list their entire kit. Take Ryan's last video —He is shown using a hatchet in the wilds to make a fire–We never see a hatchet on any gear lists. This is not to denegrate any of us but to say that a strict goal of a specific lbs causes a mind set that is not honest with oneself most of the time.

[Jim Sweeney]

It’s very important to remember that backpacking, lightweight backpacking, is all a game– which is in no way to denigrate it. There’s nothing more serious or more useful than play. Play makes us sharper, more able to handle the unexpected event, less apt to get in ruts, enables us to establish and function in stable hierarchies in social subgroups, refocuses our gazes outward, etc.

Typically a game is established by an inventor who creates the game and enrolls others in playing it. Unsurprisingly, the rules initially favor the skill set of the creator. But as the game gets absorbed by its surrounding culture, the rules change to keep it interesting— playable by more people, and unlikely to be dominated by some uninteresting subset of players. For example, in auto racing, engine size is limited to keep races from being dominated by the inelegant behemoths of super-rich sponsors.

The process of making the rules is inherently political, and subject to the surprises and reversals typical of politics. As with the engine size analogy, if the LW backpacking game had a cost-no-object flavor, the boards would ultimately be dominated by posters crowing about their latest $4,000 sleeping bag, and might ultimately devolve into the game of “what do I buy next?” (Thus losing sight of a fundamental initial play function, to reduce the gap that separates us from the natural world). As in any good game, the rules evolve to optimize the nature of the play.

Interestingly, before LW backpacking, the backpacking game was often (usually covertly) about “heavyweight” backpacking. People delighted in how much, not how little, weight they were carrying— hefting each others packs, bragging rights going to the heaviest load. So the shift to LW was a complete reversal. And perhaps the shift away from a consumerist approach is another reversal. (And just in time—I’m running out of room & money!)

[MFR]

Ryan, I do appreciate you acknowledging the hypocrisy inherent in UL. (Let's go ahead and be really honest–it's just inherent in most things we humans do.)

While I really like the emphasis of this week, I found it a little frustrating that you were saying that you were taking what you already had when you clearly just replaced your old HMG Expedition with a new one. Of course, you had clearly put a lot of use in the previous pack, so maybe replacing well-worn gear is less hypocritical.

Simplicity and elegance are worth a high price, but I'm not sure they're worth the cost that the hypocrisy of consumerism demands. Thanks for critiquing that, even if we're all entrapped within it to some extent.

[Ryan Jordan]

Clayton — I wore the old HMG expedition pack out toting heavy loads while guiding, it ripped out at the hip belts. I notified HMG about it, and they've retooled it so it's no longer an obvious failure point, so the pack I'm using in the new vids is my warranty replacement.

[Kattt]

@ Jim Sweeney.
Yours is one of my favorite BPL posts. Thank you.

[Brett Peugh]

I personally like some of Ryan's ideas and have been doing a few of them myself previously. His series actually got me interested and willing to join as a member for another year again. I have often thought about buying new gear but usually instead just used what I had or came across. I own a used Rainbow for when it is really buggy and cowboy camp the rest of the time using a large garbage sack, my rain skirt and my rain jacket. I have an Evernew UL Ti 1.3L pot that i use on my stove at home also. I am not going to spend the extra $45 to buy a slightly smaller one to save ~1oz. If I take my Ridgerest Solar Deluxe I use the Granite Gear Vapor Trail, if I take the Klymit Static V, I use a generic school backpack. Not always the lightest but at 6'5" I will never make the SUL 5# measurement and keep my gear costs way down. So I dirt bag it, take less and come close to both.

[Lachlan Fysh]

Really interested by the choice of R3 – I'm going to Iceland in a month and had been planning to take an R1 (for active use) and a nano puff pullover for camp… but I've also got an R2, would you advocate this over one/both of these other two jackets? Windshirt and hardshell will also both be brought along.

[Joel Benford]

All this talk of philosophy… I don't give a hoot for philosophy, I just enjoy having less weight on my shoulders.

I got the message about "don't take what you don't need" a while ago. What I like about this article is the way it uses the circumstances to finesse "what you need". There is a reliable supply of thick trees for shelter? OK, no bivy. There is water every hour all/most of the way? Leave the containers, improvise over the gaps. You have extensive wilderness skills? Live off the land, bring less. On the downside… Can't keep down dry? Use heavier fleece. A 4400cu pack is what you've got? Bring it.

If it was canyoneering somewhere hot and dry, and the hiker couldn't tie a knot let alone build a fire with wet wood, the same logical process would lead to a different set of gear.

This isn't philosophy, this is engineering.

[Jamie Shortt]

What a grand series! It's like reading a great book, it so much fun then you suddenly realize it has to end. All I can say is I hope we continue to get thought provoking articles like this for all long as Ryan can continue come up with this stuff.

I have had a difficult time getting out this year…knee surgery in March, family schedules, work commitments… nothing was lining up. I've been inspired by these articles and just decided to let things go and head out for a 40 mile trip in the Smoky Mountains this week. I am bit a bit out of shape because of the knee and I spent a tough storm filled night on top of Mount Sterling, but beyond that it was spectacular. Heck even the problems were spectacular as they taught me several things.

Keep the inspiration coming, I can really use it.

Jamie

[Randy Cain]

I love this kind of article. Even though some folks might not want to try certain things, this stimulates thought about what is really necessary in your kit, what's possible, etc. Keep 'em coming, Ryan!

[Josh Brock]

Really liked the article.. I think people need to get brought back out of the marketing side of "Ultra light" and back into the backpacking part.

And it seems that people are quick to jump on you about the article. Saying your gear list is irresponsible. and that your a hopocrit for having a new peice of gear. They hang on to your exact words and ignore the idea of what your saying. kind of petty, unless they really are just missing what your saying.

[Emmanuel Romo]

Thank you for producing these articles and Wanderer videos Ryan.They are worth the subscription I just paid for. I'm looking forward to more.

The cowboy camp advice reminds me of my my last trip up San Gorgonio a couple weeks ago. I split the weight of a GoLite SL3 with all stock parts plus an all-weather space blanket between my buddy and I. At night, his GF who was part of the group was tossing back and forth making the small space in the SL3 extremely awkward between the three of us- especially me being a back sleeper.

There were six other people in our group, 5 of which were cowboy camping- one of which was a first timer. After huffin and puffin I thought to myself, why suffer? If they can cowboy camp why can't I? I've been backpacking a few years. We were in a windy, flat below treeline with fast flowing water 30 yards away. The flying insects didnt worry me. We were lying near downed logs and I was using my EE quilt. I got over my irrational fear of spiders, termites and other creepy crawlies. It was amazing to fall asleeo eyes wide open staring at the stars. I didn't even wear my head net and I'm alive to tell the tale.

I will cautiously cowboy camp from now on even if I take my MLD ProPoncho. : D

[Emmanuel Romo]

Double post.

[Richard Scruggs]

Great series, Ryan. Really enjoy your discussions of techniques, gear, and looking at SUL in different and/or new ways.

Thanks!

[Anthony Weston]

Interesting, I enjoyed the article.

I'd go with a 2oz plastic groundcloth and a large foam pad cut to my thighs.
I have a 3.6 oz tarp which in the rain is worth it's weight in gold.
All 3 weigh less and function better than a 19 oz foam pad but each to his own.

If there is a storm that is the time to be putting more things in your pack and not taking them out and as Andrew Shurka says, "Nothing is warm when wet" but I like fleece. Oddly enough the best warmth to weight fleece I'm found is by Landsend (inexpensive and 8.8 oz for a medium) very warm when dry.

Each trip is different and you bring what you need to cope with the conditons that you face. Last week in Tuolumne it was 100 degrees and I had sunscreen and was glad I did.
In April I left the sunscreen on the dashboard of my car by mistake and I did not notice hiking in but that night I saw my forearms were roasted like rotisserie chicken so I made sure I had it on the next trip. The mosquitoes were out in droves, I had a bug net to cover my face and in camp my duomid had a screen door and screen floor sewn in which I like much better than an inner net setup, more room and no nets in your face. I suppose I could have rolled in the river mud, when I was 16 on a survial overnight we tried this and it was fun.

You bring what works for you and if it's UL or SUL or dam heavy who cares as long as it's not on my back and everyone has fun and comes back safe – caked in mud or not.

And I always enjoy reading about Ryan's tecniques, not for everyone, I have no use for a hand ax (again when I was 16 in scouts we discovered we could split logs by smashing them with boulders) but I understand why he likes to use it when wood is wet, each man to his own tools. It's fun to push boundries and see what works as long as the weather gods are in a gentle mood.

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