Why a knife instead of scissors?

[michael levi]

A nice is pretty much a requirement for saftey and survival outdoors.

Anyone telling you otherwise thinks an extra 1 oz is a sin.

[Dena Kelley]

I think it's doomed because you started a thread with a preexisting bias and didn't like the responses and then you got snarky and judgmental about it. Yes, some people brought up bushcraft when you explicitly excluded it. And many others, such as myself, brought up food prep which you did *not* exclude. Others brought up improvisation which you are including as bushcraft, when it's not. Since many UL folks here use Bushbuddy's and the like, firecraft should not be lumped into bushcraft either. You have a myopic view of what UL is and is not, and a bias against knives. No one is trying to convince you to carry a knife. But the way I see it, since you had a bias to start with and didn't actually want to know "why a knife instead of scissors?" then you shouldn't have asked the question. Then you wouldn't be annoyed will all us "knife enthusiasts" that don't fit into your narrow definition of UL.

[Stephen Barber]

Since your definition of "woodcraft" seems to be anything not having to do with your kit and what you've brought with you, and you have crafted your kit ("kitcraft"?) to avoid the use of a knife, it seems there is nothing left for you to use a knife on. Congratulations! You've answered your own question!

May you never experience something unexpected in the bush where a small but sturdy blade would have made the difference for you. HYOH.

[Nick Gatel]

This thread is crazy.

When I take a Classic SAK, I use the scissors most of the time. When I take a plain knife, DermaSafe, or razor blade I use the blade. For most daily tasks either a knife or scissors will work.

Go buy the knife or scissors you want. Don't ask for permission from BPL.

I could care less about what Ryan Jordan, Andrew Skukra, Ray Jardine, etc. carry. They are not gods.

If you constantly find yourself in survival situations where you need a knife to survive you are probably doing something wrong.

[John Donewar]

A voice of reason crying out from the wilderness.

Thank you Nick!

Party On,

Newton

[Brian Lindahl]

I thought it was pretty obvious that woodcraft is anything to do with wood (firewood, making stuff, improvising, etc). I guess not?

> Others brought up improvisation which you are including
> as bushcraft, when it's not.

I never said anything about bushcraft in my original post. I very clearly stated I wanted to exclude woodcraft and people who carry large functional knives.

> But the way I see it, since you had a bias to start with
> and didn't actually want to know "why a knife instead of
> scissors?" then you shouldn't have asked the question.
> Then you wouldn't be annoyed will all us "knife
> enthusiasts" that don't fit into your narrow definition
> of UL.

I don't have a bias against knives. I carry a "large" functional one on day hikes to improvise in emergencies. It stays with my space blanket, headlamp and emergency firestarter. When I backpack, I have a backpack full of other stuff that covers my arse in emergencies, and thus, don't need a large functional knife.

I'm not annoyed with you because you have a different point of view. I'm annoyed with you (and a few other special folks) because you are completely ignoring the whole point of this thread, which is VERY clearly stated in the original post.

> Go buy the knife or scissors you want. Don't ask for
> permission from BPL.

I'm not asking for permission. I'm wondering if there's common daily tasks (NOT related to wood) where knives work better than scissors. I'd like to bring scissors, but I'd like to know about people who have experience bringing them or both scissors and knives – and what tasks (NOT related to wood) they use for each on a regular basis.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Scissors are good for precise trimming and grooming and probably at a par with a small knife for opening a food package. If too small, the utility suffers, so having small scissors as part of a small knife provides a handle with options. 0.75oz

A small knife, like a light paring knife, is better for food prep. 1oz with sheath

Medium sized Swiss Army knives can cover both functions in the 2-3oz range. In researching this discussion, I found the Victorinox Compact model that has scissors and blade plus a few more functions and 2.3oz. I think that is a fair compromise.

I'm not much for woodcraft, but one of the major reasons I carry a pocket knife is for aiding fire building in an emergency. That doesn't require a big knife, but a locking blade is stronger and safer I think.

IMHO, cutting tools like the Dermasafe aren't very useful. I have included a single edge razor blade in my emergency supplies and they are lighter, cheaper and still as useful as a Dermasafe. I used clear shipping tape as a "sheath."

I see that the Swisscard scissors can be purchased seperately: http://www.swissarmy.com/us/app/product/Swiss-Army-Knives/Replacement-Scissors-SwissCard/30521

Embroidery scissors can be very light and provide far better utility than the tiny ones on a Swiss Army knife.

[EndoftheTrail]

How about carrying a blade like this guy did — and for three whole years!?!

[Jan S]

"I'm not asking for permission. I'm wondering if there's common daily tasks (NOT related to wood) where knives work better than scissors. I'd like to bring scissors"

Cutting food. If you don't need or want to do that, then no.

And judging from your initial post you already had the question answered for yourself and should probably just have asked for some lightweight scissors. But the way you asked is – in my opinion – a great starting point for a flame war about personal style

[Larry De La Briandais]

Seems like a lot has been made out of this point (safety). Do you need a knife to be safe. I want one myself, but that is because that is what I prefer to use. Regardless of what one takes with them into the wilderness, you should have the ability to start a fire in an emergency. Even though you have plenty of insulating stuff with you as it all can be compromised in an accident. To make a fire I want a knife larger than a swiss army classic, but that's me.

As far as the OT, I find that I use the knife blade way more often than the scissors, even when they will both do the job. For me the knife blade is faster and easier. And since I do sometimes do food prep it works better for that also. I always have both, but rarely use the scissors. Others of course rarely use the blade. It appears that it all comes down to personal preference. Both a knife blade and scissors can do the job, it just depends on which one you prefer to use.

Oh yeah, BTW, I've cut myself worse with scissors than a knife. Trying to open a box with scissors, and using it like a knife.

[Max Dilthey]

There's something familiar about this debate. Can't put my finger on it…

Deja Vu!

[Josh Brock]

LOL just use your scissors and pray that nothing fatal happens to your shelter or sleeping bag. (cause that never happens to any one.)

cutting mole skin, Second-Skin, bandaids, gauze.
opening plastic food packaging.
trimming fabric or thread during field repairs.
trimming finger / toenails.

All that can be handled with teeth or cut ahead of time. So in your narrow veiw of your very specific scenario in your perfect world I would bring neither.

GICH!

[Nick Gatel]

"There's something familiar about this debate. Can't put my finger on it…"

Max, when I started backpacking there was no Internet, no backpacking books, and no backpacking magazines. We bought gear, went out and hiked, and figured things our for ourselves. Heck, I backpacked for years and didn't know there was such a thing as a backpacking stove. Our gear source was Army/Navy surplus stores, swap meets, and department stores for the most part. And most of us figured out how to go light on our own and what gear/equipment worked best.

[Josh Brock]

^^^oldest backpacker ever

[James Byrnes]

I found myself in a situation where I had forgotten to install the plastic tips on tent poles I had cut to a custom length. I carved new wooden tips from the inner wood of a pine branch. First attempt with the Swiss classic failed , very flimsy. I also carried a small folder (BUCK .65 oz), worked very well. Can't always plan for the unexpected.

[Ian]

Just wanted to check that scissors and knives aren't in someway a euphemism in this thread for ending world hunger or finding a cure for AIDS.

Of course I'm a trolling hypocrite who spent half of yesterday taking about the finer aspects of pooping.

Carry on.

[Josh Brock]

James that will NEVER happen to him. he already stated his gear will never fail.

[Kattt]

"If you know of a task (NOT woodcraft) that a knife would have performed better than scissors, I want to hear about it. That's what I created this thread for. Thanks!"

Cutting a piece of cheese, a piece of bread. Taking out a splinter. Scissors work better ( a little) for opening wrapped food and maybe cutting off that damn hair that one other guy thinks women should not have ;)
Flaming and kidding aside, it does seem that you already have the answer for yourself. A minimal blade, a minimal set of scissors, whatever works for you does not mean it is better for everyone else.
I am all about tools and efficiency. Daily I carry a small knife, a small ViseGrip and a pen. Yes, I can survive without, but they all come in handy very regularly.

[Brian UL]

One thing I don't hear a lot about is the fact that as nice as razor blades are, they cannot be resharpened. You throw them out and buy more. If they go dull or break on the trail your sh!t outa luck.
That's where a knife is better IMHO if you take care of it , it will last a lifetime and can be resharpened anywhere with some improv or sandpaper.

[Nick Gatel]

"That's where a knife is better IMHO if you take care of it , it will last a lifetime and can be resharpened anywhere with some improv or sandpaper"

True. My Classic SAK is about 30 years old and I have never sharpened the blade. Hopefully I won't die because the blade isn't sharp enough :)

[Josh Brock]

I like to take a file and sharpen my thumb nail before I leave. It's 0 grams so it completely follows the rules of UL backpacking. Then i dont have to bring my luxury knife or scissors.

[David Thomas]

Josh: I glue epoxy garnet powder to the surface of my other thumbnail so I can touch up the edge on my knife/thumbnail.

[Jerry Adams]

If you sharpen your fingernail it's actually negative weight since you're removing some of the weight of your fingernail

[Nick Larsen]

Wait, why can't a razor blade be resharpened? I must have missed something.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fixed blade guy all the way, but if it is made of metal, it can be resharpened.

Personally, I don't mind seeing these threads come up more than once. It's good to see what works for other people, and why. Not everyone sees every thread, and there are constantly new people joining the forum. Personally, I've learned a lot on here and have changed my mind/opinion on a lot of things by reading why someone chooses one approach over another.

Just because I don't want to rely on a single exacto blade, doesn't mean I think less of those that do, or think they are wrong. I would assume it works the other way around, but it seems some people get really defensive about there choices? Same with the poop thread, some people kinda get hostel when people do things a different way than them…
What happened to HYOH?

[David Thomas]

>"One thing I don't hear a lot about is the fact that as nice as razor blades are, they cannot be resharpened."

oh, but they can be resharpened.

Try this on a shaving razor in a handle. It could be a $0.19 Bic or a Sensor 3-bladed model.

When it's gotten noticeably dull through use, hone the blade (stropping, really) on leather. Not full-grain leather, but on the back side or on suede. The back side of a leather belt works really well. Push the razor backwards – at exactly shaving angle, but in the reverse direction (you're honing the blade, not shaving the leather). Use moderate pressure. Repeat about 20 times. It takes about 10 seconds with practice.

Back in my Boy Scout days, I'd always finish any knife sharpening job by stropping the edge until I could shave with it (by wetting arm hairs with spit and checking). Nowadays, I'll do it in a pinch, like when I'm on a business trip and my shaving razor is a bit dull, I can get back close to new.

Edited because Nick and I cross-posted: Yeah, and if the razor blade had a perceptible nick in it, you could use a fine whetstone or the UL version: a patch of fine emery cloth on a flat surface. For coarser work: 2-3 inches of 1-inch wide plumbers sandpaper on a flat surface. Cloth-backed, water-proof, designed to sand metal.

Yes, HYOH, CYOBlade (or not). I'm cool with you carrying a fixed blade, I doubt I ever will. I have some admiration for those who go all the way to a single-edge razor blade. I'm happy in the middle with my SAK Classic.

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