Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping

[Benjamin Smith]

Companion forum thread to:

Roundtable Discussion: Winter Hiking and Camping

[Bill Fornshell]

Ben,

Is it my computer or is the volume (sound quality) on this Podcast a little low?

[Kenneth Knight]

Bill, you are right the volume is a bit lower this time around. On some computers it will sound great; on others (like yours or my parents) a bit quiet. We had some recording issues which you can hear in the slight echoe of some participants and bumping up volume makes that more noticeable. Some of this is out of our control given the nature of the recording technologies employed and the locations the recording is done.

Hopefully you were able to listen to the show and get something out of it nonetheless. I fully intend, as I noted at the start of the podcast, to have more of these discussions.

[Douglas Frick]

You might mention to the participants not to breath into the microphone. One person was doing that for several minutes while someone else was speaking. Evidently this isn't mixed.

Still, I enjoyed the podcast. Keep up the good work.

[Kenneth Knight]

I'm curious on what you are basing your belief the podcast isn't mixed is based upon? Perhaps what you meant to suggest was that this was not a double-ender (or more precisely 5-ender) recorded podcast. If it had been removing breathing from one person would be possible (though time consuming).

This isn't really the place to discuss such things, but the podcast was mixed. The particpants had widely varied mics running the gamut from built-in computer mics to studio quality. That is the single biggest reason outside of microphone use technique that you har variations in how people sounded.

[Douglas Frick]

Sorry I wasn't clear on "mixing." Yes, I meant multi-track editing. It was clear that there were multiple audio sources being combined, and that was done well.

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Ken,
I tried the Podcast on a second computer I have. I have a Mac Lap Top but the volume was the same. I have a head phone jack on the Lap Top. I dug out my 10 or 15 year old Sony WalkMan and got the head phones. The Walkman plug is the same size as used on the LapTop.

Big difference. The good news is that I could hear everything really well. Even what I didn't want to hear. That is a joke.

I thought the content was great. I expect to listen to it again and make a few notes. Lots of great information and many different ideas for gear.

[Walter Underwood]

Thanks, this was interesting. I was listening on my car radio (from my iPod), so I didn't make notes of the gear that was mentioned. I see a couple of lists in the accompanying article, but a quick list of items mentioned by each participant would be nice.

Using a stove inside an igloo made me really concerned about carbon monoxide. I see that ventilation is mentioned in the igloo article, but a mention of stoves in enclosed spaces should always include a CO warning.

I was a bit surprised at how many of you use PowerMax stoves since they are not especially lightweight. We just chose those for our Boy Scout troop and I wrote that up as Choosing Stoves for Boy Scouts.

Having people from different regions was very good. I did occasionally lose track of the relationships, Mike=Idaho, Ken=Michigan, and so on. It would help if the participants said "in Colorado" or whereever more often.

Overall, a great start to the series.

[Kenneth Knight]

Walter, I can't address your specific questions but hopefully Will will weigh in on this.

I would like to point out the articles Roger Caffin wrote on carbon monxide accumulation within shelters. You can find Part 1 on theory here and part 2 which deals with experiments and results here. At least based on these results the danger is a lot less than you might think. Of course you should be careful when cooking in a confined space but my guess is you are more likely to cause yourself harm by accidentally touching the stove flame or knocking it over before you ever feel any effects from CO poisoning.

You're right the PowerMax is hardly the lightest thing going. When it works it works wonderfully well without the potential fuss and muss of say my MSR Whisperlite XGK. But as I note in the podcast I have had more than my share of trouble too – as Ryan says probably not enough practice.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Walter

> Using a stove inside an igloo made me really concerned about carbon monoxide. I see that ventilation is mentioned in the igloo article, but a mention of stoves in enclosed spaces should always include a CO warning.

The amount of CO released by a stove varies considerably, depending on the stove. You might be surprised at how they vary. The series on CO mentioned by Ken will get you started on understanding more about this, and we will be publishing a survey of canister stoves and their CO emissions quite soon.

As to igloos, the same does apply. Experienced igloo users know they have to have a vent hole in the roof. Actual CO measurements in igloos do not show a significant hazard in practice. The snow walls seem to leak a bit.

Hysterical warnings against use in a tent by some stove manufacturers do no-one any good at all however. At 10,000 ft in mid winter in a howling snow storm you are NOT going to be cooking outside, but you ARE going to be dependent on your stove for food and water, and survival. Knowledge is better than fear.

As to the PowerMax stoves like the Xtreme – well, we use them because they are so reliable in mid-winter when 'upright' canister stoves generally do not work. They are lighter and more reliable and MORE powerful than the liquid fuel alternatives. What more could you want?

[Walter Underwood]

I somehow missed those articles. They are great. Thanks.

My blog post on the Exponent Xpert stoves links to Roger Caffin's excellent review of them at Backpack Gear Test. Small world.

[B H]

Not to complain or anything, but the podcast link in this article opens up the "Can NOLS go light" podcast. An excellent article in its own right, to be sure, but not what I had in mind!

[Steve Parr]

I shot a note to support. As per their reply, they are aware of it and will fix it soon …

[karl hafner]

A very well done exercise in the basics of winter camping/backpacking. I have two concerns. There is good data to show that an uncovered head can be the source of a very large amount of heat lost – well over 50% and a covering is important. It is very easy to use your hands and head as effective radiators in winter. When cold they must be covered. Sweating should be avoided. I too like plenty of fluids and anything that taste good and can be used hot is even better. Be careful with coffee, tea, colas and chocolate as these contain methyl xanthines and are known diuretics (that means you loose fluids when you consume them). They can be counterproductive and result in a net fluid loss. They also may mean that you have to get up at nite to pee. That's the last thing I want to do at 30 below. K Hafner MD

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