Big Sky International – Evolution 2P Tent (Why and How I Got One)

[drowning in spam]

Chris, when you get your tent, would you be up for sharing some important details? Doing it with good macro pictures would be awesome.

We already know Bob is a good tent designer, we don't know if his new tent factory is any good. I'd love to see how tautly it pitches so we can see if the cut is correct. Macro shots of the seams, corners and attachment points would show how the fabric is cut, if the seams are straight, how seams are ended and reinforced, and how attachment points are reinforced….I think interior shots of those would be best.

As to your last comment, this site has a history of dog piling onto cottage companies. I don't like it either.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely Eugene, that was my intent anyway. I just found it hard to come up with any information on these so I figured I could contribute my documenting it myself.

Still a little overwhelmed by the paranoia in here… :”,Scalawag”

[David Affleck]

Maybe I'm just missing it, but I did just scan the thread twice looking – how much does this tent (Rev 2P) weigh?

– Dave

[Michael L]

You BSI guys may be perfectly legit. But you can drop the paranoia – negative energy line of attacks.

Chris you showed perfect knowledge of BSI's previous BS yet pretended otherwise. So I have no problem calling you on it.

And I do not think it is the least bit unusual for some of us to hold to our principles. I don't care if Morlen is on time now. Somebody who has revealed low moral character in the past without apology doesn't deserve a second chance. I don't care what he's up to these days. It isn't just BSI. If somebody treats me or my aquantices poorly, I don't feel the need to later give them my money.

But welcome to BPL and I hope you will contribute a trip report with pictures from your JMT hike. It is great to have good quality images in a TR.

[Raymond Estrella]

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bsi_evolution_2p_tent_review

Why does yours have pole sleeves? You say it is an older model but you just bought it, right?

I really liked it but am on a waiting list for a Revolution 2P which will work better in all the rain I see now that I am full time in Minnesota.

By the way, somebody said the Revolution is a hybrid double-wall tent. That is not so. It is a double-wall tent, it just supports the inner from the fly with the poles on the outside, whereas the Evo has the poles between the two. (Poles support the inner and fly drapes over that.)

[Sam Farrington]

The BSI threads always suck me in because of the questions they raise:

If you think you have a shot at getting the ideal tent, should it matter to you that many other folks who ordered them got bilked?

And, if the merchant has a history of dishonesty can you trust the quality of the merchandise, or believe the claims made about it? You can bet a decent product would be sent to a BP or BPL reviewer, but what about to ordinary folk, if sent at all.

I used to work for judges, who would regularly remind me that, 'tigers don't change their stripes," and "false in one, false in all." (loose translation from the Latin)
I'm not quite that callused; but definitely do not like the idea of supporting someone just because it will get me what I want, no matter the effect on others.
I suppose it's a matter of your own personal moral outlook. But they all add up to determine what kind of world we live (and die) in. I often read novels about life in Russia, and how people have coped in desperate straits.

A related note: The Limmer family of custom boot makers in NH have operated a business where there is a wait for several years. But you know up front approximately how long it will be, and when your time comes, they deliver.
Custom gear can be made and sold in an honest and upright fashion.

[Derrick White]

I have to digest all this with a bit of humor, and state for the record that I am in no way affiliated with BSI. I am a lawyer in the frontier of northeastern Canada (Labrador)who is prepared to give a guy (a company) a chance. As for those of you who now wrongly accuse of me of being involved with BSI because I speak positively of a company which you don't like, whatever your intent, regardless of how worthy, you have lost the moral high ground because what you are saying if false.

I just want to talk tents.

Derrick White
Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada
709-722-0637

[Michael L]

Don't know if anybody is even talking to you or about you (ive never addressed you) Derrick but feel free to keep your high ground.

[Chris Scala]

You guys will be happy to know I'll have detailed images for you on Thursday, when the tent arrives. It's on it's way across the country via UPS.

Regardless of what previous experiences were had (which I never pretended to deny… I think someone is reading far too much into my words), I had an exceedingly positive one. I can't think of any other seller I've been in touch with as much as this guy… My inbox literally has about 25 emails back and forth.

[David Ure]

Derrick – did you just post your phone number on the web?

@Chris – looking forward to the pics!

[First Last]

Two brand new users posting nothing but gushing endorsements of Big Sky's "customer service" even though neither of them have even received a tent yet. Hmmm…

It has been a long time since Bob Molen posted here himself with repeated promises: just six to ten more weeks and we'll have a handle on these temporary delivery / production problems. Then a flurry of angry posts as people who had ordered and paid started to realize that no tent would ever arrive.

Now five more years have gone by and even though the Big Sky web site has been up and they supposedly have been selling tents for all these years there are basically no reviews, no trip reports, and in fact almost no sightings at all of Big Sky tents.

And you two think we're being suspicious for no good reason?

[Jeffs Eleven]

Well put, Kristin

Time will tell

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I won't consider a BS tent until they are under new ownership, and, stocked at a third party retailer where they can be bought off the shelf.

This whole 'give a guy a chance' crap pretends all the people yanked around *for years* were doing something other than giving the guy a chance.

[Chris Scala]

I never said you didn't have a right to be wary of the company, but you are being completely overly paranoid accusing two innocent posters of whether they are EMPLOYED BY THE COMPANY. Are you realizing how insane that is? You think that this guy has the resources to hire two random people to infiltrate a message board?

That is absurd. I posted ALL of my personal information on this site, for you skeptics to verify. The reception here is leaving such a terrible taste in my mouth I can barely take half of you seriously anymore. If you were so concerned, why not just warn us that WE might get screwed?

– I've lurked on BPL for over a year now. I have read Ray Jardine's books, Mike Clelland's book, topics from all over the web, and finally feel I have something to contribute.

– I'm in the market for a new tent, so I read everything on shelters on here. Find a recommendation for BSI.

– Do about a week's research, determine it's worth a shot. Contact Bob, post EVERYTHING on here for you all to see, since my experience seemed different.

– Now I'm getting accused of being apart of some ludicrous marketing scheme.

So much for welcoming, peace-loving, mellow backpacker types. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Here guys, want my address too? Let's all follow my tent across the US with my UPS tracking number OK?

Here: 1Z9X963X1292607391

Want my phone number as well? It's on my website. Feel free to call me up 24/7.

[Dave Heiss]

I for one am looking forward to more info on the Big Sky tents you two have ordered. I really like BSI's design approach, although their prices do give me pause. If the tents rock, they may be worth the money. Time will tell, and in that vein I hope to soon see your opinions on the tents themselves – as opposed to more opinions/past experiences related to BSI's poor business practices. I already know PLENTY about that…

[Chris Scala]

Dave, that's all I wanted to do from the beginning… I found there was alarmingly little information on these tents and as a photographer and enthusiast thought I could change that. If I get screwed over, then boy is my face red – but if not, then I'd like to at least document what I got.

[Todd Dorman]

For what it is worth, I too purchased an Evolution 2P last year (despite having read all the craziness re BSI on the BPL forum). Received my tent inside of two weeks and used it through the summer and fall. Great customer service. Tent is bombproof and 4 pounds lighter than what I was using. I don't work in the business nor am I a shill. Just a longtime lurker on this board.

[Michael L]

There are plenty of people and companies that get paid nominal fees to post positive reviews on websites. It is a booming business. Small companies do it and so do large. Tripadvisor recently pulled one companies positive reviews after discovering just such a scheme.

People would have just warned you Chris if you hadn't posted such a beautiful advertising piece nominally titled a review with pictures (stolen from the web?) before you ever even had the tent. You posted in your ad piece that you wanted people to give this company a chance along with other cottage guys….before you even knew if you would get screwed like others. Your whole posting history is fishy.

Odd that you are a long term lurker. Happen to find a review on BSI and get one? Really? With all the negative stuff, THAT is the company you just happen to make your intro with?

And I don't see much on your site.

[drowning in spam]

Todd, did you get aluminum or carbon poles?

I want to ask you about the quality, but it seems you got your tent from the old factory.

[Dave T]

"Exhausted dozens of options, settled on this tent… awesome customer service…
I want to stress that I am not affiliated with this company in anyway…
their site was full of well-designed tents, with well-conceived options, and variations that made sense for all sorts of different purposes… Within about an hour, I was surprised to find an email from the man himself, Bob Molen, who it is my understanding owns the company, and is responsible for much of the design….this awesome tent…. so within 24 hours, I went from lusting over this item, to it being on it's way… I felt insanely privileged, since others spoke of such long wait times… Big Sky will not charge your card until your item ships… You will not be out any money by placing an order… I noticed that Bob Molen went and made an account just to rectify those customer issues, apologetically and with accommodation… it is a small business, making niche products, with niche materials, and a specific manufacturing process that requires care and industry know-how. The fact he has been doing this for over 7 years now, despite many hang-ups along the way, constantly revising the product, really shows that he cares about what he is selling… the customer service is personal and fast… exactly what I was looking for in a tent… something that could appease a casual weekend warrior I take along with me, as well as something I could use on a thru-hike without feeling like I have to play by my tent's rules… I wanted to use this thread as a journal of my experience with this transaction in hopes it may instill some confidence in their products…"

This is all prior to receiving the item, and with apparenty knowledge of years of failed promises and financial malfeasance on the part of BS. I'm sure this could just be a rosy posting about an undelivered tent, but even if that's all it is, you need to understand the long and extremely poor history of BS, and not just dismiss it as "something in the past… shoot, give the guy a chance!"

[Todd Dorman]

Eugene, I went with aluminum poles. I now wish I would have paid the extra upon ordering and I've been considering upgrading to the carbon just to shave a few ounces. Quality is top-notch in my (old factory) product, so I can't speak for the new manufacturing facility. I've used a tyvek footprint (5.4 oz) and had zero issues with wear and tear on the floor. Suffered through eight straight nights of rain in Yosemite last fall without a leak or any visible condensation.

[Chris Scala]

Michael, I am about ready to tell you go to F yourself. You are crazy. I don't know what more you want from me.

I wish I was getting paid for the amount of crap I am dealing with from you guys.

What the heck do you mean you DON'T SEE MUCH ON MY SITE? It is my portfolio of my BUSINESS. My business that contains NOTHING TO DO WITH "SHILL ACCOUNTS ON MESSAGEBOARDS". In fact, I've been on communities since I was 13 years old, eagerly and honestly pouring my heart out across the web, and no one has ever called me a shill. I'm literally shaking as I'm writing this because you have made me so mad.

Do you want my LinkedIn? My Facebook? Instagram? eBay account? 2+ years of reddit post history? NJ/NY Trail Comission Membership Card? Checking account information?

[Chris Scala]

Dave – I'm sorry my post was too "rosy" for you. I didn't find myself embittered by reading posts of past issues with the company. In fact I was riding out the happiness of finding a good product, getting in touch with what I felt was a friendly man, and excited to receive something I could take with me on a long awaited trip.

I'm sorry my happiness with my transaction spilled over into my post. I am a good writer. I'm sorry that comes off as an advertisement. I was detailing why the tent was right for me. I've read thousands of posts on here of people lauding Tarp Tent, MLD, SMD, etc… In fact some strike me entirely like advertisements, so much so that I spent months researching these brands without any prior knowledge of them.

I guess you're right, I wasn't angry enough. I shouldn't have been so excited to get this tent.

Your guys tactics have worked, though… I was excited, now I fear the worst, now I'm distraught by the harassment I've been getting, now all the fun is completely sucked out of waiting for it. I couldn't care less about this effing tent now. I'm completely bitter about the entire thing, just like the rest of you now. Happy?

[Chris Scala]

As promised, on Thursday I will post pictures of the tent. Afterwards, do not expect to hear from me again.

You have made this an entirely unwelcome place to be… I will stick to Whiteblaze and Reddit where members are not so, well, insane.

[drowning in spam]

Chris, you can post the pics on Whiteblaze instead if you wish. I'm on there too.

[Author]

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