A couple questions on Phlmont (tents, gaiters, boots).

[Bill Rose]

We're planning a Philmont trip in 2013 and preparations have begun. The troop went in 2009 so we have some of the logistics worked out but this will be the first trip for many of us. I have a couple questions:
1. We have light-weight backpacking tents that were used in 2009 and have been subsequently used for troop camping since. I'm sure some scouts have eaten in these tents, so is there any way to wash, rinse & repeat to get any smells from the tents?
2. We'll be wearing light-weight mid-height boots and I'm thinking of making some DIY gaiters. I've seen both sides of the conversation (necessary/not necessary at Philmont). So, are low gaiters a help/hindrance at Philmont?
3. How many of you have hiked Philmont in trail shoes vs. boots? If we plan on packing lightly, is it advisable to wear a much lighter shoe or if the boys have decent light-weight boots, is that really the best way to go?

I'm sure I'll be having more questions as it gets nearer so thanks in advance to any responses. :)

[Carl Zimmerman]

I'll add my $0.02 worth…

1. I'd wash and dry your tents w/ water only. Soap adds another smell. Just air out the tents for a day or two.
2. I always wear gaiters. Personal preference. I think it helps keeps gunk out of your shoes/boots and keeps your socks a little cleaner (very little). I tell this to all the youth I've taken on Philmont treks (3 treks so far). To date, no youth have ever worn gaiters. They occasionally have to stop and empty out their boots. I don't.
3. If their pack weight is light, they can go w/ lighter footwear. I think it's more important that their footwear fits well. I suggest that the youth NOT buy Goretex footwear. I think its hotter and increases the likelihood for blisters.

Have a great hike. Hopefully, I'll be going back for a 4th trek in 2013 (high on the waiting list right now).

[M B]

Encourage them to wear trail runners. Parents should like this because its a footwear they can actually get more use out of, wear around town, to school, etc.

It is amazingly hard to dissaude people from the heavily ingrained stereotype that you have to have boots to go outdoors. Thats all it is, an image, and marketing.

Boots are great for tramping thru heavy brush, sticks, debris, puddles. They simply arent needed on most trails.

[Sarah Kuhn]

I ended up wearing very thin long pants the entire time due to the awful trail dust at Philmont and plan to do the same again this summer. One of the other adults on my prior trek wished he had gaiters (he had heavier pants and didn't want to hike in them due to the 'heat' – he even tried making gaiters out of the zip off portion of the pant legs.)
The kids tend to scuff their feet alot as they walk so they kick up a sizeable dust cloud that I got to hike through….. the pants kept the dust out of my boots and kept my legs relatively clean vs the kids were pretty nasty above the sock/boot line.
Trail dust didn't seem to bother the kids….. see what works for you.
Sarah

[Mark Rash]

I am going to Philmont in June. I'm planning to wear both long pants (REI Sahara zip-offs) and Dirty Girl Gaiters.

[Bill Rose]

Thanks guys. Good comments. The kids don't normally eat in the tents but an occasional Cliff bar or something similar has probably been eaten, so a good washing is warranted. Gaiters sound like a good idea so I'll make a pair for me and my son and pass on the pattern to the rest of our crews. I have some fairly light Garmont Zenith GTX mid boots that are very comfortable so I'll most likely stick with them but I won't demand the boys wear heavy hikers. Staying light so that they'll be comfortable in light boots or trail running shoes sounds like a great idea.

[Glenn Smith]

Bill,

Try this product for washing your gear – Active Wash (http://www.trek7.com/products/active-wash-outdoor-and-patio-fabric-cleaner). It does a terrific job. I used it after our Philmont trek this past summer. It was a really dusty trek due to the lack of rain so everything was coated in dust and dirt. It took a few soakings and rinses but everything looked like new again. It can be used for just about everything.

+1 on the Dirty Girl Gaiters. They are terrific. I use them for all my hiking here in the Tucson area and at Philmont.

I use trail runners (Inov-8). Determine what the best shoe (boot or trail runner) and sock combination work best for your feet then stick with it. +1 on the GoreTex issue. Waterproof shoes in the southwest just don't make sense. This is the case at Philmont. I used Vasque Sundowners in 2007 and switched to trail runners for the subsequent treks. Get in the habit of cleaning your feet daily as well as using a clean pair of socks. I take three pair of the same socks ~ low cut socks; two for hiking and one for sleeping but that pair can be used in the rotation. Rinse out a pair each morning and then hang on your pack to dry. I think the combination of the socks and the shoes can make or break the trek. Also, blisters really don't present themselves on shakedown hikes but they will be prevalent at Philmont in places you can't imagine.

I take a pair of Mountain Hardwear convertible pants. I hike in shorts and use the zip-on bottoms as needed for cold temps, conservation work, horse riding, spar pole climbing, etc. I just make sure I keep myself clean each day.

Glenn

[David Olsen]

"Boots are great for tramping thru heavy brush, sticks, debris, puddles. They simply arent needed on most trails."

For people in shape for it. Have witnessed several trip ending ankle twists by
kids hiking in runners.

[peter vacco]

peter knows more about boots, and destroying your feet, as well as multiple thousands of dollars worth of trips being ruined, and loss of totally irreplaceable time, than almost anybody.
you can use any kind of boot you want.
and they will all pretty much cause a lot of trouble.

runners, of low and lighter boots will fare much much better.
it's philmont for goodness sake, not eff'n K2.
they will be fine.
you'll get driven nuts .. but the kids will be fine.

you can soak the stench out of tents most of the time with … gott'a remember the name .. is from mcnett, and it eats smells and funk out of things … it might even de-stink the smell of scout's feet. maybe.
… MiraZyme.. that's it !
use that, it will destink almost anything.

[Bill Rose]

Good point on Philmont being the desert and not full of thickets and brambles, which is exactly the sort of hiking we do on the east coast. I think our (eastern) mind-set is just that: Thick brush, occasionally muddy, and prickly bushes that tug at your shins and ankles. Obviously Philmont is not that. Well-worn trails of sand and rock that don't require the type of boots sold/peddled by the Establishment (maybe Ray Jardine is right…). Thanks for the input. Here's the link to the mini gaiters I'm thinking making: http://adventurelisa.blogspot.com/2009/11/make-your-own-mini-gaiters.html

[Sarah Kuhn]

Just remember that not EVERY trail at Philmont is a dusty, well worn path…. the ankle twisters are everywhere…

[ed dzierzak]

+1 on the Dirty Girl's

http://dirtygirlgaiters.com/

Keeps the trail out of my shoes/boots…

[Bill Rose]

Great shots! Very valuable in ascertaining footwear and what we might experience there. Thanks!

[John Myers]

Good photos and shows the reality of some of the trails there.

But the question still remains, is it better to hike those trails in boots or trail runners?

I took boots last time but am using trail runners this year. I just think less weight on my feet translates to less tiredness. Less tiredness translates to less chance to stumble or trip.

[David Olsen]

Everyone should be in shape for the trip. Make sure all train in the shoes they
will wear. Ankles will be strong and shoes broken in. If they haven't done a
bunch of hiking on rough trails with a pack and low top shoes before they go,
a multi day trip is not the time to start.

[Michael Ray]

> less weight on my feet translates to less tiredness. Less tiredness translates to less chance to stumble or trip.

+1!

> If they haven't done a bunch of hiking on rough trails with a pack and low top shoes before they go, a multi day trip is not the time to start.

+1!

[Phil Barton]

+1 for trail running shoes. Your feet will be happy.

I also have used low gaiters and found them helpful.

Phil

[Dylan Flanagan]

I was a ranger on staff last summer and am planning on coming back this summer. I used trail runners most of the time, but I did still use heavier Gore-Tex boots when the ranch got a lot of rain, especially late in the summer.

There are a lot of rocky trails so it is important to have a comfortable pair boots or trail runners. There are some really well-worn trails, but there are also some very rocky ones that do cause problems for some scouts. Have a great trek

[Walter Underwood]

Some trails at Philmont are tough, mostly the one with rocks that will roll, but most of the trails we hiked were in excellent shape.

I hiked in Vasque Blur GTX's, a shoe on the heavy end of trail runners with Gore-Tex. We didn't have much rain, so I mostly had sweaty feet. The current equivalent Vasque is the Mindbender.

I believe the best protection for your ankles is a light pack and trekking poles.

[Jim Colten]

Walter offered: I believe the best protection for your ankles is a light pack and trekking poles.

Light pack and trekking poles DO help a lot but I believe that foot fitness is even more important. David said it well:

Everyone should be in shape for the trip. Make sure all train in the shoes they
will wear. Ankles will be strong and shoes broken in. If they haven't done a
bunch of hiking on rough trails with a pack and low top shoes before they go,
a multi day trip is not the time to start.

Hike a LOT as part of your training and wear your pack starting with low weight in it and build up to at least 3/4 of max you'll carry at Philmont. Seek out rough trails like David mentioned, consciously look for bad foot placements that torque your feet and ankle some. Do all that and your feet/ankles will be strong and tough and trails like Sarah's photos depict will be no problem.

[Robert Kelly]

You need a light pack, trail runners with a little extra room for foot swelling, trekking poles, strong ankles (can work on this before you go), and Dirty Girl gaiters to keep debris out and to impress other crews with your cutting edge savoir faire.

[Douglas Prosser]

Jim is right on with the training (just walking), weight, a little extra room in the trail runners, keeping the pack light (<25lbs), and just have fun

[John Myers]

I know this thread is a little old and I already posted once, but since I just got back I wanted to weigh in on the footwear issue again.

I went in 2008 with some reasonably lightweight boots (Vasque) and just finished our 2012 trek where I wore Inov8 Rocklite 295 trail runners.

On both treks we experienced just about every kind of trail you find at Philmont and did similar mileage with similar weight packs, so I have a pretty good "apples to apples" comparison.

I can now say with certainty that I believe trail runners are superior to boots for the trails there, even the very rocky ones. I expected to have some times where I wished I had worn boots, but that never happened.

Like others have posted, foot and ankle conditioning is necessary for whatever footwear you choose.

[Scott Bentz]

I agree on the Trail Runners. I got our whole troop to wear trail runners or just running shoes. Of course, this was coupled with light pack weights. I remember when we got to one camp. We went to the staff cabin for our orientation and site assignment. It was a rock climbing camp and the staff member told us to head to our campsite to take off our boots and change into… he just stopped and said he had never seen a whole troop that all had trail runners. Pretty funny. The boys just dropped their packs in camp and headed up to the climbing wall.

[david richardson]

John, What kind of sock did you use with 295 roclite's? thanks, dave

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