Philmont cooking

[Donald Howard]

I used one of those folding windshield sunshades. Cut with the foil side in, into whatever shape and size you need. Then staple and tape it together. If you really want to make it easy just cut a piece big enough wrap your meal up in and secure it with rubber bands. Cheap, lightweight and works great.

[Mark Rash]

The quickest, cheapest, easiest way is to use Reflectix. Buy a 24" roll at Home Depot or Lowes. Get a quart freezer bag. Cut the Reflectix so that it's 3/4" wider than the bag and about an inch shorter than twice the height of the bag. Fold in half and duct tape the sides together. One roll of Reflectix is enough for two crews.

If you have someone in your troop who sews, you can make cozies that have a nylon outer layer sewn to an inner insulation layer made of Insulbright (it's the stuff inside hot pads).

[Ernie Delcher]

Mark,

How did your shakedown trips go? Did you use all of your meals? Any changes to your cooking method?

In one of your posts you mentioned that you were going to use a MSR Reactor w/large pot and another MSR stove w/pot. Is that still your plan? I have a Reactor w/1.7 L pot and trying to decide if I need the larger pot. Also if I should go with a 2nd Reactor or another type stove with a standard pot.

I have 2 crews (one 12, one 9). Trying to decide what will be needed (stove and pot). Considering turkey bag or freezer bag cooking.

Thanks
Ernie

[Mark Rash]

Hi Ernie:

Yes, we used up all but a couple of our Philmont meals. We're gonna finish those off on a canoe trip the weekend after next.

Both of our crews LOVE the freezer bag cooking method. Our crew of 10 is using two Reactor stoves. One stove has a 2.5L pot and the other has the standard 1.5L pot. Start by lighting both stoves and pouring water in the smaller pot first. Then pour water in the bigger pot. The smaller pot will boil first. Have everybody drop their spoon in this pot for 10 seconds or so to sterilize them. Then go ahead and pour out the water into individual zip lock bags. It will be enough for 3 people. Refill that pot and start it boiling again. The water in the 2.5L pot and the second batch of water in the 1.5L pot will boil around the same time. Fill the rest of the zip locks and everybody's food is ready within 3-4 minutes of each other. Total time boiling is less than 10 minutes. Total time from start to eating is 20 minutes or less. There is no cleanup time, just putting all the used zip lock bags and food wrappers in one bigger zip lock "trash" bag.

I've been talking with another member who is concerned my method is too complicated for kids, but both of our crews grasped this right away. I think the key is to practice it. It is also important to have a long spoon. I can't stress how nice it is NOT to have to do KP after eating.

[Mark Rash]

Ernie:

Also, concerning the Reactor stoves… they boil so fast that if you had two stoves with the smaller 1.5L pots it will still work. You'll just have to boil two pot-fulls on each stove at meal time. Everybody's meal will be ready within 3-4 minutes of each other. The first ones can just wait for everybody… the food will still be hot in the cozy.

[Ernie Delcher]

Thanks Mark!

Questions…

When you say "It will be enough for 3 people." Do you mean 3 meals or 3 people?
(confused because I thought each meal feeds 2 people).

How much water per meal is needed?

Do you use quart or gallon zip locks?

How many zip locks per person do you need for each meal?

[Mark Rash]

Hi Ernie:

Sorry for the delay in posting back.

When I say enough water for 3 people, I'm talking about three mouths. That is 1.5 meal packs. There are some packs that require 3 cups to rehydrate, which is 1-1/2 cups per person. If you push the capacity of the small Reactor pot you can get those 4-1/2 cups boiling in 3.5 minutes.

Not all meals require the same amount of water to rehydrate. It can be anywhere from 3/4 cup per person to 1-1/2 cups per person.

Each person uses one (1) quart-size Heavy Duty Zip Lock Freezer Bag per meal that has to be rehydrated.

Hope this helps!

Mark

[Peter Griffith]

Mark,
Do you wash your spoons with soap/water or just lick them clean? Then sterilize before the next meal. Same thing with cups when they give you hot chocolate or cider. Just finger wash cups with warm water?

[M B]

Not arguing against it, since it takes no time, and adds no weight.

But if you follow good cleanliness protocol, why should there be a need to do anything you dont do on a normal campout or at home?

Is it really needed or is it "just in case" ?

Realize that its the "just in case" mentality that results in heavy packs.

If you lick a spoon clean, the remaining bacteria on it are from your own mouth. I personally have never gotten sick from a spoon I have licked clean, or a cup I have previously drank out of. Or even, my own toothbrush that I scrub my mouth with every day and just lightly rinse off without benefit of soap.

Just food for thought.

We have a lot of notions of how clean and sterile things must be, that are based on total folly and commercial marketing hype.

The real issue is hand cleanliness, especially after bathroom duties, and soap is more effective than sanitizer there too.

[bill berklich]

Thx for posting the pics of the "ration packs" . Question – does anyone know the approx wgt for a days food for two? I'm guessing about 2.0 lbs? So our crew of 12 will be stepping off with about 96 lbs for 4 days. Sound about right?

[Daniel Lee]

Sorry if I've missed this in the discussion but I believe the meals are based on the dates of your trek. I.E. If you arrive at PSR on July 8, your Day 2 (first hiking day), 3 and 4 meals will be #9, #10, and #11. This continues through the trek from what I've read.

We, too, purchased a sampling so the boys could get an idea of what the meals look like. We found that each boy's share of the food amounts to roughly two 2.5 gallon ziplocs for four days. To evenly distribute, each boy has two of these ziplocs with their names on them. We hope that this will expedite redistribution in the a.m. when the bear bags come down.

BTW, we're using the turkey bag method on MSR Pocket Rockets, with two 4 qt AL and 1 6 qt AL pots, all with cozies. Plan to heat water in the small pots for stability and safety. One for cleaning and one for rehydrating.

We haven't practiced much and fully expect a steep learning curve… Adventure Awaits!

[Daniel Lee]

The two 2.5 gallon ziplocs weighed approximately 5 lbs without any repackaging. As many others have said, it's incredible how much trash is generated just from the wrappers!

Does anyone have experience with compressing used MSR cannisters? JetBoil makes a can opener device but I haven't found anything similar associated with MSR… Thanks!

[Tony Ronco]

Our troop had two crews go last year (and will have crew go next year).
For last year's trip we extensively used left over Philmont food packages that you can purchase from the previous season.

Using those packages as our data sample:

The AVERAGE weight per Scout, per Day was 2.06 pounds.

[Peter Griffith]

Does Philmont require the water to be a rolling boil while sterilizing?

We are planning to use two Jetboil Sumo stoves for boiling water and the freezer bag method for dehydrating. The Sumo pot is tall and slender so will not allow some cups to be dipped into it for sterilizing. We'd prefer not to take an extra pot for the sole purpose of sterilizing. We were thinking of taking a Sea to Summit foldable water bucket and pour boiling water from the Sumo into it to use for sterilizing. The foldable water bucket is dual purpose to bring water back to camp for cooking.

[Mark Rash]

For the spoons, we boil them before eating.

On the cups, we just pour a little hot water in them with a drop of camp soap and wash them out with the corner of a Handi Wipe.

We want to make sure that everybody either washes their hands or uses sanitizer before eating.

I'm 31 days away from our departure date!

[John Myers]

Dan, we tried pocket rockets with 4 qt pots and they seemed too unstable for us so we went to Wind Pro's.

T minus 17 days and counting for our departure.

John

[Daniel Lee]

John-
Thanks for the warning… We did have a pot of water fall over during a practice event. Even with that the boys opted for the PRs vs. whisperlites (We have a mixture in the troop)… I think the boys learned a lesson and will be more careful. If you aren't cooking, stay away…

BTW we hit the trail in 24 days! Safe travels…

[Jeff S]

In our 84 mile trek in 2009, we carried two JetBoils.

Our dinner process:
Boil Water in both stoves.
Have all boys uses hand sanitizer.
Rinse all bowls/sporks with boiling water.
Add water to each two-person dinner bag (sometimes we split it in the bowls,
but usually mixed in the bags then split after sitting..)
Lick all bowls clean.
Rinse with boiling water to sanitize bowls when done.
Cleanup was surprizingling easy.
Easy to consolidate the cooking under the dining fly (take a siltarp for the dining fly!)
Gives everyone something to do during dinner.

We'll do it the same way when we go back!

[Peter Griffith]

Jeff,
Could you explain "rinse all bowls/sporks with boiling water". Did you just pour boiling water over them with the water falling on to the ground? Did you have an extra pot and you poured water over them with the water falling in to the pot?

[Brian Legare]

I went to Philmont as a scout in 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1990 (Raydo) and am returning for the first time in 22 years. Since then I have done a number of high adventure trips using Freezer bag cooking with alcohol stoves and the Antigravity Gear caldera cones(AGG 2Q titanium pots). I use cozies made out of Reflectix and aluminum tape.

I recently found my Philmont Guide book from 1984. The Philmont issued gear list has not changed in 28 years! It is almost word-for-word identical with the only real difference being that they now issue one set of tongs now instead of two. There is absolutely no reason to cook the "Philmont" way. I remember lugging those huge cook kits and Peak One stoves around. My days of having a 50+ lb pack are long gone.

Our crew of 11 will be using the freezer bag cooking method. We have tried out a few meals and it works great. I have used Freezer Bag cooking quite successfuly on a number of other Scouting high adventure trips (off BSA property). We usually make our own meals but this time we will use the food Philmont gives us. We have been rehydrating meals in the original bag and then dumping half of it into a quart size freezer bag. We need five bags per meal fore a crew of 11. A couple people have found that they prefer to have a collapsible bowl to hold the freezer bag in. I have found that the food grade plastic storage container for my AGG caldera cone and stove also works great for this. It screws apart and splits into two usable containers (each half is 1.5 oz). Because we will not be doing dishes we will not even take the Philmont sump system, unless they make us.

We tried three stove options. Two MSR whisper lights with my 2Q pots (4.5 oz each), two Jet Boils, and two alcohol stoves (same pots but hanging in a caldera cone. Hands down the Jet Boils won. I will admit that I was skeptical of them before seeing them in action. I have loved my alcohol stoves for too long. We used slightly more fuel with the Jet Boils but in the end we save on weight because we were going to carry two bottles of white gas anyway. We calculated that we can easily do the whole trip on three 7.5 oz canisters for the Jet Boils (13oz actual weight). We will purchase additional fuel in the back country if needed.

The Jet Boils have the following benefits over the other stove options:
1) Built in measuring marks. We will heat the amount of water needed to rehyrdrate one food bag in each Jet Boil. We will do six Jet Boils of water at each meal and then a seventh to sanatize spoons at the end. No need to carry a measuring cup, scoop water, etc. Just pour the water out of the Jet Boil pot.
2) You can grab the outside of the pot when it's hot. No need for gingerly handling a hot 2L pot of water. Just grab the pot when it's done and pour it into a meal bag.
3) Built in boil indicator (changes color on the side)
4) Incredibly stable compared to the Whisper Lights. The pot locks on to the stove.
5) Incredibly simple to start…just turn on the fuel and push a button.
6) Incredibly fast. We pitted two teams against each other: one with the two Jet Boils and one with the two MSRs. The Jet Boils team was happily enjoying their meal a few minutes before the MSR team.

The only thing I dislike about the whole setup is the amount of trash generated. I love my alcohol stoves because there is no canister to dispose of at the end of a trip. My conscience also gnaws at me for generating at least 50 quart size freezer bags of trash, especially given that they take about 1,000 years to decompose. For this reason alone I am still on the fence about just using five bowls for our trip and "swishing" them out at the end of a meal.

[Jim Colten]

We did have a pot of water fall over during a practice event. … be more careful. If you aren't cooking, stay away…

That cannot be emphasized enough!

I can tell you from personal experience that 2 qts of boiling water dumped on a foot wearing socks and "camp shoes" results in a world of hurt followed by 4 weeks with the foot elevated most of the time.

On the plus side … I can now bandage a foot to hospital standards with my eyes closed;-)

[Jim Colten]

My conscience also gnaws at me for generating at least 50 quart size freezer bags of trash, especially given that they take about 1,000 years to decompose. For this reason alone I am still on the fence about just using five bowls for our trip and "swishing" them out at the end of a meal.

Also consider the weight aspect of carrying some leftover food inside each bag because it's difficult to get them completely cleaned out.

There's a thread (circa 2009) about rehydrating PhilFood in the bags it comes in … I don't recall much of the details.

All academic for me … haven't been able to sell the FBC method to our scouts.

[John Myers]

a thread (circa 2009) about rehydrating PhilFood in the bags it comes in … I don't recall much of the details

That's what we did last trek and it worked fine. No extra bags. But watch out for the little holes that sometimes get punched in the bags from hauling them around for days. :)

[John Myers]

"I can tell you from personal experience that 2 qts of boiling water dumped on a foot wearing socks and "camp shoes" results in a world of hurt followed by 4 weeks with the foot elevated most of the time.

On the plus side … I can now bandage a foot to hospital standards with my eyes closed;-)"

Ouch!
I clearly remember talking to a Ranger last trek about a scout who's cooking pot dumped over on his foot. They pulled his boot off and then pulled his sock off. All the skin on his foot came off with the sock. Needless to say, he was in extreme discomfort. The ranger called for help but the staff couldn't get there quick enough so he fireman carried the scout 4 miles to the next staffed camp for a medical evacuation.

They were lucky to have a Ranger that had served in the Gulf war and wanted to spend his summer staffing at Philmnot. I'm pretty sure our ranger couldn't have done that.

It's none of my business, but there is no way I'd take a pocket rocket for a stove to Philmont.

[John Myers]

3 – Turkey bag method –

Pro – Simple, Measure cold water (safe), Everyone eats the same meal (could also be a con), Large pot w/cozy (for rehydrating) is on ground (not on small stove), Water pot used to heat cleanup water while eating, No pot to clean

Con – Large crew needs large pot (heavy), Careful stirring required (don’t break turkey bag), 2 pots needed, Extra trash (turkey bag), Crew bowls need to be cleaned

One more con, it is really helpful to have something to hold the turkey bag open when you are dishing out the meal. It tends to collapse and gets pretty messy dishing out the food.

Next time we will take some clips to hold it open in the cozy we made.

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