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AMK Escape Bivy breathable


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  • #1282037
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I was surfing around the Adventure Medical Kits web site and came across a new emergency bivy that is reported to be breathable. Has this been covered here? List price is $50, weight is 9.9oz. Could be interesting.

    http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/product.php?product=263&catname=Shelter&prodname=Escape%20Bivvy%20-%20Shipping%20January%202012!#

    The SOL Escape Bivvy is nothing less than a revolution in backcountry shelters. The complaint with most ultralight emergency shelters is the same: condensation builds up inside as you get warm, leaving your clothes soaking wet. With the Escape Bivvy, condensation is no longer an issue, and you never again have to choose between staying dry and staying warm. The proprietary fabric lets moisture escape at the same time that it keeps rain, snow, and wind on the outside – all while reflecting your body heat back to you. Waterproof seams plus a drawstring hood closure and side zip mean you can seal out the elements entirely or use the bivvy like a traditional sleeping bag, and the high-visibility orange exterior makes it easy for rescuers to spot you even in areas with high tree cover.

    Weight: 9.9 oz
    Size: 75" x 102"

    #1802275
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    for an extra 3-4 oz and less moola you can get a blizzard bag which is rated to ~40F male confort (8 togs)

    #1802278
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Eric, who makes/sells the blizzard bags?

    #1802285
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    sold by http://ps-med.com/products/detail.php?p=14 … its usually ~$30

    made by http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product.php/100/blizzard-survival-bag

    used by …

    British Army.
    British Royal Marines.
    RAF [pilot survival kits].
    RAF Mountain Rescue.
    UK all forces Search & Rescue services.
    US Army.
    US Special Forces Medics.

    #1802416
    Diane Pinkers
    BPL Member

    @dipink

    Locale: Western Washington

    Given the general lack of true breathability in rainwear, is this feature worth the extra weight? Does it really give significant lack of condensation vs. the 3.8ounce bivy?

    I constantly oscillate between weight savings and covering all my bases with features, a reflection of my relative lack of experience. I've elected to keep carrying the 3.8 ounce emergency shelter, with the caveat of never putting myself in the position to have to actually use it. The Blizzard Bag is even heavier.

    Weight vs. function? Which is more important here?

    #1802421
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Good questions, but when comparing with rain gear, it is breathability at what activity level. The space blanket bivy is just a fancy plastic bag— it will keep the wind and rain off and has some refelctive properties, but it will have condensation problems.

    #1802423
    Michael B
    Member

    @mbenvenuto

    Locale: Vermont

    I have decided that a bothy bag is the best possible emergency shelter, at least for winter use, when it can be very cold. The bothy offers total protection and shelter, can be shared, and warms up remarkedly quickly. I would hope it could help reduce the panic of an emergency, but allowing the group to take stock of the situation, recover, and make a plan. The bothy can also be used for nonemergencies, so just pull it out for rest stops and warm ups and for a lunch break.

    I have the bothy from brooks range, which claims to be a breathable material, and it has vents. However, condensation does build up. Since it is held up by a ski pole, that isn't a big issue. But I do wonder if part of why it feels so warm is because of the rise in humidity. It will hit 85-90% humidity inside, and be 20+ degrees F warmer than outside.

    I originally got the 2 person which weighs 8 oz, but that was too small for me and one of my kids when we were both wearing ski boots; so I went with the 4 person version, which easily fits me and two kids and boots, and should be able to fit 3 adults too; 4 maybe, but boots take up a lot of room.

    #1802427
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    the blizzard bag as indicated is tested to 8 togs … its a bona fida "sleeping bag" and bivy combined … i believe it is now used by the army for initial hypothermia treatment

    in winter or alpine day trips i carry one … in the summer id just bring a 4 oz heatsheets bivy on rock climbs because functionally in the summer id likely survive with one … in the winter or even the shoulder seasons, its questionable …

    13 oz is not that much when you consider you are carrying a bivy and sleeping bag combined … and that it costs ~$30 (im sure some people will go on here about how they can get a quilt and bivy for the same weight … but not for that price!!!)

    8 togs = 0.8 m2 k/w … as you can see below 8 togs is the equivalent of a 9C COMFORT en-rating for women and 4C for men and a -11c en-extreme rating

    heres a review

    http://greenbeetlegear.me/2010/08/26/blizzard-bag-review/

    and heres a review from someone who used it across the uk

    n 2009 I made the first ever attempt to run the length of the UK off-road, I succeeded. 1,254miles across trails mountains, moorland and highlands. An average of 30miles a day for six weeks, the run took 45 days and 17 hours, including 3 rest days.

    Two weeks before the start of the event, plans for a support crew fell through, I had to run solo and unsupported. I almost dropped out of the challenge, two weeks before the off, I was already having butterflies and losing sleep over the enormity of the route, which includes enough ascent to climb Everest several times over. Having no support crew, would be tough psychologically, but the glaring problem it created was weight – I had to carry all my kit, running 'mountain-marathon' style. I didn't know if it cold be done, I hadn't trained to take the extra strain of a pack for that length of time. i'd already made a commitment to go through with the run, so I only had one choice – slash weight as much as possible, 'trimming the fat' of any piece of kit and the kit list it self.

    One of the biggest weight savings I made was in my sleeping system. In adventure races you carry either a very light tent or if crazy just a sleeping bag and a waterproof cover 'bivi bag' I had both options available to me – but looking at the numbers both options were too heavy. I'd already gone to extremes- cutting the handle of my toothbrush (yes a few grams saved here and there really does add up especially when your running over two million steps!)

    To have confidence in finishing the run i knew I had to go as light as possible – while remaining safe. I began looking at ways to ditch the sleeping bag, perhaps using foil blankets inside a bivi bag would be enough to keep me alive at night yet light enough to carry through the day.

    i knew I was being desperate now – there was no way that system would work, as soon as I moved the foil sheets would move away from the body losing all insulation properties instantly.

    I spoke to a mountain leader friend of mine who always carried a vacuum packed 'blizzard bag' made of foil – asking if they were just glorified foil blankets- aparantly not, he informed me they were actual sleeping bags made out of several layers of foil-and importantly they were designed to be re-usable, i.e. they didn't tear after one use.

    Looking through the blizzard survival website and after phoning the info line i decided to go with just a foil bag – one piece of kit instead of two that did the job of both 'bivi' bag – it's fully waterproof, and sleeping bag – it's insulated – having three layers of foil I could see how it would work like a down jacket – trapping pockets of air.

    I figured the bag would last one week maybe two at most – planning to ask family or friends to post replacements ahead of me along the route. I was happy – with half a sleeping mat and a tarpaulin to cover my head, I knew I had the lightest practical sleeping system to tackle a mountain marathon challenge. The whole system came in at under 700g.

    It might seem excessive to just save 300g but the run was approx 2.4million steps, that 300g had to be lifted on every step 2.4Million x 0.3kg = 720,000kg's! 720 tonnes of extra lifting! It's that extra strain that could see an athlete fail short of the mark. It cold well have been the difference between sore feet and stress fractures. Imagine running a marathon Everyday over mountainous terrain – then at the end of each week having to lift over a hundred cars before repeating the same the following week, over these distances saving weight – whilst keeping equipment sable and safe is paramount.

    To my surprise the bag lasted over a thousand miles before it started to show signs of abuse, the bag is designed to be used in emergencies – and be reusable for the next emergency you encounter. used nearly every night for 6 weeks – packed a way wet, sat on like a cushion during food stops, this thing was abused – and it lasted.

    In my opinion, any athlete looking for the lightest possible sleeping system on the market today, that is actually still practical to use should look no further than a Blizzard Survival bag. I won't lie, its far from comfortable, it doesn't breathe well (but in my opinion no gore tex bivi can deal with the amount of sweat coming of an athletes body after running a marathon over mountains) you will get wet with condensation – but you will be warm no mater the weather outside. The weight saving is too much of an advantage for any athlete to look-over, when wanting to travel fast and light nothing compares.

    Kevin Carr.

    

    #1802712
    Tom Lyons
    Member

    @towaly

    Locale: Smoky Mtns.

    Use a VBL sac or VBL clothing inside the bag, and you don't need to worry about whether it is breathable.

    #1802734
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    The whole point to the AMK bivy is to have an inexpensive breathable bivy. The AMK Emergency Bivy would make a perfectly good VBL– it is just a metalized poly bag.

    #1802756
    Hamish McHamish
    BPL Member

    @el_canyon

    Locale: USA

    The Blizzard is very interesting but it is in no way breathable. It weighs 13.5 ounces, so it's not exactly UL. The MLD Spirit quilt, size regular, is 12 ounces in the 48 deg version and 17 ounces in the 38 degree version. What the Blizzard brings to the party is high compressibility… until you open it from the vacuum packaging. After that you can't get it as small.

    At some point you may have to actually plan on condensation as a given. IIRC the sage advice from John Dill of YOSAR is to plan on being wet on the inside from your own condensation, but insulated enough to remain warm. Another mark against down insulation.

    Back to the AMK Escape bivy, I'm not super impressed. It weighs 10 ounces and has no insulation, all for $50. I'd be more interested if it was half that weight. But, I am glad to see attention paid to that product group.

    #1802816
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    actually what the blizzard brings to the party is a weight of ~13oz for BOTH a bivy and a sleeping bag … its designed for circumstances when you may not be able to set up a "proper" shelter … most quilts/bags generally arent waterproof by themselves

    and a price of ~30$ …. how much does a bivy and quilt cost?

    and the fact its independently tested to 8 togs, ie a COMFORT rating of ~50F for women and ~40F for men …. most quilts generally arent tested …

    #1802877
    Hamish McHamish
    BPL Member

    @el_canyon

    Locale: USA

    "its designed for circumstances when you may not be able to set up a "proper" shelter"

    That's a good point.

    I suppose a certain amount of the Blizzard's warmth rating is the VBL factor.

    #1811057
    Andy F
    Spectator

    @andyf

    Locale: Midwest/Midatlantic

    I wonder just how breathable this bivy is. Maybe it is a durable polypore (DriDucks)-like material? I suspect it might be the same fabric used by Miles Gear:

    http://www.milesgear.com/EBivy.html

    #1847875
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    Has anyone tried this out yet?

    #1847966
    Dan Johnson
    Member

    @seattle

    Locale: PNW

    Yeah, I'm curious too…

    #1855664
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    I think I am just going to have to get one and try it out as no one has yet.

    #1855682
    Eric Botshon
    BPL Member

    @ebotshon

    Its featured twice in this months backpacker magazine.

    One is an ad that states "replace your sleeping bag with this bivy……for the most fully featured backcountry sleep system"

    The other is a review that says "our tester used it on a 43 degree night without a bag or pad and felt instant heat". It doesn't mention what he was wearing and if he used this product simply to warm up or for the full night.

    I contacted AMK about the products durability and warmth and was told "can be used for a few dozen nights no problem". Nothing was stated about warmth.

    #1860642
    Ross Mallick
    Member

    @rossmallick

    Got to try out the new "breathable" SOL escape bivy, when there was not enough room in our Junior Forest Wardens stove heated wall tent for everyone. The temperature outside started the evening at -10 C and went down to -15C. As my down mummy sleeping bag got colder and damper I went from fully indoor dressed with sweater, to adding a down puffy. Nothing could save me, and at 3.30 in the morning I had to escape from the Escape bivy having had no sleep whatsoever. The bag was wet with condensation as was the inside of the bivy. To remain in the bag would have been uncomfortable, wet, and impossible to sleep in safely. The drawstring had come out from its attachment in the bag suggesting a factory flaw, that prevented a closure of the opening.

    This raises serious issues about manufacturer responsiblity for products and how they are advertised to a usually uninformed and inexperienced public with little winter wilderness experience. As a baby I was made to watch colour movies of my father sawing off the frostbiten fingers of Indians. These were people with lifelong winter wilderness experience but it didn't save them when they ran into difficulty. My father thought it would motivate me to get into his line of work (it didn't work). You will never see anything like this on TV or at the movies, but it is the reality of failure in the winter wonderland.

    Unlike other products which may be harmless, the escape bivy is promoted as a "Adventure Medical Kit" with breathable in the largest letters, backed up by video and reviews proclaiming this innovation for which it has won an award. As a survival product it is designed for survival in adverse (meaning presumably winter)conditions. Yet I found it dangerous after less than a night's sleep (or non-sleep in this case)at the relatively mild winter temperature of -15C. Where I live winters have days of -40F/C without the wind chill factor which can make it much worse.In the likely event that the bag and bivy cannot be dried out every day, the bivy will become a death trap. In these temperatures you can only survive with a warm bag or warm shelter of some kind. Once your bag and bivy turn to ice from the condensation that freezes once you leave it (as happened to mine), you have no choice but to walk out or to get rescued in time. In my country don't count on search and rescue to do it. The Defence Minister was able to get them to give him a free trip out of his fishing camp though he wasn't needing rescue but they refused on various excuses to rescue a 14 year old Inuit despite repeated requests, and who was later found frozen to death.

    I notice there is no breathability rating given to the bivy despite a number of clothing manufacturers publishing ratings for their outerwear. I suspect this is because it has no practical breathablity to the product. If there is a consumer protection agency then they should be looking into this product.

    #1860674
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    None of these products i believe are really breathable

    Thats said the blizzard bag is tested independantly to 8 togs … And is used by the us, brit and other militaries

    For survival, you want something the people who actually use those things use … Not some what some marketing scChmuck claims

    #1860678
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    Space blankets have a mylar coating which reflects heat. Wouldn't making it breathable make it less warm? It would seem like the heat would just escape instead of being refleced and trapped in by the mylar. But I honestly don't know a lot about this subject.

    I don't know how well mylar really keeps you warm as a blanket, but if you have ever put a space blanket on the opposite side of a fire with a tarp shelter to your back then you will know…. it's like being in an oven.

    #1860857
    Brett Peugh
    BPL Member

    @bpeugh

    Locale: Midwest

    I think this is more for usage in the 40-60F category.

    #1860884
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Space blankets block wind and rain and reflect some body heat, but they are intended to be a compact lightweight better-than-nothing-cya item— they have no more loft than a windshirt. The idea that any thin shell can replace a lofted sleeping bag at 43F is ludicrous and a suspension of the laws of physics.

    #1962005
    David Miles
    Spectator

    @davidmiles

    Locale: Eastern Sierra

    I bought an Escape to compare to my bivy for breathability. It was extremely tight fit with just a pair of shorts on. I'm 6'2" and it was not long enough to draw the hood closed. It did feel breathable for the 20 minutes that I sat on the floor. However any benefit of a reflective coating was completely lost due to my body being pressed against the fabric. My 80 lb daughter liked it. If you are over 5'9" and 160 lbs you might have issues with it. Much tighter fit that the AMK Thermolite bivy.

    #2009042
    SPIRIDON Papapetroy
    BPL Member

    @spotlight

    2 questions:
    Is it as noisy as the Tyvek Homewrap?
    I have read that it is difficult to pack it one unpacked, is it true?

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