Ultralight in the Icebox

[Benjamin Smith]

Companion forum thread to:

Ultralight in the Icebox

[Joshua Mitchell]

Bill: "Andy has a Vapor Barrier shirt made by RBH Designs called the VaprThrm NTS Shirt. He talks about it under "Clothing"."

Yeah, I noticed that he was carrying one. However, Andy also mentions that the VaprThrm shirt is only going to be used "If it gets really cold,". That's why I made the comment about his "base clothing" not including the shirt. By my reading, he expects to layer two Go-Lite C-Thru LW shirts under most conditions (with a Wisp to block the wind as needed), only one when it gets warmer, and if it gets REALLY cold and he's not moving enough to keep his warmth up he'll use a single Go-Lite + the VaprThrm (presumably with the Wisp over the top to further protect against convective heat transfer).

IMO, that's a pretty well-thought out strategy considering Andy's never actually pushed himself this hard before.

[Bill Fornshell]

Joshua,

Andy is hiking as a business and GoLite is his big sponsor so I would not look for a lot being said for other companies gear that he has along. If he can "make-do" with a GoLite product I would expect him to stay with them. I do hope he tries the RBH NTS Shirt so we can find out what he thinks about it. I believe RBH does not sponsor with free products things like Andy is doing. I expect he bought the NTS Shirt so it will be interesting to see what comments he has if any about it.

I will be wearing an RBH Vapr Thrm NTS Shirt and the NTS Pants (I bought my shirt and pants) on my hike this month if I can ever get out of Texas. I will start each day with the Shirt and Pants on – cold or warm – and wear them as long as I can each day. I will be recording the temperature every 2 hours and will recored how the RBH items are working. If I get to hot, I will note that, and if I can't vent enough to cool of I will remove them. I will wear them next to my skin and as my only garments as long as I can. I will also wear them to sleep each night or at least to start each night. I will live in them 24 hours a day if possible. I want to really see what temperature range I can make them work for me.

My NTS Shirt can vent through zip'ed mesh pockets and I am getting the optional "Forearm Zipper Vents". The NTS Pants come with 16" outside leg zippers to vent my legs if / when necessary. I have used VB's in my Down sleeping bags and on my feet for over 15 years so the trick will be to see how I do with the RBH Shirt and Pants over a broad temperature range.

[Sam Haraldson]

Andy may be a sponsored athlete, but he's sponsored by a backpacking company so he still has to be thrifty and can't afford every new piece of gear that comes out. I had a chance to look over his gear as he was packing up to hit the trail last week and he has a balance of stuff he's testing for GoLite as well as other items he's procured on his own.

The temperatures really started to go down last night and it's been around 10 deg. F overnight. I talked to him on the phone last night as thus far he's been making around twenty miles per day (ankle pain from not being used to wearing boots is apparently slowing him down slightly). He'll be upping that to twenty five through the weekend in order to time proper arrival of his next food drop.

[Bill Fornshell]

Gear Companies being used by Andy and the number of products by company or Store (BPL.Com) from each:

GoLite 17
BPL.com Store (?) 7 (+/-)
MSR 4
DeFeet 3
RBH Designs 3
MYOG 3
Timberland 1
Forty Below 1
High Gear 1
Leki 1
Northern Lites 1
Marmot 1
MontBell 1
Headsweats 1
PossumDown 1
Oakley 1
Jacks R Better 1
Gossamer Gear 1
Therm-a-Rest 1
SMC 1
Nalgene 1
Snowpeak 1
Mini-Bic 1
Brunton 1
LG cell phone 1
Canon 1
Olympus 1
Photon 1
Petzl 1
Victorinox Classic 1

[Linda Voll]

Andrew will be able to test his gear…we've got a cold front coming in…one of our Artic blasts…single digits highs, below zero lows and wind…I'll be winter camping in Pictured Rocks (U.P. Michigan) this week'end…wearing my nose cozy!

[Jim Colten]

Andrew should be in the Grand Marais area. Their airport is back away from the lake much like the trail is and at 11:30am they're reporting -8F with a 10mph north wind … windchill in the -20's. Fortunately, the forecast is for a slight warmup Sat-Sun b4 the next cold snap next week.

An indication of the strength of the lake effect is that the harbor is reporting +1F

[Carol Crooker]

I talked to Andy yesterday from Grand Marais. He said it had been colder finally. He said when it was only 5 degrees at 11 am he needed to "embrace" the cold!

[Jim Colten]

Folks interested in tracking his weather might find these links useful:
Silver Bay
Grand Marais
Ely
I like the graphs … -16F in Grand Marais yesterday!

[Sam Haraldson]

Anyone that has talked any trash about Andy Skurka will have to simply hold their peace for the time being because that boy is hardcore!

I hiked in on Friday night and met him for an evening of bivying in -12 deg F tempratures! We went to sleep with -4 deg F reading on the thermometer, -12 deg F at midnight and -5 deg F the next morning.

He's been steadily doing 25 mile days hiking from sunrise until roughly two hours after dark. He's far enough north where he now is carrying snow shoes but crampons have been his weapon of choice thus far.

I had a chance to inspect his vapor barrier system closely as well. He seemed very comfortable with the system and hasn't been having insulation-wetting perspiration issues as he's thermo-regulating with extreme caution. He typically walks 15 or 20 minutes, adjusts his clothing and then repeats. He's wearing suprisingly little clothing while walking and then layers on the insulation upon arriving at camp.

But alas, I won't put words into his mouth and will save the details for him to share when he's done in a week or so. I'm sure we can expect a full report. 400 miles in what is shaping up to be 16 winter days – not bad, Andy. Not bad at all.

[cushing hamlen]

I have not visited the BPL website for a while…and so just came across this thread. First of all….good luck to Andy….gutsy effort…and I am looking forward to hearing more on how his gear performs. Second…I am in Minneapolis, and the temps are definitely taking a dive these days…should be something like -10 to -15 for him tonight. I will be wondering if he will be able to keep up anything like the pace he is keeping on the superior hiking trail once he turns west onto the Border Trail and then the Kek. The Superior trail is a well maintained clearly marked trail, with ready access, so it is heavily hiked. The Boarder Trail and the Kek are different in two ways: access is far more difficult (I think this is some of the most remote area in the upper 48), and being in a national wilderness area, anything man-made, including signs or blazes, are forbidden. thus the trail is not actually marked at all, and because foot trafic is so low, it is sometimes nothing more than a game-trail (i.e. barely visible)…and that is with no snow on the ground. Also, with all the iron ore in the ground, compasses literally can turn circles as you move from one place to the next. It can also be very, very rutty with exposed roots and rocks. This is absolutely drop-dead beautiful wilderness…I was up there in early October for a solo getaway…and can only imagine how majestic it would be in the dead of winter. I both envy Andy the experience (pictures please!), and cringe at the challenges. Be safe Andy.

[Sam Haraldson]

Andy's pace has probably dropped some now that he has moved off the well-marked Superior Hiking Trail and onto the less obvious BRT and Kek trails. He has hiked these trails previously however (winter '04/'05) and commented that the route finding was not as difficult for him as many people claim.

[cushing hamlen]

Sam – interesting to hear he has hiked those trails before and feels he can keep up that kind of pace. From what I hear, the biggest issue in the most remote portions of the trails is tree-falls, as routine maintenance is not….well…routine. Certainly on the north end of the Powwow trail, which is not even as remote as the Kek, falls really slow you down. Oh how for maintenance like that which is possible on the AT…where you can really pretty much fly. But then again, on the Kek you get nearly daily doses of the northern lights! At least the temps have been pretty moderate this last week for him.

[Carol Crooker]

Andy reached Ely with only a little damage late Friday. I talked to him last night. He mentioned that the blowdowns were really bad. We'll publish a podcast of our first interview Wednesday. In the meantime Andy is off to meet some other obligations – that guy is BUSY!

[Sam Haraldson]

His first time through the boundary waters he often chose to walk chains of lakes as the going is utterly easy compared to the mess of blowdowns from 1999. When I was with him in Grand Marais he told me he was going to stay strickly to a land route this time around and that he expected to be done on Thursday. As you can see from Carol's last post that he didn't arrive until Friday and that he obviously had some trouble with either route finding or (more likely) slow conditions.

The BRT and Kek are trails synonymous with slow travel as their maintenance organizations are small (albeit dedicated) crews of people who can only get out a handful of times per year. Winter conditions probably heighten the difficulty for game trails are more obvious taking you off track, having to contend with walking over and through the literal bomb holes that moose put in the ground as well as the added weight of snowshoes on the feet.

My congratulations go out to Andy on a difficult hike that was from what I can tell well-executed. I look forward to hearing his perspective.

[Brian James]

Does anyone have any insight into why Andrew wouldn't be using a Canister stove?

He mentioned not wanting to "modify a canister stove for winter operation," but the only "modification" required would be turning the canister upside down, no?

Canister stoves in practical application use 1/2 to 2/3 the fuel by weight, according to Dr. Caffin and others. Why the white gas?

Further, all those finicky little parts on a white gas stove's pump assembly really increase the chance of a catastrophic failure, (not decrease it,) right? I'd love to hear anyone's insight.

Thanks!

Brian

[Thomas Knighton]

Not all canister stoves can have the canister turned upside down, only remote canister stoves. As for why he opted for white gas over a remote canister stove though, who knows. Still, he survived so it must have worked out ok for him :D

Tom

[Brian James]

Yes if you turn the canister upside down on a non-remote canister stove you have big trouble. Your dinner is on the ground! ;)

Just kidding I know what you meant. The Optimus Stella, for instance, is a remote canister stove that has to have the canister right-side-up.

What I was wondering is whether the performance of the canister starts to peter out as you get closer to -20, -30, and then ultimately -40 when your propane won't boil.

For instance, if it's -20 and I start a canister stove, will the evaporative cooling quickly take my propane to -40 and render my stove ineffective?

[Thomas Knighton]

>Yes if you turn the canister upside down on a non-remote canister stove you have big trouble. Your dinner is on the ground! ;)

Nah, you gotta light it before putting your food on it, so all you end up with is a really cool paperweight :D

Tom

[Stuart Burke]

If Andrew was looking to experience the extremes of a Minnesota winter it is too bad he is not here now. The forcasted high for Ely this saturday is -5F and the low is -22F.

[Jim Colten]

Yes indeed, the icebox is trying to live up to it's name. International Falls, which worked long and hard to trademark the term "Nations Icebox" is reporting -26F. For Ely it was +1F yesterday afternoon and the forecast for the region holds no hope of warming up to 0F until Tuesday … that'd be 96 hours below zero.

Could be colder though, yesterday (Ground Hog's Day) was the 11th anniversary of the coldest temp ever recorded in MN …. -60F in Tower, a days walk west of Ely (for Andy). It may have been even colder that morning in nearby Embarrass, MN but the lights from the TV crews messed up the measurement.

Down here in tropical St. Paul the reliable thermometer nearest me is reporting -16F and I'm logging off to test some clothing combos on an all morning day hike.

[Sam Haraldson]

It's 25 Below zero farenheit here in Duluth right now. I'm not much of a believer in "windchills" but the radio keeps saying that windchills are at -45 F.

[John Baird]

Andrew
I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed reading your article. Inspiring to say the least.

[Author]

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