Multiple Use Sleeping Bags

[john Tier]

Nice multi use quilt…No Sniveller…800pf down…2+ inches thich…wearaable as a serape…check gear section here or http://www.jacksrbetter.com… Test results due this winter by BPL…also there is a spotlite.

You might want to consider the use of Omni Tape in liew of zippers as you consider design options.

As designer owner I’m biased.

[Vick Hines]

Thanks, Jack
Err…what’s Omni Tape?
The serape idea sounds swell, and a lot less fiddling than the vest conversion I’ve been using.

[john Tier]

Vick,

Omni Tape is No Snag Velcro….it is available in sewing store in 3/4 inch width ONLY in 3 ft lengths….Omni Tape is available in 1 inch width but can be purchased in 25 meter rolls from distributors such as US Fastener…. It is really nice stuff…does not have the abrasive hook side, thus is easier on skin and super light nylons and silks… does not tend to load up with thread/strings, dust , dirt etc on the hooks like regular velcro…

Essentially it is rows of hooks with slightly taller fuzzy…works good.

Pan

[Vick Hines]

Jack,
Yeah, that’s what I thought. I tried it, but found it didn’t hold very well. Perhaps I got the Beta version; it was a year or two ago. Since you seem to be having good luck with it, I guess I need to get some more and see if the new produciton works better.

[john Tier]

Vick,

Works fine for us and a lot of satisfied customers…but then these are pretty low stress uses.

[Mike Ivanchikov]

Ross, you may also want to check out two more half bags – Bask Aconcagua and Bask Yeti.

[Vick Hines]

Jack;
Got it! As you said, the no-stick Velcro is for low stress uses, but the new production is *lots* better than the first I got. Now, do I want to turn my latest robe into a serape. Easily done and we’re close enough to Mexico.

[Vick Hines]

Peter Pan;
Done and done – the poncho-serape. Now, if it will just get cold enough to test it.

Thanks for the tips. The no-snag Velcro is perfect for this rig. And it saves several ounces.

[Vick Hines]

Jack Tier gave me a good idea: turn a top quilt into a serape. It isn’t hard of you follow his advice (as I did) and use omni tape – a Velcro product that sticks to itself and doesn’t tangle with everything else. I pulled the down out of the centermost chamber, cut a simple slit in the top and bottom shells, sewed in a wall as deep as the baffels with one strip of omni tape ( two would have been better for my 2+” baffels). I backed mine with a draft tube on a 20 degree top quilt. The elastic ties that go under the pad work as belts to keep the serape from flapping around. I’ve used it so far to freezing. It seems more than adequate. So I don’t have to carry an insulated top garment for camp. Kula! Kulai! Thanks, Jack.

[Coin Page]

I carry just my down hood (unsnapped from its parka) Gives me toasty goose down security and warmth inside an ultralight bag for very little weight.

[Michael Wands]

I stopped carrying a sleeping bag right after I stopped carrying a tent. My dayhiking gear included a fleece beanie & WM Flight Jacket (toasty). By adding a pair of Down Pants (mont-bell) and some down sleep socks (sierra designs), I can sleep in total comfort. I can also get up in the middle of the night without unzipping and can sleep in any position without resistance when rolling over. If things get a little moist (splash under tarp), I just put on my Dragonfly pullover and my wind pants.

[John Carter]

If you click on the info for the Cocoon Pants, Ryan Jordan claims that these pants, the Cocoon Pullover, and a Nunatak Arc Alpinist gets him down to the teens easily. I’ve been thinking about this apporach for the Pacific Northwest. A single body bag (like the Nunatak Raku) isn’t versatile enough for rainy rest stops, and at 35oz isn’t worth the weight vs/ function. The combo that Ryan suggests keeps you warm at rest stops (the pullover), warm at dinner (add the pants), and warm at night (add the bag). The synthetic component to the clothing adds a safety margin, while the down in the bag saves weight from an all-synthetic setup. If the Cocoon pants replace my smartwool leggings, it’s an equal-ounce trade off. Anyone else try this setup?

[kevin davidson]

Michael, it would be a more useful post if you added context.
What temperatures have you brought your bagless combo down to? Where and what general conditions?

John, using a synthetic insulated jacket and pants combo with a relatively light down sleeping bag in the shoulder seasons and Winter has been a tried and true system for me in the Pacific Northwest for several years. Served me well for alpinism in the Cascades. This heavier system has taken me to subzero temperatures( w/ a VBL).
Recently, I’ve been putting together a lighter system that I expect will take me down to the teens, as per Ryan. My new system–
Cutom Nunatak Arc( a lighter version of the Alpinist) + Micropuff/Cocoon Pullover +
(currently) ancient NF ski pants/Capilene leggings–eventually to be replaced by either the Cocoon or Micropuff pants).

[Michael Wands]

My reasons for going bagless were simple:
1. I am a solo hiker. At night being zipped into a sleeping bag made me feel like a bear sandwich!
2. I like to keep my conversion weight to a minimum. This is the additional weight it takes from doing a day hike to laying over for the night.

I hike in Texas, Arkansas & New Mexico. I have only been really comfortable down into the mid 30’s using the down clothing.

Once it hits 50-55, I lose the down pants & booties and go for silk bottoms and sleep socks with the down jacket pulled over my torso like a blanket.

In Texas it can be in the 90’s when you go to bed. During these times I use a modified cotton mummy liner (bottom cut away with foot pocket) and spritz it with water for evaporative cooling.

[John Garberson]

I started hammock hangin’ a couple years ago and only once used a bag or cover. I wore long underware, balaclava, fleece gloves, wool socks and booties. My outer wear was an Integral Designs Dolimitti jacket w/hood and Denali pants. With a 1/4″ pad, that system kept me comfortable to the high 20s. I just dropped out the Denali pants and added an Arc Alpinist and Cocoon pants for an additional 7oz net. Although I haven’t tested that combination, I expect the temp range of this system to go lower although I may be limited by the pad. On the ground, the temp range shoud be much lower.

I agree with the above…one of the unanticipated benefits of sleeping in cold weather clothing was the ease/comfort of getting up in the middle of the night and the comfort when facing the early morning cold.

[Steve Smith]

I can see the appeal of a layering system, where you sleep in what you hike in, plus a few extra things. But how do deal with the hygiene issues?

[Steve Smith]

Vick – some ideas on the design for vest + footbag – I’m interested to see what you come up with.

Ideal top half shape, for the insulation-to-weight ratio, is a vest with armholes, as per your design. But at night you need extra space to get your arms in, so you may end up with either a very tight bag or a very loose jacket. A solution may be to cinch it or fold it, to make it snugger by day. It could be left un-cinched when hiking in cool (but not cold) weather.

It could also include an insulated hood with a drawcord – then you don’t need a separate warm hat.

You could make the jacket part over-long, so the hem rolls up inside and acts as a draught tube. The hood could roll up to convert to a neck baffle rather than adding it separately.

I wonder if the footbag could be reusable, as well as the jacket – but I can’t imagine how.

[Joshua Mitchell]

Or make sleeves similar what jacksrbetter is making.

alternatively, if you want to make sure of no ‘gaps’ for air to get in. you could make a ‘jacket / shirt’ similar to what is in fashion for women to wear over a t-shirt. it’s bascially sleeves that are connected across just the shoulder blades and cover the parts of the chest that need to be covered and tie in the front… this could easily be desined to offer insulation to the arms and fit over the vest turnig the vest into a convetible parka / jacket / vest if done correctly without a significant weight penalty

[Vick Hines]

Steve1,
I’ve retired the vest/quilt design as too fussy. I’ve gone over to making serapes similar to the JacksRBetter design — for the very reasons you point out. If it has enough room for arms, it is too loose as a vest. Besides there is the issue of the extra quilt hanging down. The serape works much better.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Vick, I read your post about making a serape/ quilt for use under a hammock quite some time ago and have been wanting to make one ever since. Did you make the quilt yourself, or buy one? May I ask if it is the regular rectangular shape, or a tapered design? If you bought it, which company’s design did you buy?

Where did you buy the Omni Tape? I have no idea where to find it here in Japan (I’ve looked), so would probably have to buy it online.

Do you carry an extra top layer for use in your hammock when using the serape/quilt as an underquilt? May I ask what you use for that?

[Vick Hines]

Miguel,
Serape/quilt: Made it (them) myself using my own ideosyncratic design, rounded a little at the shoulders with a drawstring top and snap or button (I have come to like buttons)to hold it around my neck, and tapered from just above the knees down to a squarish bottom wide enough to have foot room. Without a foot box it folds out flat. Velcro on the outside of the foot and bottom 18 inches or so and inset 3 inches from the hem keeps the foot section closed and forms draft tubes. The Velcro is not sewn through to the inside layer, but is stitched to the outer layer only. That works just fine. (I’ve used a zipper here, but no more.) I make my cold weather quilts 58 inches wide and my warmer weather quilts 50 to 52. The length is my height plus 4 inches or so. This makes it sound as if I make a lot of quilts. I’ve made only 7 or 8.

Why buy anyone’s design? Quilts are straightforward projects. Two shells and some baffles. It’s more fun for me to play with ideas and cannibalize my mistakes.

I get Omni Tape from JoAnne’s Fabrics, a US national retailer. It is a Velcro product found on the Velcro rack. But they don’t call it Omni Tape. I don’t know where else to get it. Haven’t looked.

Hammock use: Yes, I carry two quilts when using one as the bottom quilt. At 20 to 27 ounces each (depending on loft), two quilts are within the weight range of most single mummy bags of the same loft. I have one quilt outfitted as a bottom quilt. It also works as a top quilt, but the extra drawstring casings and elastic add two or three ounces, so I don’t do that to any more quilts than I need to.

Inevitable question: How do I make the neck hole? I start by stitching baffles to one of the shells – the outside seems like the best one to start with. When I get to the center baffle position, I cut the shell all the way across at the baffle line and stitch a baffle made of shell fabric to one side, finishing the seam. Then I stitch a baffel-depth strip of shell fabric to the center of other side of the shell, a little wider than the neck opening – 18 inches – leaving 1/2 inch of seam allowance free on the ends and finish that seam. I stitch Omni Tape to match on each baffle piece. Then I stitch the shell back together and finish that seam, but leave the neck opening open, of course. After adding the rest of the baffles to the outer shell, it’s time to put the inner shell on. I start at the center baffle, cut the inner shell in two along the baffle line and repeat the process used on the outer layer, stitching the full baffle to one side of the inner shell then stitching the 19 inch neck piece to the center of the other half of the inner shell, leaving the seam allowance free on the ends. Then I stitch the two halves of the shell together, finishing the seams and leaving a neck opening as deep as the baffle depth in the middle of the shells. Therefore, now the two shells are joined at the center by a single full baffle and a short baffle right next to it on the same seam. But the ends of the short baffle are open, and must be stitched closed now. That completes the process of installing the neck opening. To complete the quilt, I stitch the remaining baffles to the inner shell, stitch velcro to the outside around the foot (avoiding stitching the baffles down where the Velcro crosses them), and hem one side of the quilt and the ends, ready for stuffing.

[Miguel Arboleda]

Thanks, Vick, for the detailed reply. It’s a little hard to follow without pictures, but I printed out the instructions so that I can go through everything step-by-step as I work through the design. I’m curious, though, do you use down or synthetic insulation? How do you go about getting the down in there? I hear it’s quite a challenge.

[Peter McDonough]

Why bother with the hole in the middle of the quilt? Just wrap it around your shoulders, and then sew on some velco to hold it in place. This works better than having a hold because the quilt encloses more of the body and there is less inefficient extra air space.

[Vick Hines]

Miguel, Peter is right. It IS easier to just wrap the quilt around. I should have mentioned that.

[Vick Hines]

Miguel,
Set up a tent in spare space, climb in with quilt shell and a bag o’ down and sewing machine and supplies. Vacuum cleaner outside with hose leading inside. Stuffing is easy. Just sloooowly grab a fistful of down and push your hand all the way to the end of a chamber. Withdraw hand, distributing down as you go in proportion that seems right. Repeat as necessary. Avoid overfilling – the common beginners mistake. After each chamber is filled, stitch closed with a basting stitch – loosen the top thread tension on the sewing machine so the thread (contrasting color is a good idea) can be easily removed. You will want to open chambers to add or remove down until it looks right. When it is satisfactory, use a regular stitch to nail the chambers closed, then hem or bind the edge.

Note Peters comment about just wrapping the quilt around you instead of making a serape. I’ve started to come around to that way of doing things since using capes for rain gear. It’s a lot easier than making the neck hole.

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