Super Hammock Newb – help!

[Joe L]

Learning to MYOG is the better path, but here is some info for others.

I haven't bought from NK Outdoors yet but their prices on suspension parts are the best I've seen. Dynaglide whoopies are $14, amsteel $12. The website is nkoutdoorgear.webs.com and shipping is just the post office's price.

At diygearsupply.com formerly known as Backwoods Daydreamer, Scott sells 1.1 nylon hammock fabric for just over $3 a running yard. For $13 plus shipping, you can buy enough 1.1 nylon for a real hammock, not just a test model.

Happy trails to you.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

I had seen the diygearsupply and my jaw dropped at the prices, so cheap! But I hadn't found NK outdoors and really was getting discouraged by the price of suspension systems, this will be a big money saver!

[Dale Wambaugh]

I just got a Warbonnet Traveler double layer 1.1. I like it :) The double layer allows you to use a pad with little fiddling, so you can do cooler summer stuff without investing in an underquilt. At $75 they are a bargain. Weight on mine is 22oz with the stuff sack 2 carabiners and a strap suspension. I use a 26" wide pad like the blue segmented ones they sell at Walmart (or Big 5 in the West).

When looking at the weights shown for the strap suspension, consider that you will be adding tree straps, so not all the weight is in excess of a whoopie sling modification. The strap system is dead simple to set up and adjust.

Papa Smurf makes a 2.8oz bug sock that is the best UL tradition and they run about $50.

Now I wanna Cuben tarp for Christmas :)

[Kattt]

+ 1 what Dale said. I also have a Traveller, but a single layer. The strap system is really great. I don't like pads because I run so cold, so I use underquilts. I highly recommend HammockGear ; their underqulits are great and they are really nice people to deal with.

[Gerry B.]

"the real savings is ditching the 4.5oz webbing for 1.5oz tree straps"
Te-wa,

After reading your posts the other evening, I swapped out the stock WB Traveller suspension with whoopie slings and converted the stock amsteel lines into tree huggers with bowlines tied on both ends. When I used a small tree where I could wrap it around a few times, it worked great. But on larger trees where I could only wrap it around once, it did not work so well. The sticks I put in between the hugger and the tree would constantly fall out if I was not in the hammock. And when I did not use sticks, lots of bark would fall off my backyard pine trees.

I agree that replacing the stock webbing hugger straps with amsteel saved me appx. 3 ounces but I am not sure that's the way I want to go yet. Do you have a trick about the sticks and how to keep them in place?

PS: For some reason the stuff sack that came with my WB Traveler is enormous. It is literally twice as long as I need it. So I am going to order a ZPack small cuben stuff sack for my hammock. The weight savings is not much but it will be neater and lighter.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

I plan on making all of my hammock gear aside from the suspension. I can save so much weight since I'm short and don't need the same size hammock that fits a 6' person. I was thinking about making a double layer 1.1 hammock for cooler/winter months and a single for warmer months and since diygearsupply has the fabric so cheap I could probably pay the same for both that I could buy one single! Same goes for the bug sock. I like the look of Hammock Gear's underquilts, but I also like Te-Wa's and Arrowhead's Flamethrower. So many choices!

[te – wa]

i have only done this method a couple times, with the weight of hammock + quilts/pad and such, added the 1/2" twigs after rig was attached. did not observe any difficulty of twigs falling out from under the amsteel. ymv'd?

like said, only a couple times. mostly, my trees are around 8-10" diameter (ponderosa) and because of these pines' sheer numbers, its easier to choose optimal hanging location.

in the sequoia forest, i'd be screwed!

[J-L]

I also use amsteel for my tree straps and have not had this problem yet. I usually use 1/4'' to 1/2'' sticks and pull the amsteel pretty tight once they're all in. One thing to try might be using Y or V shaped sticks and putting them upside down or using a stick with a short nub on the side. That would probably prevent them from falling out even when there's very little tension on the amsteel.

Also, what is the lightest fabric any of you have used to make a hammock? It seems like 1.1 oz ripstop is the standard lightest but didn't Warbonnet used to make a 1.0 oz Blackbird? Would making a single-layer hammock out of this 0.9 oz ripstop be a terrible idea? It seems like you could at least make an extremely light double-layer hammock, but my knowledge of fabrics isn't the best…

http://www.owfinc.com/Fabrics/NylonWoven/Ripstop.asp#Nylon%20Ripstop

[Dale Wambaugh]

"Also, what is the lightest fabric any of you have used to make a hammock? It seems like 1.1 oz ripstop is the standard lightest but didn't Warbonnet used to make a 1.0 oz Blackbird? Would making a single-layer hammock out of this 0.9 oz ripstop be a terrible idea? It seems like you could at least make an extremely light double-layer hammock, but my knowledge of fabrics isn't the best…"

I wouldn't push it too far, even if you are a lightweight. The fabric needs to be durable as well as strong enough to hold your weight. If you damage the fabric, you may find yourself dumped on the rocks. I had that happen last week with no injury, but great surprise.

Warbonnet gives a good breakdown at http://warbonnetoutdoors.com/hammocking101.php and I value their experience.

One of the lightest production hammocks is the Grand Trunk Nano 7 and it is spec'd with 1.7oz fabric. The weight was reduced by making it smaller. If you swap out the carabiners for Amsteel whoopies, you can get it down a bit more.

It would be interesting to have something like an uncoated Dyneema-reinforced cloth for hammocks. The fabric does need to breathe.

[Patricia Combee]

Side sleeping in a hammock is not only possible, but it is my preferred way to sleep.
Asymmetrical is not necessary; just go with a wide hammock. Most folks prefer 60 inches wide at least; mine is 64 inches. I get a very nice diagonal lie.
Back sleeping in a hammock is way more comfortable in a hammock, since your body has total support.

It can be challenging and expensive to go really light with a hammock, but a hammock set up can be lighter than most 1 person tents.
My really light set up is: Grand Trunk UL with dynaglide whoopies (11 ounces, but I think I can go lighter); Cuben fiber tarp with doors (1g ounces including tarp sleeves and all rigging, could be lighter); and a 1/2 length but net at 3/4 ounce.

This is a nice set up. I do prefer a slightly heavier set up for most trips, but it is nice to go lighter when necessary.

Check out http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCamping.html
for some DIY ideas for making hammocks and for some great info on hammocks and general camping.
Also check out Sticks Blog at http://www.sticksblog.com. He has just put up a video on making an underquilt for about $20.

Hope we have all helped you out and that you decide to leave the ground for the trees :)

[Dale Wambaugh]

It is very easy to make an insulation system if you use an undercover. I use an undercover that is also a poncho to help offset the weight.

You can use just about any kind of cloth for an undercover. It is the same concept as a windshirt– cut convection from wind and provide some dead air layers. If you use silnylon, you get a light raincoat for your hammock. The cloth needs channels in all four hems and light shock cord to support the sides and draw the ends up.

A fellow named Ted Garlington came up with the idea to take light garbage bags and use space blankets for fill, the Garlington Insulator. http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm. The insulators are placed in an undercover for support.

I took it one step further and made bags from space blankets and double stick tape. They are filled with space blankets that have been crumpled and folded inside the bag to make a multi-layer sandwich. I have also made insulators using polyester bats inside a space blanket bag. The can be stacked for more insulation or used in conjunction with a space blanket to give more coverage.

The undercover can be used with a foam pad for insulation as well. The Hennessy SuperShelter uses a silnylon undercover with a 5/8" open cell foam pad hung on shock cords from each end. Hennssey recommends adding a space blanket. Hennessy has a series of videos at http://hennessyhammock.com/media/C38/#content that show how the system works. I couldn't find the open cell foam to make a clone for use with my poncho undercover, so I just bought the pad from Hennessy and adapted my poncho with so hardware to use with my Hennessy Expedition Zip hammock. It is a light, compact and effective system.

I think this is not cold weather gear, but fine for above freezing or a little below. I think full underquilts are the way to go when you consistently get into the 20F range. I tried a synthetic partial underquilt and I wasn't impressed. I found it clumsy and difficult to use. I think the Garlington Insulators are at least as effective while being far less expensive and 1/3 the weight.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

@Patricia – I agree, side sleeping is very comfortable, now that I've tried it on a diagonal lay. Especially for me, since I like to sleep with one leg on top of a pillow normally. The hammock actually holds my leg in the same way a pillow normally would. Everyone I have talked to says the best way to get a really light Hammock setup is to go with a Cuben Fiber tarp, but not only is the cost too much but frankly they are way too noisy. But I have discovered that, after reviewing my gear lists I can afford up to a lb more in weight in my shelter and still keep 3 season under 10 lbs, so I'm still pretty happy with the weight a sil tarp can take me to. Actually it's quite funny you mention Stick since his blog was one of the first I came across when I started looking for backpacking blogs, and yes, everyone here has been such a huge help.

@Dale – I'm actually planning on getting a Packa so a poncho isn't really going to fit into my gear list, but I have heard of using an undercover and am curently playing around with the numbers and some designs for making one. The great thing for me is I'm 63 inches tall so a 3/4th lenght under quilt is actually long enough to use as a full for me! :D I think I may get/make a longer one for serious cold, maybe even a peapod that can fit a summer UQ inside it.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Hammocks work better with a larger tarp than you might use on the ground. Although there are some small and light asym/diamond tarps made, the trend is to tarps in the 10'x12' size to provide good coverage past the ends of most hammocks and wide/low side coverage for stinky weather, as well as "porch mode" arrangements using trekking poles for good views while camped.

With that sort of square footage, the weight goes up fast. Zpacks makes a nice Cuben tarp specifically for hammocks that is 8.5'x11' and all of 5oz— and a $235 tag to own one.

Warbonnet offers the Edge tarp at 10oz that has looked interesting to me.

I have a Hennessy diamond/asym silnylon tarp that is also a rain cape with a front zipper. The XL model was designed for the larger Explorer hammocks, giving better coverage for my smaller Expedition and most gathered-end hammocks at 11.8oz. It is a clever multiple use design: http://hennessyhammock.com/catalog/products/cat_cape_poncho_rainfly_xl.

I also have a Hennessy Hex tarp that gives great coverage, but is outside the UL pale at 23oz for the PU coated version. They are well made and inexpensive at $60. You can get new ones for $58 or so with shipping on eBay. The silnylon version is $130 and 18.6oz.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

I'm actually looking at making my own Sil Tarp. Probably about 10×8 (as I have mentioned I am very short and can do with smaller gear than others). It won't be as light as 5oz but I can do it much cheaper than I can buy (yay for diygearsupply!) and combined with my planned MYOG Hammock and suspension, my shelter would be 1.5 lbs. Even if I'm off some, it's still well under the 2 lbs I've decided I'm willing to "spend" on my shelter. One of the things that I was drawn to hammocks is how much cheaper I can make my own shelter.

[te – wa]

also of mention, it's easier. making a gathered end hammock, and a cat cut sil tarp is much, much easier so far as planning, design, application and production goes than say, a solo tarptent. this applies also to some of the more simple but gracious shelters, like the Mid style and many tipi's we see in today's market.

I'll also add that you may consider 2 tarps. summer may not require a 10×12 and you can shave ounces from your tarp while adding it to your hammock (bugs, summer) but w/ a cuben tarp you pretty much negate this need, at a cost. so… how much would you value a summer sil tarp, and a winter sil tarp combined? are they near the cost of just one cuben tarp? if so, start saving. in the long run, a cuben tarp valued for such light weight may not "do it all" but its pretty darn close.

I own 4 tarps. a standard sil by MacCat, 2 of my own in sil, and a zpacks cuben. I have found over the last year, in all conditions, the cuben wins hands down. the ONLY drawback is that I have a sensitivity at times to a full moon's output. that's when pulling my BR beanie over the eyes takes care of the problem.
mike

[Chris Peichel]

You may also want to consider making an asym tarp as well for the trips you expect nice weather. If you are making it yourself it will just be 4 yards of silnylon. You can get the dimensions for the asym tarp off henessey hammocks website or diygearsupply/backwoods daydreamer used to have the dimensions as well.

It is nice to have tarp options to help cut some weight on the trips where fair weather is forecasted.

Good luck, and have fun. I was first turned on to hammocks by Ken Thompson (BPL member who lives near me). I have since converted two backpacking buddies. It is hard to think about sleeping on the ground after sleeping so well and comfortably in a hammock and only adding a small amount of weight over a tarp and bivy.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Hammocks are an excellent DIY project, with simple hems and channels. I can see getting a tarp, hammock and suspension under 1.5 pounds.

Don't forget insect protection; you can build a Papa Smurf tulle bug sock that will weigh 2-3oz. See http://www.mydiygear.com/pages/projects/bug-protection/bugsock.php for details.

What do you plan to use for bottom insulation? That can add a lot of weight.

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

@Te-Wa – I'm going to start out with making something for 3 season just to have something that works so I can get some hanging under my belt, but then I plan on playing with adding "doors" for winter use that are removable (still thinking how I want to do that) and then I was going to play around with making some smaller tarps for good weather.

@Dale – Here in the SE I think forgetting my bug sock would be a very horrid mistake! As for insulation it depends on the season but a combination of CCF pads and quilts. The good news is at my height I can use a 3/4 quilt as a full length quilt and probably either make or have made for me an even smaller quilt for a true 3/4 UQ for me. For most 3/4 UQ I can get a 20 deg for 14oz which is the same as a NeoAir! I can also add a few degrees with a weather protecting outer shell and a GG thinlight pad. The GG pad is something I'd always carry for backpack support and a weather shell is, as far as I can tell worth the extra weight for the benefits.

[te – wa]

Joslyn: I agree, a 3/4 quilt, or just slightly longer, may be full length on you. My standard size is 52" (about 50" usable length) and I made one for my wife that is 60" even. It nearly fits her head to toe, as she 62" tall it wont completely cover the extremities, so she gets by with Flamethrower goose down booties, and a BlackRock hat. (no leg pad)
This method has worked for her to 26 degrees, no issues. She has hanged about 5 times now.
When and if your UQ is not long enough, since mine and many others are around 46-55" long, just use that pad at the feet.

I do have a good way of blowing other people's money, so dont even bother going to
http://arrowheadequipment.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2059266
or
http://www.blackrockgear.com/buy.html
and please, please stay away from
tewaunderquilts.webs.com

:)
:)
:)

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

Yeah your UQ are just a foot short of full length for me and since I always wear a hat and a pillow and I plan on down booties since I love warm feet in camp, it's a win win for me! I was thinking the other day and it occured to me to ask, does hanging affect the temperature rating of your top quilt?

[te – wa]

well, the consensus seems to be that you need a solid rated UQ. A top quilt can be rated higher than the actual temps you can push it to based on many factors.. but a hammock tends to trap body heat inside the mesh. I know this from experience, mesh blocks some wind and captures radiated heat. also, the UQ can wrap up around you (obviously, at 40" wide unless your shoulders are wider than that, think Andre the Giant)
I have consistantly pushed my 35 degree TQ down to 20 degrees.. using a protective tarp, a netted hammock, and some base layers. I took it to 14.6 once, wearing Montbell down inner jacket and pants w/ a Katabatic gear Balaclava.

I would say, get a Freeze w/ 1 oz overfill (15oz total) and a 30 degree TQ. Or, see my tutorial at Hammockforums to make your own TQ!

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

Out of curiosity what temperature would you rate an overstuffed Freeze? Compared to my husband, I tend to sleep cold, but I'm half his size so no telling if that means I'm normal and he sleeps hot or not. I already have my gear either bought or on my to get list that compliment quilt sleeping and am already in line to use my worn clothes as sleeping insulation but I've yet to decide on the exact quilt I wanted and after your last post I'm glad I hadn't pulled the trigger on that yet.

[te – wa]

the standard fill Freeze got me down to 20 a couple of times. an extra ounce is good insurance!
it can also be vented so you can use it up to 65 or so, beyond that you pro'lly wont use a UQ.

I have dark purple, and sky blue! pick your poison..

[Joslyn Bloodworth]

Hopefully I'll be able to get one soon. My first order of business is ordering my hammock and tarp fabric which I'm happy to say will be this weekend!

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