Hydration and water sources

[STEVE ANDERSON]

Bill. I also tried sucking water through a hydration tube, from waist height, and had no problem. Even with a nearly empty bag. I don’t see a problem with using 500ml or 1200ml bags; it would just take more of them. Could a belt be designed to have mesh pockets all the way around, allowing a person to insert two, four or six 500ml bags, as needed?

[Bill Fornshell]

I think adding more than two bags to the hip belt becomes a factor of your waist size. Using the feed bags for water at 14″ long each, 3 would require a 42″ waist. I don’t want this to sound silly but my waist size is 34″. I will not ask yours.

I have looked back at all the Platypus bags and they have 6 that might work. They are
5″ x 7.5 = .5L – Platy Bottle – .7oz
6″ x 10″ = 1L – Platy Bottle – .8oz
6″ x 11″ =1L – Platy Reservoirs – .8oz
6″ x 16″ = 2L – Platy Reservoirs – 1oz
6″ x 12″ =1L – Big Zip II – 3.5oz – come with tube
6.25″ x 17″ = 2L – Big Zip II – 4oz – come with tube

A water bottle that is 16″ long is pushing it for me I think. The Platypus in the picture is the 1L 6″ x 12″ Big Zip with the drinking tube attached.

I have a “last year’s” Big Zip 1.8L – 7.5″ x 13″ ($12.00) and they came without the drinking tube. It has a small style cap on one corner. The design is more squared off on the ends but would work with a slight change to the end shape of the current hip belt pattern. It weighs 1.6oz and can have a drinking tube accessory attached to it. The Big Zip opening makes these bottles a little heaiver than the ones with a small cap. For ease of filling the small extra weight might be worth it.

I had forgot about this “last years” Platypus water bag as it stays in a side pocket of my pack. This one would seem to give you more water with 2 bags and fit along the sides of the hip belt. With one drinking tube accessory you could swap it from bottle to bottle. I will call the place I got this bag from and see if they still have any in stock. I will aslo ask if they come in other sizes.

You can buy mesh that should work for a hip belt. I think a light weight grosgrain sewn on the edges for support would be a good idea though.

[John Carter]

I’ve tried the Silt Filter, but the attachments are too small for standard hose sizes (say, a hose connecting it to the Seychelle filter). All I can think of is clamping it down with a metal clamp, but I worry about the leak factor. Any suggestions?

[paul johnson]

Let me think a bit on this. There should be a simple method other than hose clamps. I’m sure someone else already has developed a good method for connecting these filters. Perhaps they’ll be kind enough to share their solution.

Perhaps an automotive parts place will have adapters and couplings to connect them together. There’s typically a fair number of vacuum hoses associated with many automobile engines which require such adapters or couplings.

Being a shade tree mechanic for many years, I can tell you that hose clamps should work really well for preventing leaks.

They are used to secure hoses in automobile cooling systems that acheive a pressure of ~15psi above atmospheric pressure. Your system will not experience these types of pressures, so I would think that leaks are less likely. However, in an automobile, these hoses usually fit quite snugly to begin with, even before clamping. [NOTE: Please be sure to read the next post. Dylan does a much better job explaining, a bit more specifically & clearly, the point that I was trying to get across here, but failed to explain adequately.]

We’re talking about water here, so why not give it a try? Just test it locally on a day hike before counting on its performance during a more serious hike. No harm will result if a leak does occur.

Now you also have me curious. I have both of these filters, but have yet to put together a gravity feed filtration system. Perhaps I’ll raise its priority a bit & then I can report what worked for me.

[Dylan Skola]

In my experience, clamping down a too-large hose on a too-small fitting is likely to be an excercise in frustration, since no matter how hard you crank down on the clamp, the excess hose wall will still “pouch out.” And unless the tubing is extremely soft, that pouch will form a little channel for water to escape.

If the fitting is about 1/2 the diameter of the hose, you can try to find a piece of tubing that just nests inside the hose (i.e. its O.D. is equal to the I.D. of the hose) (use rubbing alchohol to lubricate), and stick your fitting into that, then clamp the whole shebang. Sounds janky but usually works like a charm.

There are lightweight plastic hose-barb to hose-barb adapters that could adapt down to the right size tubing, use them at work all the time, but not sure where to find retail. Vacuum hose fittings I would imagine to be metal.

Finally, for hose clamps, zip-ties or the small metal automotive clamps that use pliers to attach (NOT the worm-screw types) might work, but using a 6 ft gravity feed you’re only talking ~ 2.5 psi, which means that if the hose is sized and attached properly, as Paul said, you might not need them. At least until the (presumably) vinyl tubing gets stretched out by the fitting.

Sorry to be so verbose, but this is subject that has occupied an inordinate amount of my attention (mostly involuntarily) over the last few years.

[paul johnson]

Dylan,

Many thanks for the helpful info. I really appreciated your input. Some really good ideas on the matter.

[Jeremy Best]

To answer the question, “What is the lightest and quickest way to purify water?” Well in my research, the Steripen is the lightest and quickest as it weighs 5.75 oz with Lithium Batteries. It will treat up to 140 16oz bottles of water and each in 45 seconds. The tip will fit into any platy bottle, can be used in a pot or any other open container, and can purify up to 32oz in 90 seconds. With these to combos your purification system would weigh less than 7 oz., nearly half the weight of the lightest filters.

Jeremy

[STEVE ANDERSON]

Well, thanks for not asking, but my waist size is also 34”. I see your point about the limited space for the bladders. I guess to get to the capacity I am looking for I will need some kind of bag or bags that have more depth. Then they would probably need some baffles to keep from sloshing with every step.

Like most of my good ideas, they don’t seem so good after studying the implications and complications. Thanks for the help and the discussion.

[Anonymous]

One problem with the UV-C purification, unlike chlorine or iodine, is that it doesn’t purify the water in the bottle threads or hose. So if you’re paranoid enough to worry about that, then you need to work out some way of filling the bottle without getting the threads wet, or wipe the threads dry before transferring the purified water out of the bottle.

Sounds like a fatal flaw to me unless you do have a way of filling the bottole without getting the threads wet. Wiping won’t sterilize the cap or threads. You also need a way of sterilizing the threads and cap should they get wet–they will.

[paul johnson]

not sure why this is a problem. what particularly are you thinking of? i’d like to learn something from you.

right now, if i’m us UV-C, i 1) fill the bottle; 2) then use a small scrap of pack towel for drying the outside & threads – this is the sole purpose of this piece of towel in my kit; 3) use the Steri-pen; 4) put the bottle top on.

my bottle caps seal tight & so water on the outside from filling (i.e. the threads) does not mix with water in the bottle.

proof of this is that if i fill a bottle at home. dry off the outside. & place the bottle upside down on the kitchen counter-top, 24hrs later no water has leaked out of my bottle onto the counter top. if the pressure of the column of water in the inverted bottle can’t force the water out, then water on the threads can’t really get in.

however, it’s a good idea to dry the threads of both the bottle & cap off first as added insurance since don’t want to chance the slim possibility of the screwing motion of replacing the cap, just b/f being fully tight, of acting as a pump & forcing a small amt (a couple of drops???) of water off the threads & into the bottle.

having said that, i still use Aqua Mira as my primary source of water purification since it’s lighter.

haven’t used UV-C with a bladder yet, but thinking “out load”, so to speak, & off the top of my head w/o giving it much thought, what about this:

if using a Platy bladder,
1) simply remove the drink tube &…
2) put a closure cap on it (if bladder is a Big-Zip; skip this step if just using a hoser)
3) fill the bladder;
4) wipe the threads/zip-closure with scrap of pack towel,
5) use UV-C
6) put tube back on the Hoser, or…
6a) zip closed if filling a Big-Zip,
6b) remove closure cap and
6c) then put tube back on.

when you get a chance, please enlighten me as to what you feel i am doing wrong.

many thanks,
pj

[Douglas Frick]

I bought the AquaStar UV-C water purifier ($95, 3.9oz w/batteries, not including bottle) <http://uvaquastar.com/&gt; and took it backpacking on a 4-day trip into the Enchanted Valley in Olympic National Park. My brother carried a Katadyn Pocket filter (27.5oz dry) for the rest of the group.

Great: one minute wait for a liter of sterile water with no chemical taste. Problems: some concern about raw water on the bottle threads, so I wiped them with a bandana before screwing on the AquaStar (yes, probably still a few bugs left). When I dipped a bottle of water from a glacier-fed mountain stream, the AquaStar refused to start its cycle–it just flashed red. I didn’t have the manual with me, but I thought it might have something to do with the water being too cold. I held the bottle for a while in the sun and after about 15 minutes it was able to start the cycle. I didn’t have any problem with river water. After returning home and reading the manual and FAQ, it’s possible I didn’t have water contact on the sensor in the cap, since the stream water temp probably wasn’t below 35F.

Summary: when it worked it was great. My brother was especially jealous because he ended up doing most of the pumping as well as carrying the pump. I’ll continue to carry a few MicroPur MP1 tablets as backup, and I need to do a bit more testing with cold water. The AquaStar is heavier than iodine/chlorine, but since I can zap a liter and drink it right away, rather than carrying a full liter for an hour waiting for the chemicals to work, I’m carrying less net weight (well, at least on my back).

[Eliza Cava]

On a NOLS course in Australia last year, we were handed little 100-pill bottles of Katadyn Micropur. Each pill treated a liter, and as we were very far from civilization we didn’t worry about metal contaminants, etc. I’m pretty sure this is the same stuff as those 30-pill packages available around here, but the 100-pill varieties don’t seem to be sold in the states. Anyone know if they’re available some other way? They are tasteless and odorless and kill everything, including viruses, and could be easily combined with an inline system or a simple particle filtration setup for clean, taste-free water. I wish I had pocketed a few more bottles when I was down there!

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Eliza, I have a point of contact at Katadyn and just called them to ask about the 100 pill bottle. I was told that that product is not approved for sale in the US. They knew of it but thought it was somehow different. Someone could bring them with them if they were visiting here or returning here but they can’t be officially shipped in by anyone and sold here.

[archeopteryx .]

It looks like Micropur comes in lots of variations. The one approved in the US is Micropur MP1 which is uses chlorine dioxide like Aqua Mira. The Katadyn site for Canada shows Micropur Classic (based on silver ions, not effective against viruses) and Micropur Forte (silver ions plus chlorine to inactivate viruses). They also have something to neutralize the chlorine taste. I wonder if it would work on the taste of MP1 as well. Unfortunately MEC only sells MP1. I wonder if the others aren’t approved for sale in Canada either. I suppose these might show up on ebay occasionally. Do you think it’s illegal to ship these tablets to the US if they’re not approved? I know that Aqua Mira isn’t approved for sale in California, but I think it’s still OK to buy it online from an out of state retailer.

[David Lewis]

Douglas Wrote:

“One problem with the UV-C purification is that it doesn’t purify the water in the bottle threads or hose.”

I use a Heineken can as my cooking pot and since it’s so small, I can keep it in an outside pocket of my pack. I use that to scoop water from streams and pour it into my bottles… being careful not to get the threads wet. I don’t worry about contaminating the can since it gets heated when I cook with it.

[Douglas Frick]

>I use a Heineken can as my cooking pot…I use that to scoop water…

Good idea. I use either a Heine-pot or a Mirro grease pot, so either would work for most water sources. So far I just wipe the bottle threads dry using a bandana, but I’m thinking of carrying a cut-off Cantene, Little Nipper or similar semi-stiff bag that could be used to scoop flat water, fit into crevices to gather dripping water, or be spindled and used as a funnel to keep the bottle threads clean. Such an item wouldn’t weight much. My plastic map protector (1.2 oz) could do the job as long as I wiped it really dry afterwards, making it a multi-use item.

[Bill Fornshell]

It seems Gossamer is testing some type of water belt. Those looking for this type item might want to check them out.

And by the way Gossamer Gear has made some big changes and is moving to Austin, Texas.

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