Mountain Hardwear Waypoint tent?

[Glenn Roberts]

Does anyone have any experience with the single-wall Waypoint tent? In particular, I’m interested in how it works in hot, humid weather (the Ohio Valley in August.)

[paul johnson]

Glenn,

i own the solo version.

about the shelter:

very light – esp. w/Ti stakes. as light or lighter than the Bibler Tripod Bivy. i weigh it at, as it is carried in my pack, 2lb 5oz, but, please, take that with a grain of salt (or should i say drop of condensation, but i’m gettin’ ahead of myself…). your weight may vary an ounce or two.

it’s also quite easy to set up – IMHO.

great “stealth” color – sort’a OD green.

decent room for one+gear (i.e., me+gear). so that you don’t get the wrong idea here, let’s just say i’m on the short side with a relatively broad chest/shoulders – suit size 40 XS (xtra-short) waist 30-32 depending upon whether you catch me b/f or aft. dinner – so..built sort of like a jumbo-sized dwarf.

i think i’ve read, some time ago, in a post (or an email that you sent to me) that you are over 6′. so, it might be a little cramped for you. also, i was using LW gear – just swapped out my bivy for the tent (pack was ~10-12lbs at the time – sans food & water) – so, not much gear to haul inside the tent.

good head room (at least for a 40XS).

would seem to work fine in some conditions.

as to your specific question, my ans. is:

how do spell STEAM-BATH?

short ans:

Waypoint1.

you wouldn’t believe how wet a steam-b…, er…i mean tent can get until you experience it when there is no breeze. it’s the closest thing to a VBT (Vapor Barrier Tent) that i’ve ever come across.

long ans:

you had better hope that there is a constant breeze or wind all night (and that you faced the “tail” of the tent into the wind – the “down-lo” vent is there for air intake), otherwise this is a poor choice for hot, humid conditions, more so when it is raining outside and/or there is no breeze.

there is no bug netting on the door, so you can’t leave that open to improve ventilation even when it stops raining (at least if blood thirsty “skeeters” are on the prowl – ok…you could bathe in DEET b/f turnin’ in for the night or use a “bug bivy” of sorts – adding 3-6oz to your load). no vestibule, so all gear comes inside.

VBclothing would help some, but i’ve read that ~half of the water we lose while sleeping comes from exhaled air. not sure of the exact proportions, but even using VBC, the water vapor being exhaled all night might still cause a fair amt. of condensation. besides…as good as VBC might be in some conditions, who wants to wear VBC when it’s 95 deg outside during the day & 85-88 deg at night with rel. hum. 70% or greater? heat stroke may start to become an issue.

perhaps the waypoint2 would be better for one due to its larger internal volume, but perhaps only a little better – i don’t know. however, you would lose the weight advantage the ‘1’ offers if you used the ‘2’ for solo. for two, the w/p2 would prob. suffer as badly as the w/p1 does using it solo – but, i’ve never done this so this is just my uninformed opinion.

other uses for this tent could be for a horizontal version of “Sweatin’ to the Oldies”, or a giant solar still for collecting water (hey..you don’t even need the “Solar” part – it works even in the dark – just add one warm body, and voila, the next morning you have up to 8+ oz of distilled water!!! – perfect for making that morning cup of “joe”!)

however, i’m sure that under the right conditions it makes a fine shelter. it does have some good points, but in wet, humid conditions with little or no breeze, it should be at the bottom of the list. there are some things i really liked about this tent, but i didn’t really get to have my expectations realized because i had selected the wrong conditions in which to use the tent. i believe that your conditions will be similar to mine & therefore this tent is not appropriate for use in your case – IMHO.

so, in the final analysis, perhaps the blame for the poor performance of this tent should be placed upon me instead of the tent. however, having said that, it would be nice if all of the advertising for this tent mentioned the conditions under which this tent should not be used. before i purchased it, i don’t recall ever reading of its shortcomings in any advertisement. …but then, perhaps the purchaser is expected to be experienced enough to know better?…and i’ll be the first to admit i’m no Dr. J or GVP…so…i didn’t know better!!! [“Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from making mistakes!”] if i made the mistake for both of us – at least some good will come out of it.

do you want to borrow mine?…”nah…i didn’t think so.”

hope this info helps some.

take care,
pj

p.s.
the opinions expressed here are just that… OPINIONS, & are purely my own. “your mileage may vary”, so to speak – and i truly hope it does.

[Glenn Roberts]

That was exactly the information I was looking for. Sounds like we’re actually about the same size – I just hit 6′, weigh 195 (before supper) and wear a 40 or 42 “corporate cut” (formerly, “portly”) jacket and 30 or 32 inch waist.

I didn’t realize that there was no mesh door (in fact, the REI description said, “mesh doors and windows help with ventilation”) – that’s a deal-killer right there.

I was looking at it to replace a tarp-and-bivy combination, simplifying life and saving a few ounces in the process.

I’m currently trying to decide between two sets of gear: light and ultralight. The light set (which is heavy on MSR, pardon the pun) weighs about 15 pounds; the ultralight set is about 11. The Waypoint would have gone into the ultralight set.

Thanks again – that was exactly the information I needed.

[paul johnson]

Glenn,

perhaps the ’05 model added the mesh door.

a mesh door won’t solve the condensation problem since the outdoor would need to be closed as long as it rained – no “beak” or vestibule to prevent rain entry through the mesh.

my w/p1 is older & does NOT have the mesh door.

you wrote “same size”. sounds like you’re a 40 tall. so, perhaps in chest & waist we’re the same size. …so, other than height, weight, and hair color we’re identical twins!!!

let’s just say you’ve got a few…ok…truth be told…quite a few inches on me.

you might want to try a HS TarpTent (Virga2 or Squall2 since you’re taller). i believe the ‘2’ is for 2nd generation. the Virga2 is a solo shelter; the Squall2 is a 2person shelter.

they are lighter than most “standalone” bivies (Bibler, ID, OR, etc.) which provide “hooped”-pole headroom.

i will prob. buy a Virga2 in a few mos., so at this point in time, i have no experience with one.

the Virga2 is ~24oz, & the Squall2 ’bout 6oz heavier. so they’re both fairly light no…not not tarp and vaprBivySack light, but lighter than many other options & great ventilation.

i’ve read other posts in other threads on BPL & it sounds like it could be perfect for your conditions, and light in weight too.

why don’t you search the forum posts for “tarptent” & see what you come up with.

there are a lot of experienced people out there who have made posts on the HS TarpTent products.

i think the BPL staff highly recommends them? i don’t mean to put words in their mouth, so you should verify this.

did i mention that the TarpTents were light?!!!

take care,
pj

[Glenn Roberts]

Wow, Paul, this must be my lucky day.

I once owned a Silshelter, and was fairly pleased with it. (I gave it to a hiking buddy as a going-away gift when he moved to Colorado.) However, it always seemed to fall just a tad short because there wasn’t any mesh – as a result, I always used it with a Mountain Hardwear sleeping bag cover/bivy that was mesh from the waist up. Not a bad compromise, but not the best. If only there were a mesh insert…

I was checking out a couple of the other tents you mentioned at Backcountry Gear, when lo and behold, there was the Silbug liner for the Silshelter! At last – the perfect tent for me! (As I said, I had always liked the Silshelter. A lot. Hated to get rid of it, but my buddy was headed to beautiful backcountry, and him with no shelter…)

It took about 3 minutes to order the liner and another Silshelter (my wallet was in the next room.) I’ll let you know how it looks when it comes. However, if you want to see it, go to http://www.integraldesigns.com and look under Tarps. (The description for it at BCG isn’t the right one – they transposed the Siltarp description to it.)

Looks like either piece can be used alone – on clear nights, I can pitch the bug net only; on fall, bug-free nights, I can use the Silshelter alone. And, the rest of the time, I can use it as a full tent. Like I said, I’ll let you know as soon as it gets here.

Glenn

[Marcus Needham]

Glenn, I notice that ID list the new bug liner as being a whopping 17oz–more than the Silshelter itself. Don’t you think the total weight is too high when compared with say a Virga, or a GG Spinnshelter with its optional bug insert? I own a Silshelter, but I’d go with the Spinnshelter if (when!) I was buying again.

[Glenn Roberts]

I suppose it’s all in your perspective: a “Whopping” 17 ounces to you is better than the 21 ounce bivy sack it replaces to me. The 33-ounce combined Silshelter and bug liner is “feather-like” to me compared to the 54-ounce Zoid 1 tent I sometimes use. (And, compared to the 7-pound Timberline I used to willingly carry, “back in the day,” anything we have now is incredibly light. Have we perhaps become jaded? Absolutely – and I wouldn’t un-jade myself for anything!)

I suppose that I could have found lighter, including the tents you and Paul mentioned. But, for me, it came down to the fact that I really liked my Silshelter. I also like the fact that, on a clear night, I can pitch just the bug shelter. It also looks like I can still enjoy what is, to me, one of the real advantages tarps offer: if it’s raining, you can set up the tarp first, then put up the bug shelter (be it bivy or Silbug) from inside. Few tents allow that; I know (from damp experience) that you can’t do that with my Zoid.

[Steve Chesterton]

Glenn,

Paul nailed it. I have the WP2. If you’re pointed into a breeze, you’re good, otherwise condensation is significant. I’ve also wished for bug netting to improve the performance. The ’05 doesnt add this, only a new scandium pole instead of the current Easton I believe. Due to the lack of mesh and in tent rain storm, I’m now using the Black Diamond Firstlight as my solo tent, but it can hold two. I’ve had it out two nights, zero condensation, so far so good. It’s three pounds however.

[Dondo .]

Glenn, as a long time user of the Silshelter, I am eagerly awaiting your report on the Bug Liner. Currently, I use a piece of tyvek(4 oz.) with my Silshelter and add an A-16 bug bivy(6.5 oz.) when needed. The extra freedom of movement in buggy conditions provided by the Bug Liner may well be worth the additional 6.5 oz.

[Glenn Roberts]

I took the new Silshelter Bug Liner out this weekend. I was helping with a Scout backpacking orientation, and we needed a tent to “reserve” our site while we were out hiking. I didn’t actually use it, but I did set it up – and discovered that I really need to work with it a lot more.

These are all first impressions, based on one setup and about 15 minutes of tinkering before the rest of the group showed up. The bug shelter, alone, pitches very nicely with one hiking pole. Some cords attached at the foot end provide some tensioning that holds the netting mostly off of your feet. However, the sides still tend to slump inward, and may reduce it to a one-person tent instead of two-person. Also, the pole placement is awkward: the zippered door is bisected by the pole, making entry and egress a little acrobatic. Again, a little more experience with the liner might solve some of these problems (but not the pole placement.)

I then pitched the Silshelter over it, and noted a couple of possible problems. First, there’s no provision on the liner for propping up the foot end from the inside (no matching pole cup like the Silshelter – could mean a wear-hole on the mesh eventually.) Of course, there is the option of tying off the Silshelter from the outside to a hiking pole or tree. Without some method of raising the foot end of the Silshelter, the tarp interferes with the guy-outs on the foot end of the liner, and turns the liner into mostly folds of material.

I had also forgotten two other things: the Silshelter takes a lot of stakes – 10 or 12 isn’t too many. Fortunately, the liner can attach to the same stakes.

Also, the Silshelter’s method of crossing the vestibules over to close in the front is somewhat awkward. (I think I’ve read some other tips on attaching a cord and using an extra stake to make it more convenient.)

Overall, my first impression was mixed: it doesn’t pitch as tautly as the company photos make you believe, and there are some spots where the liner’s design conflicts with the tarp’s design. However, these possible defects appear to be solvable with a little more practice, and some additional guyouts. I’m going to fiddle with it some more in the backyard, and see what happens.

In the end, the fiddle factor to get it pitched properly may more than offset the 12 ounces or so I’ll save by using the Silshelter instead of my Zoid 1. I’d be very interested in others’ experience with this product (and might be willing, eventually, to send you one to experiment with!)

[paul johnson]

Glenn,

Just in case it’s not too late for you to return the SilShelter & bugnet, I have a couple of alternatives for you (if it is too late & you are so inclinded, perhaps you can sell it on this website?).

Here are some other alternatives.
1) a HS (Henry Shire’s) TarpTent – Virga2 or Squall2
2) Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo e
3) Moonbow makes, under license from HS the HS ‘Original’ TarpTent,as well as slightly larger versions of the ‘Original’

Both are reviewed on the BPL website, but in both cases older models are reviewed & both models have newer versions.

Take care,
pj

[Glenn Roberts]

Thanks, Paul – probably too late to return it since it’s been rained on, and since the birds nailed it the next day. (Remember me saying it was left up as a site-reserver? It evidently also made a great bombing range for the local jays and robins.)

Thanks for the suggestions, too. If I can’t get the Silbug to work, I’ll probably just stay with my Zoid 1. I really like it; buying the Silshelter/Silbug was primarily motivated by impulse and a remembered favorable impression of the Silshelter (“if it only had a mesh liner”), not by a desire to pare out more weight.

I really suspect that it can be made to work well together; it’s probably a piece of cake to someone who’s used to pitching tarps in more styles than A-Frame, and who has a little more patience with fiddling to get the setup right than I do. I’m going to give myself the summer to play with it (and a couple of other pieces of gear.) If they don’t work out for me, well, it won’t be the first time my “reject” gear helped some young Scout get outfitted for the trail. I also suspect you or Ryan could find some deserving, but broke, thru-hiker that would be delighted with them if I’ve used up my quota of Scouts.

[paul johnson]

Glenn,

Here are some links to reviews. They may have some tips on setup.

BPL review

BackpackGearTest.org

Take care,
pj

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