Waterproof/Breathable Cuben Fiber Jacket

[Steven Evans]

I just had this finished up today so I haven't put up a webpage on it yet – I'll update this page when I do. I'm away/busy this weekend so I'll just give you a preliminary look. It is made using the Liberty Ridge Jacket pattern from thru-hiker. It is a size XL which is HUGE but well sized for a guy my size who plans on layering some serious insulation underneath. I used CTB1B3-1.0/NF fabric from cuben fiber. Sewn with the thru-hiker hydrophobe thread. I think I need to put elastics or drawstrings at the waist and wrist but other than that it turned out quite nice. Total weight is 2.8 oz. I had it made extra long in the back because I hate when jackets ride up on me. The fit is very baggy so if someone who were smaller or wanted a tighter fit could definitely get that weight down quite a bit.

Additional info on my webpage.

Waterproof/Breathable Cuben Fiber Rain Jacket

[drowning in spam]

Very nice. I can't wait to find out how it performs.

[Javan Dempsey]

Steven,

I see you decide to try the colored side out like I did on the footbox of a quilt I'm finishing up. ;)

We both may live to regret it brother. I clawed at it quite a bit to see if abrasion was going to be an issue, and it didn't appear to be, until I got nearly done, and I started to notice a few loose "hairs".. Ultimately, it probably wont affect performance, but be prepared for some fuzziness as the spectra strands de-laminate.

edit: resist the urge to try and pull them off, once they start, it's a cascade.

[ziff house]

dieing to know what is this stuff, not regular cuben?, whats the composition. State secret maybe.

[Ismail Faruqi]

hi, is cuben fiber is a WP/B fabric?

[Tim Marshall]

cubic tech is developing a WPB cuben. STeve got some and made this awesome jacket. They are still testing it i believe and aren't planning full scale production (if i remember correct from talking to them) but a lot of UL cottage gear guys are testing gear with it right now. Lots of bivies being tested as i've heard.

-Tim

[Steven Evans]

Javan,
Thanks for the heads up! I really don't have any field experience with this fabric. I figured a jacket would be a good way for me to see how it performs. I'm off this weekend with it for some winter fun and will report back.

[Javan Dempsey]

NP man, like I said, won't really affect performance from what I've seen, it'll just be quirk that annoys you more than anything.

It's hard to think about the ptfe side not being the weakest link when comparing the wpb cuben varieties to the standard ptfe faced with woven fabrics which are inevitably the "right side".

The spectra on the NF is really just laminated directly to the ptfe layer. However, in this case, for being the equivalent of a "two layer WPB fabric", comparing say to 2-layer eVent, this stuff really excels, since it's much lighter, yet doesn't really suffer any new draw-backs in the appropriate applications.

BTW, forgot to mention it, but the jacket looks great. ;)

[Steven Evans]

Javan,
I was looking at your mitts that you were offering up a little while ago. I realize the fabric was a different version than in this jacket but it appeared as though you used the fabric in the opposite orientation (equivalent to using my jacket inside out) than I did on my jacket. Maybe it's just the picture and I am totally wrong but wanted to check because that would suck if I did it wrong :)

[Philip]

Steven,

Jacket looks great. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on performance of the material once you have put it to use.

[Javan Dempsey]

Steven, the regular model number without the "NF" code (which stands for "no-face" I believe) has the white ptfe layer on both sides. It's the same regardless of which side is out.

Think of it this way:

CTB1B3-1.0: ptfe|spectra(color)|ptfe

CTB1B3-1.0/NF: ptfe|spectra(color)

AFAIK most of it has the same weight spectra and ptfe layers, the only difference is the extra ptfe layer on the CTB1B3-1.0

[Javan Dempsey]

Just want to clarify also, that Cubic implied that the ptfe(white) side of the "NF" series is the "right side", however, when I used the NF stuff on a quilt, I tried it with the same orientation as you, since I wanted to see the color.

Supposedly Cubic is working on making the color more prominent through the ptfe layer, since on the non-NF stuff, it's barely visible with OD coloring.

Steven, PM me your addy if you want a sample of the 3-layer equiv. Sorry folks, this isn't a blanket offer, just for Mr. Evans.

[drowning in spam]

If this stuff is fragile on one side, it might be better as part of a jacket with multiple layers, like a puffy jacket.

[Javan Dempsey]

I wouldn't say it's particularly more fragile on one side or the other, simply that some of the spectra fibers can disconnect from the ptfe layer, making it seem kind of "hairy". The NF series was definitely developed with the assumption that you'd likely want to use a liner with it, and the orientation turned around, so it's probably not "bomber" this way, but for our purposes, I think it'll work just fine.

I wouldn't want to be bushwhacking in either series, but for a minimalist rain jacket, seems perfectly reasonable to use the stuff if you're looking to save weight.

[Steven Evans]

Long story short, I didn't really get a chance to try it out this weekend.

Javan,
I'm learning alot about this stuff just from your posts in this thread. I only had the hard numbers on it and nothing esle, so thanks. Would you know if the fabric breathes the "same" amount in either direction, and is just as waterproof on either side. That is my only concern with regards to orientation. I remember Tim Marshal mentioning one time that it may not work well on a quilt because of this. I sent the same questions to Cubic Tech but thought I would see if you had any info.

[Javan Dempsey]

Steven I believe it does. I'm just going based on the fact that the 3-layer equivalent doesn't even have a right or wrong side, just two equal ptfe outers. I think that as long as the appropriate environmental differential is in place, the moisture will flow out from the heat/humidity source, i.e. your body, on either of these "fabrics".

I'm not a textile/laminate/whatever engineer, so I'm working based on assumptions and anecdotal evidence.

FWIW, turned with the white side out, I think this NF series stuff is very appropriate for a quilt, I'm thinking about making a summer quilt using the NF fabric for both inner and outer, in order to equalize MVTR rates between both sides. Not sure how it'll perform, but I'm hopeful.

[Devin Montgomery]

Way cool, Steve! Are there any breathability stats available on the fabric?

[Tim Marshall]

I talked to Jon again and he confirmed that it breathes just as well in both directions. I am still hesitant to try it in a quilt as i am sure vapor will get trapped inside. it might be worth a try but i am very skeptical.

-Tim

[Javan Dempsey]

Tim,

Yeah that's why I'm thinking about using it on both the inner and outer of a quilt in hopes to equalize the moisture transmission.

I've finished a quilt for myself using the NF stuff in the footbox, so I guess I'll see how it performs in that capacity too, that particular quilt uses .33oz cuben baffles, so the moisture wont be able to migrate thru baffles out the non-wp shell sections.

[Steven Evans]

Javan,
Look forward to hearing how that quilt works out for you.

Devin,
Got a quick webpage up on my site. Link is in the original post with performance numbers posted. Enjoy!

[Devin Montgomery]

Cool! Going directly.

[Tim Marshall]

Javen,

Very interested in how it goes as i was planning to use it for both the inner and outer layer when i first contacted them. I am very hesitant though as i suspect the vapor will pass the inner layer fine but not pass the out layer as well as it is farther from your body heat and closer to the cold which could cause it to condense and freeze. This used to happen with epic shelled bags and breathable liners which should have passed vapor way better than this stuff can (as Epic isn't fully waterproof i am assuming it breathes better, also the addition of breathable liner should allow the shell of epic to breath better as heat would pass to it easier). I did consider using the WPB for the shell and the regular stuff for the liner to keep the quilt VB but give the shell a way to breathe while still being waterproof but the added weight of the coating has deterred me away in favor of the simple stripe solution.

-Tim

[David Olsen]

Is this WP/B laminate on the cuben the same stuff (teflon) as used in Gore/eVent products? If so,
unless it is also coated with a PU layer like Goretex, or one of Cubic's mylar films,
it should be comparable to eVent at vapor transmission rates.

Also, I don't buy that Epic treated fabrics cause more condensation that other DWR treatments. I think people who have experienced condensation when using such fabrics
would have also had the same experience, all other things equal, if they had used
Momentum, etc.

[Javan Dempsey]

David,

It is a very similar layer of ptfe like event or gore, the NF series is just spectra laminated with ptfe on one side, and the non-NF series has ptfe on both sides of the spectra core. I don't believe it's coated, breathability seems quite good.

I was given some MVTR and HH numbers, they didn't look like the ones eVent and Gore use, but I have no idea what testing model they used, and I'm guessing they haven't learned to fabricate insane lab-world numbers yet.

Who knows, seems very good to me so far, but I've only had a chance to use it in weather where all of them perform decently. We'll see how it holds up as spring rolls around.

[Steven Evans]

You guys are gonna get a kick out of this. I was exchanging some e-mails with Cubic Tech and they saw the pics of this jacket. Anyway, he asked me if I removed the protective liner from the fabric..and I'm like "Huh?". Yeah, so I peeled off a thin plastic layer that comes stuck to the colored side and guess what – it weighs almost as much as the fabric itself. New weight of this rain jacket is 80 grams (2.8 oz). I'm so hyped!

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