“Bearier” bear cannister

[obx hiker]

I believe Bob has a point; The thing does appear to be capable of traveling a ways once it got rolling. I've been studying the past few years of bear canister threads recently as I try to decide upon a course of action for a future trip out to the left coast…..land of the Californi….. .never mind….. I must say Bob appears to be the Diogenes of Bear Canister philosophers on this blog. You know Diogenes lived in a big barrel sort of resembling a bear canister.

Isn't the general idea of canisters (I can't find a published set of rules for canister design) that they be at least cylindrical and with a general near 9" diameter so ol' Yogi can't crush the thing in his mighty jaw? Speaking of which it seems a major disadvantage to the ursack is brother bear can get his hands/paws and mouth around it…… basically meaning that you the hiker are back to the backwoods basics of discouragement by evasion? You know triangulation, a good hang, a clean site and maybe a loksak while you're at it. Doesn't seem the ursack offers the proper degree of discouragement; more like a fair degree of enticement which could be described as encouragement; at least so far as giving it a thorough and determined go from the bears point of view ( I know……anthropocentric of whatever, hell I've been hungry too)

Seems like if you want to teach the bears to give it up you have to have a bear-proof canister that doesn't fail and better yet they can't really get a purchase on…which is one thing that looks promising about this new can.

But I could see that thing going a long ways down the right slope. Hell I had a full pack take off on an avalanche "meadow" near Cascade Pass one time. Set it down, it flopped over once with just enough momentum to roll again and next thing you knew it was taking 10 and 20 foot leaps and bounds and it didn't stop till it run clean through the meadow and sailed into a ticket just short of a shear 500 foot ledge; the bottom of which, if it didn't snag on the way down as things do when your luck is running this way; was another half days hike. I can imagine one of these (or I expect most other canisters as well) getting started down such a slope and good night Irene.

I understand the canister will have loop holes on the exterior or something equivalent for rigging straps or what have you. Maybe if you were camping near a slope you could attach a length of cord with a stick on the end to discourage the thing from becoming a rolling stone.

And check this out: "The Bearier 700 just won Editor's Choice for Best New Product at the Outdoor Retailer Winter Market" from the makers website just now.

[Bob Gross]

I was once very resistant to the idea of bear canisters. I had practiced the two-rope counterbalance hang in Yosemite for 20 years of group trips with perfect results. Then one time I had signed up for another leader's Yosemite trip, and he made canisters a requirement. So, I bought a Garcia and used it. If you are not used to them at all, you will find them to be a PITA at first. Later, you just resign yourself to it and try to learn to take advantage of a canister as a chair or table. Some years later, I bought a Bear Vault, and it seemed a little better. Then later, I bought the small Bear Boxer. For a longer trip, I might carry the Bear Vault, and for a shorter trip, I might carry the Bear Boxer.

Note that the small Bear Boxer is smaller in diameter than the rest of the market. Still, it is big enough that a standard, garden-variety, Yosemite black bear can't get its mouth onto it to bite, and it can't find any holes big enough to apply teeth or claws. I don't think that this Bearier should have exterior loop holes for straps, although interior would be OK.

In Yosemite, it has gotten to the point where the bear walks into camp at midnight, sees the canister, knocks it over with one paw, then continues walking. I generally plant my canister in the middle of some big rocks so that the bear can't get any rolling started.

I'm always amazed when I see somebody putting their bear canister into a thin nylon sack so that they can hoist it up into a tree. Then they tie off the rope near ground level. Geez! That's bad. The bear finds the rope, and bites it or claws it until it fails. The sack with canister falls to the ground. The bear bites the sack and carries the whole works off for further examination.

I still advocate decoys. Hang up an empty brown paper sack with a piece of bright white cord, maybe 8 feet off the ground. It has no food in it, so the rangers can't hassle you about it. The bear spends a while fooling with it, and you get the flash photos.

–B.G.–

[Zac Rubenson]

@Tony: We're expecting the GrubHub to add about a pound (specific weight tbd) and ~300 cu in. And we definitely hope to be approved by Jul/Aug.

@David: Thanks for the support! The UL crowd seems the most excited thus far – a few unmentionable UL pack companies have even approached us about designing a pack specifically around the Bearier.

@Eugene: Each half of the Bearier has its own integrated straps, so you're able to strap each dome half to your pack individually. We did this because it allows more versatile packing solutions. Additionally, should you want to put it in your pack, the opening of each dome can be placed flat against your back, eliminating the spine pain caused by the round surface of other units. If you'd like to attach the assembled Bearier to the outside of your pack, each half has external holes that allow you to attach cord for strapping or tree hanging. If you'd like to keep the Bearier assembled inside your pack, the locking mechanism contains external guards to prevent the lock springs from rubbing on the contents of your pack. All of these features exist on the GrubHub as well. We also plan on coming out with a half-sized dome that can be used with one of the full-sized domes for a total capacity of 400-500 cu in and a much smaller pack size.

@Derek+Kristin: Since the whole Bearier/GrubHub system is totally modular, you can stack it as high as you'd like. If you're the kind of hiker that refuses to eat anything but 4 foot Subway sandwiches, we've got you covered. This flexibility also allows fisherman to pack a full-size fish inside the system, pack it with snow, and have a bear-proof fish container.

@Travis: We plan on coming out with a half-sized dome that can be used with one of the full-sized domes for a total capacity of 400-500 cu in and a much smaller pack size.

@Tony: We'll be doing some serious engineering to ensure the half-size dome will still pass all testing standards (including actual bears).

@Cola: Rolling is certainly a concern with ANY bear canister on the market. Cylinders roll too. That said, we're working on partnering with PacSafe to come out with a super-strong attachment mechanism. Most hikers seem to prefer the bare minimum, weight-wise, as long as it's approved. I'll bet people would start using Tupperware if it got approved somehow.

[obx hiker]

No worries Zack, That whole biz about the can rollin off the mountain was strictly tongue in cheek entertainment. kinda like disqualifying the can because you can't sit on it. I like dual or multi use gear as much as anyone but sheesh.

Congratulations on The Editors Prize. You must be deservedly proud!

[drowning in spam]

If you'd like to attach the assembled Bearier to the outside of your pack, each half has external holes that allow you to attach cord for strapping or tree hanging.

That sounds like the ideal solution for me. Thanks.

[Hiking Malto]

Cola,
The Ursack can be grabbed and crushed by the bear but their teeth are not sharp enough to rip into the kevlar, so there is no food rewartd for the bear. The aluminum sleeve is suppose to stop the crushing but at that point you might as well carry a canister.

[obx hiker]

Exactly.

I imagine Samuel Clemens could've written a story centered around an evenings entertainment observing a bear dancing around with an ursack that'd bring tears to your eyes. And adding that aluminum canister doesn't seem like it'd reduce the opportunity for dramatic entertainment all that much. I think you'd be about as well off carefully keeping the scent away, hanging properly and so forth except if all else failed maybe with an ursack you'd luck up and keep your food though it might be pre-chewed.

I think I'd rather get a little peace of mind and simplicity for my 2 lbs and ??$$ I mean why bother? It just seems like theres a long string of holes in the ursack theory but hey I'm all ears (or eyes on a blog)

[Joseph Reeves]

The Ursacks work really well here in Southeast Alaska, and especially if used with the OPSak. We've used ours for 10 years on Admiralty, Chichagof and Baranof Islands, as well as around Juneau (tied well, then secured to a limb of a tree). They are the most commonly used barrier here, though it is true that most people simply hang their food in a bag.

I'll admit a canister is more comfortable to sit upon, but I'd rather have the weight advantage — and the space advantage once the food diminishes — of an Ursack.

Maybe bears are smarter and bigger Outside, but ours simply can't figure out how to get at the food.

[drowning in spam]

Of course an Opsak can be used with an Ursack, and an Ursack can also be hung. Triple protection.

[Anonymous]

"Of course an Opsak can be used with an Ursack"

Isn't this pretty much SOP? If not, it should be, as it saves a lot of potential hassles and aggravation.

"and an Ursack can also be hung."

Probably not a good idea. As Bob Gross pointed out earlier, if the bear chews through the rope and drops the bag, he's got something to grab on to(the tag end of the bagging rope) so he can drag it away and work on it at his leisure.

Regarding comments on the uselessness of the aluminum insert, IMO the insert is well worth the ~14 oz for the added protection it offers. If you properly tie off the Ursack, a bear will have a very difficult time finding any way to bring his jaws into play on the fabric of the Ursack, and will not be able to crush your food in the process. Also, even with the insert an Ursack is ~7 oz lighter than a Bearikade Weekender, the next lightest canister with approximately the same volume.

[Bob Gross]

"…so he [the bear] can drag it away and work on it at his leisure."

Don't underestimate a Yosemite black bear. They take their work very seriously, and the nighttime is not their leisure time. More typically, they sleep by day and patrol at night. They feel as though it is their God-given responsibility as denizens of the forest to see what you brought in the goodie-bag. If they don't capture your food bag, who will? They extend this responsibility for a full inspection of each and every package of food that they encounter. They accomplish that by way of claw and tooth. They are particularly fond of Louis Meyer cold cuts.

Years ago, I was camped near Vogelsang High Sierra Camp in Yosemite. One nearby camper was not sure about his bear canister, so he tied rope around it and hung it over the edge of the cliff. Well, Mister Bear came along at night, clawed or bit the rope, and the canister plunged a hundred feet or more down onto the rocks, thereby splitting it open like one of Gallagher's ripe watermelons. Not recommended.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

"Don't underestimate a Yosemite black bear."

I never underestimate any bear. As for Yosemite, I haven't been back there since 1974 for backpacking, and only once for climbing. Overcrowded, polluted, and infested with bears that are way too numerous and smart for their own, and my, good, not to mention way more rangers than I like to deal with. Yeah, I know, it's beautiful, etc, and the rangers are there for a reason, but I know of places far more beautiful(to my mind) and less encumbered with all of the above unpleasantness.

"They take their work very seriously"

Semantics. I should have said "undisturbed".

"and the nighttime is not their leisure time. More typically, they sleep by day and patrol at night."

Neither is daytime. Allowing for the occasional cat nap or longer interlude of sleep that comes with a full belly, they are open 24/7 in their unending search for enough food to gain the fat they need to survive through the winter. I have seen far more bears during daylight hours than at night, although I suspect part of that is due to where I generally backpack, campsite selection and very careful food management. YMMV, I suppose, depending on the aforementioned variables and probably others unmentioned.

[Hiking Malto]

One Backpacker's Worst Nightmare at Thousand Island Lake

[Bob Gross]

That bear is simply counting the stitches in each bartack and admiring the sewing.

I was camped at Matthes Lake one time. I got up early to start breakfast for the group. One gal left her backpack beside her tent and walked toward the stoves. A second later, I looked toward her tent and saw a bear just like this one. It was up on his hind legs staring down into the backpack and starting to apply its paws. I ran directly at the bear, screaming "Bear, Bear!" The bear waited until I was about halfway to it, and then it dashed off empty. I tried to keep chasing it, but bears are several times faster than I could run. The bear never returned.

–B.G.–

[Ken Helwig]

Great pic Greg! I never knew there were bears at 1000 Island Lake…at least I have never seen on yet………………….

[Hiking Malto]

Haven't seen them either. This was a picture from a Trail journal of a hiker, trail name – Bearcan't. Wanna guess why???? Made an impression on me!

[Ken Helwig]

Nice! I was bragging last summer about my lack of bear experiences before starting the Rae Lakes Loop. I saw 3 bears in 5 hours on day one. (however that was my only day niking due to my back). Long story. I rarely see bears….dunno why.

And as someone who has used Ursack's since they started. I love them. Be smart in using them and they are a fantastic tool!

[Anonymous]

"Long story. I rarely see bears….dunno why."

Maybe you need to reevaluate your personal grooming products, Ken. ;)

re Ursacks:

"Be smart in using them and they are a fantastic tool!"

+1

[Hiking Malto]

Ken, let me guess, you hike clockwised and saw the bears near the Paradise Valley campsites. I've only seen two bears in the "wild" and one was there last year. I think the bears have learned to stay near civilization, tearing into logs for a few bugs is too much work.

[Bob Gross]

When I last went that way, all of the other Paradise Valley campers reported bears during the previous night, but I didn't camp there. Halfway between Woods Crossing and Dollar Lake, there was a young black bear in the bushes by a stream. It's the big, ugly, male black bears that you want to avoid, because they don't take "No" for an answer.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

" I think the bears have learned to stay near civilization, tearing into logs for a few bugs is too much work."

+1, with one possible caveat: when an increasing bear population forces some bears to seek new territory. As an example, last September, as a friend and I were descending the last half mile of JMT/Kern Canyon connector trail, we kicked up a sow and two cubs. They were the first bears I have ever seen in 37 years of visiting that area. I am tempted to correlate this with an increasing problem with bears along the JMT, which is ~3.5 miles from the area I describe; this is a hypothesis, no more, at this point, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

[Bob Gross]

"I am tempted to correlate this with an increasing problem with bears along the JMT"

That's interesting. The bears report an increasing problem with people along the JMT.

–B.G.–

[Anonymous]

"The bears report an increasing problem with people along the JMT."

Talk about ungrateful. Without all those mobile 7-11's, Yogi and company would be back to nuts and berries.

[Keith Selbo]

I certainly like the idea of an ultralight, feature rich bear canister, but I also like dual use to offset the burden of having to carry one in the first place. I don't carry a table or a chair owing to their weight, but they are great luxuries for me, and I've enjoyed using my Bearikade for that reason.

I assume the domes allow them to make it lighter because there isn't a flat surface for a bear to put his weight on or something like that. It's clear these guys are thinking hard about this. I'm sure some future version will be the be-all-end-all of bear cannisters/4season shelters. When that happens

[BlackHatGuy]

I can see not being able to use this as a table, but not sure why people keep saying you can't sit on it. I sit on a swiss ball fully inflated for hours while at the computer, not sure why you couldn't sit on this (that is, as long as it will support the weight).

[Author]

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