Lightweight Backpacking, Wal-Mart Style

[Travis Leanna]

Given the proper skill and knowledge set, I'd wager that cuben, spinnaker, and "what-not" WOULD last longer. Why? Because not only are they tried and tested materials, they are most often assembled into a product by skilled craftsmen. Not vastly underpaid people overseas. I'd also wager that the cuben and spinnaker markets are exponentially less destructive to the environment and human rights than Walmart. There's plenty of merit in being thrifty and I'm not going to judge that. But personally, I'd rather pay the "little guy" 2-3 times as much for a quality, responsibly produced product than the disposable garbage from big box stores.

[James holden]

some of you guys assume that stuff in big box stores is disposable … simply not true

as i said costco carried MADE IN CANADA merino for $15 dollars not too long ago … other stores including wallymart have items that would last through normal usage … the fabric is frequently as strong as UL materials … and the warranty is usually no questions asked

its a disservice to all those dim sum eaters to say that things made there can't be of decent quality … most appliances in the world are made in asia, black diamond makes their cams there, dead bird and other big name brands make their clothes there etc … companies have been making electronics there for years … and wages are rising, china is actually become more expensive to manufacture in

how hard is it to make a pack, or a pot, or a pair of fleece pants … i find the quality of big box discount stores to be sufficient for most cases … its not like everyone here is summiting denali, or climbing el cap, or bushwhacking the amazon

if you want to buy local or cottage thats up to you … just don't pretend that things in big retail discount stores arent any good

and yes i do buy made in canada when i like it …

[Travis Leanna]

Eric,
Perhaps the negative commentary coming from people, including myself, is not directed at the workers who make the products, or even the products themselves (sometimes). My comment above may have been a little misguided in that respect. However, the desire for localizing production, supporting responsible companies, stimulating small business, and scores of other economic and socially related topics are at the heart of the issue.

Socioeconomics aside, most people wouldn't really care where or who made a product, as long as it was a good value and of good quality. Unfortunately, socioeconomics is a HUGE factor in the decisions people make and the viewpoints they take. In the economic climate we're in now, it becomes difficult for people, myself included, to support huge conglomerates when small business are struggling. I admit its tough not to become more polarized as time goes on, especially with the backwards politics and media we're bombarded with each day.

So, while I've nothing against the workers producing goods overseas, I do take exception with the conglomerates. I'll always support my American small business counterparts as much as I can. Yes, I BItch about this country, but I love it as well. Ultimately though, it's really not about being American. It's more about the responsible small business part. I research just about every specialty product or company I buy from. I want to be informed.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be some sort of elitist. I do shop at stores like Target, Home Depot, Sears, and yes, sometimes Walmart. Often those are the stores where the product I need is available. If I know I can get the product from another source, I might defer to that other source.

Bottom line. If a company can present a product that I can feel proud to buy, and I can be proud to support that company as a whole, then I'll gladly be a customer regardless of nationality or location. At this point, for me, I just can't do that for the huge corporations, regardless of the fact that I can buy a tent for $25 that would suffice for a few seasons.

Before I get in over my head with this type of subject, it's time for me to hit the sack. G'night, all!

[Todd Miller]

Good point about Costco Eric. As a scout leader and avid hiker, I marvel at the low-cost high-quaity gear they often carry. I DO buy quality but it never hurts to get a deal at the same time. Costco has had some excellent products in the cold-weather clothing area as well as backpacks, hiking poles, etc. Maybe I will try the $100 challenge there myself…

[Benjamin Roode]

Hey guys!

Thanks for the comments on my article. I'm relatively new to the site but have been outdoorsing for awhile.

I agree on Wal-Mart: I don't like shopping there. In fact, this is the most recent time I can remember shopping at one (in-store or online), and I wrote the article some time ago.

There is a reason I picked Wal-Mart: the article focuses on cheaper alternatives to ultralight gear, mainly to show those who have been scared off by high prices or who are new to the sport that they too can hit the trail. I hypothesized that a lot of Americans in such a predicament are most likely do at least some of their shopping at Wal-Mart in the first place. Focusing on Wal-Mart, despite its poor reputation regarding employee treatment, meant the article could serve its purpose to the most people possible.

I'm happy for the feedback and really want to try the thrift store idea suggested in the comments. I now live a bit closer to potential opportunities (near Harper's Ferry) to try that out.

Thanks again.

– Ben

[Dale Wambaugh]

Server hiccup/double post– sorry

[Dale Wambaugh]

I had been thinking about going through this exercise on paper but never got around to it. It is an interesting exercise, but it does point out issues with sustainability and the social-political issues of big-box retailers.

We should take responsibility for the products we buy, in terms of the products and the organization we purchase them from. Everyone loves a bargain, but buying non-sustainable junk from a retailer with documented predatory business practices is not good for the environment or our communities. I think we should support those suppliers who have good manufacturing and general business practices. It makes little sense to tout the need to save the environment and then do business with the likes of Walmart or Monsanto. Please surf to http://walmartwatch.com and have a look around. You will be amazed at the scope of the issues involved with Walmart. I would keep in mind that Walmart is not the only irresponsible retailer out there, just the biggest.

I am also opposed to buying cheap gear for kids– cheap meaning poorly made goods. Raising a family is expensive, but buying poor quality products teaches them the wrong thing in terms of responsible consumerism and may even turn them away from the outdoor experience due to the poor performance of the products we buy for them. I have railed against buying kids cheap musical instruments for the same reasons; I personally found that trying to play a cheap guitar was physically painful and simply didn't allow many techniques to be practiced. Buying gear that fails, wears out prematurely, and has poor performance just adds more to the landfill and gives kids a distaste for what could be rewarding pastimes.

I think it is far better to buy good used gear, which is recycling in its best form and provides good quality gear at reduced prices.

[W I S N E R !]

If we're going to sit and rail against Wal-Mart and the consumption of cheap, almost disposable goods, why don't we open it up, get honest, and look at the big picture?
Shouldn't we be railing against the overconsumtion of high-quality goods as well? What of those that amass mountains of unused, unneeded cottage gear, just to try it out to find the "perfect" system? So what if it's sold second hand; now we've got trucks and trains burning fuel to re-circulate the stuff.

Are Dri-Ducks more durable than Wal-Mart goods?

I'd wager you'd get just as much life, if not more, out of a Stansport Wal-Mart bag than any UL sil-nylon Gossamer Gear or other cottage offering (no offense to GG).

I'm just saying that if we're going down this road, lets at least get honest.

[Michael L]

I agree with Craig here.

walmartwatch is just a tad biased. Even when walmart is doing what they want they find a way to complain that it isn't enough.

Walmart has done a lot of good and I will happily shop there anytime.

[kevperro .]

Wal-Mart in our community is a blessing and a curse. It is a curse if you are one of the small local businesses that have to compete head-head with them. It is a blessing for the very large sector of society that is at the bottom of the socia-economic ladder. For those who make $20K a year saving a little money and having all their shopping in one location (they ride a bus to shop) is of huge benefit.

In terms of sustainability, I don't think any of us live a sustainable lifestyle. If you take the average American energy usage and resource consumption and translate that to the population of the world it is clear that the globe couldn't support that for any length of time. That isn't an excuse not to change but I think some of the high-horses we climb upon are pretty flimsy.

[PAUL RICHARDSON]

While I can agree that Wal-mart has several flaws and I would certainly recommend purchasing used, quality gear over Wal-mart items, Wal-mart fills a pretty important niche. Having grown up in the rural South, I know many people that would have little to no job opportunities if it weren't for Wal-mart. I also know a lot of people that do most if not all of their shopping there because of price (clothing in particular.) They may want to buy better quality clothing and items, but they can't afford it. Sustainable (responsible) or cheap; pick one.

[Kattt]

+1 Craig

[Lawson Kline]

I agree with Craig. Consumerism is the biggest issue here. Having 10 hi-quality tents that you never use is just as bad as buying 1 "disposable" big box tent. In some cases big box gear will last just as long as UL gear but there are other things at play here including every-time you save a dollar at Wal-mart your that much closer to loosing your job.

I personally think the big gear makers are just as un-responsible as any of the big box stores. They might use higher quality materials but they are still building their gear un-responsibly.

All I can say is buy cottage gear.

[Travis Leanna]

Agreed with Craig and Lawson about consumerism. Just take a walk down the aisles of practically any store and you'll see hundreds and thousands of items that are useless pieces of junk (yes, that's only an opinion) that will find their way to the trash or basement or garage sales in 1-3 years from time of purchase. But, people still buy this stuff because it fills some sort of immediate need, and I won't speculate on people's motives for buying things.

Walmart creates jobs, but it destroys jobs. From the linked study below: "On average, Wal-Mart store openings reduce retail employment by about 2.7 percent, implying that each Wal-Mart employee replaces about 1.4 employees in the rest of the retail sector. Driven in part by the employment declines, retail earnings at the county level also decline as a result of Wal-Mart entry, by about 1.3 percent."

The mom and pop bakery that's been there for 40 years is forced to close. Jimmy's toy store closes from lack of sales. Jimbo's fishing and hunting outlet looses business and he has to fire his employees. And Julie's clothing shop takes a hit and closes. All these stores employed people that now have to find work elsewhere. Perhaps at the new Walmart?

Like it or not, Walmart is here to stay. Personally, I don't like it.

http://www.newrules.org/neumarkstudy.pdf

[Michael L]

####Walmart creates jobs, but it destroys jobs.

The linked study concludes that the retail job growth is lower than in a but-for world of no Walmart. They didn't destroy jobs so much as lead to less growth of them in THE RETAIL MARKET.

1. They even admit that it only applies to retail sector and that "we suspect that there are not aggregate employment effects, at least in the longer run, as labor shifts to other uses."

2. I am not sure that even that might be ignoring the fact that another big box retailer would have taken Walmart's place. In rural towns the first mover is often the only mover. So Walmart gets the blame even though if they didn't enter, Target or somebody else would. The competitor would have the same effect as Walmart. So I don't believe they adequately controlled for this.

Anyway you slice it, Walmart has bad and good. But in the end they get much more of the blame based on their size.

[folecr r]

1) ebay
2) build your own
3) thrift store/surplus store

all of them would get you better gear than what you can buy new at walmart/target/costco. With the added benefit that you could probably sell the gear for very close to what you paid for it.

[Michael L]

I enjoyed the article. Just shows you what can be done. But the reuse of items is great for a variety of reasons!

I have no skills for myog but secondhand stores are alway a nice stop if you are on a budget. Same principle of looking outside your "box".

[Roger Caffin]

As seen from well outside America:

'Underpaid Asian labour': Nice rhetoric, but false. Underpaid with respect to American wages maybe, but competitive with respect to local Asian wages. Otherwise the factories would not get the workers – and note that Chinese wages are rising steadily due to labour demand.

'Wal-Mart puts local businesses out of work': That's called capitalism or competition, which seems to be a core ethic of American society – isn't it? Where's the beef?

'Wal-Mart prices are lower': So the bottom quarter of American society can afford a better standard of living by shopping at Wal-Mart rather than more-expensive shops. Where's the problem with that?

'Walmartwatch': why is it that when some company starts to be successful, a certain fraction of society wants to bash it back down?

My own 2c, not representing BPL in any way.

Cheers

[James holden]

just a few popular products among BPL members that are made in land of wokking the doggie …

– zebralight
– some lightheart tents
– ice breaker
– montbell
– patagonia
– golite
– osprey (nammer doggies)

im sure there are tons of others

now you may say "hey my [favorite] company is different even though they make them in the dim sum factory, they help those poor people afford rice"

well let me ask you this … have you seen their audit trail? … how do you know that they arent made in sweatshops

so is it the reality or the perception that drives the attitude

[kevperro .]

Other finds on the isle of Wal-Mart (I'll repeat my earlier one):

**Trekking Poles: $9.90 for singles with locking levers or $18.88/pr for the adjusting via compression collars.

**Ground Sheets: Painters drop sheets from 0.7mil-4mil

**Alcohol: Heet or denatured alcohol although I've not noticed better prices than some of the big-box home improvement stores. YMMV

**Silicon Spray: The 12oz. spray-on silicon treatment (home made DWR) works great. $4.85/can

**Gortex/DWR/Down Safe Detergent: 18 loads $4.85

**Boots! Yes…. I bought a pair of Herman Survivors for $37 at Wally World and they don't suck. They are certainly not ultra-lightweight but they are very servicable hiking boots. I don't have a ton of trail miles on mine yet but they comfortably replaced my much more expensive boots.

**Insoles: You have to experiment here with what your foot needs. This along with boots is HIGHLY dependent upon your foot, not someone else's.

**Garbage Bags & Zip Locks: I use fresh garbage bags on all my hikes for stuff sacks (one for down, another for clothing) because they are cheap, light weight and they can be good emergency vapor barriers. I also use them as garbage bags after coming home so they don't go to waste.

**Mountain House Meals: Dehydrated meals for $4.88-$7 each. Not a great deal but I always grab several for my hikes because they are easy.

**Bug Juice & Suntan lotion: Both in appropriate sized containers or buy the large size and squirt it into zip-locks.

**Head-lites: They have a good assortment of LED based lights now days that will clip on a hat bill. Cheap…$4-$9 and several versions that use standard AAA batteries for easy replacement.

** Hand Warmers! These are only a couple ounces and if you go out in the cold they can add a couple degrees of comfort to your bag. I throw two in my bag before crawling in at night.

That is all I can think of for now.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

"dan …

i guess we do different things … my stuff usually goes from abrasion … rarely from blown stitching …"

I said my cheap Wal-Mart pack died from blown stitching…not my normal stuff. Well made gear doesn't die from seam failure under normal use but poorly made gear does. The stitching was abnormally weak on this particular wal-mart pack so that even tightening straps to a reasonable tension led to seam tearing on a few occasions. Just something to watch out for if you're pushing the limits of low-cost gear.

As it relates to the discussion on responsible gear purchases….I don't really feel that bad about buying gear and then re-selling it if it doesn't fully suit my needs. Yes reselling incurs some environmental impacts in the form of fossil fuels, but I see the underlying problem here as a problem with our fossil fuel dependent transportation system, not with the practice of selling stuff that isn't quite right for me, to someone who it might be perfect for. Ideally we'd have a transportation system based on clean renewable energy so it didn't matter if we used it. Obviously we're not there yet, but we are moving in this direction (ie. Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf). I'll leave it at that since this is a huge potential discussion.

[Lawson Kline]

Hey Roger,

>>>"'Underpaid Asian labour': Nice rhetoric, but false. Underpaid with respect to American wages maybe, but competitive with respect to local Asian wages. Otherwise the factories would not get the workers – and note that Chinese wages are rising steadily due to labour demand."

I am not sure what year your living in but there is no such thing as local labor rates anymore. Its just as easy if not easier to have something built in Asia as it is domestically. This means American and Australian workers are in direct competition with these underpaid Chinese workers. Their labor demand is rising while ours is shrinking.

>>>>"'Wal-Mart puts local businesses out of work': That's called capitalism or competition, which seems to be a core ethic of American society – isn't it? Where's the beef?

Its called CORPORATISM not capitalism. These companies grow through corruption, predatory business practices, and handouts from the government. This is the core ethic of GREED not America.

>>>>"'Wal-Mart prices are lower': So the bottom quarter of American society can afford a better standard of living by shopping at Wal-Mart rather than more-expensive shops. Where's the problem with that?

Wal-Mart's "low prices" come at a huge cost to the bottom quarter of American society. Essentially every time they spend a dollar at Wal-Mart they are that much closer to having their jobs outsourced.

[kevperro .]

But since I use labor in Asia for my business I'll state that not all labor is the same. There are many disadvantages to using labor in another part of the world other than the obvious shipping/customs issues.

The cost issue is definitely swinging the other way also (a good thing). The bottom line is that most labor intensive jobs are by definition low-wage jobs in a free market. The only way to make them high-wage jobs is either when they require skill/education or when you artificially make them into high-wage jobs (Union, Govt. etc..). We were simply spoiled by the fact that we were the sole functioning industrial power after WWII and we had no competition. It wasn't a sustainable situation.

Going forward I think the best way for American's to compete is in micro-business entities. I don't think big companies are evil. They have their place in the economy but most of our innovation and job creation will come from small & mid-size companies that operate in niche categories. Big companies will always do best in commodity type practices…. where the size and scale of the company has to be big in order to effectively operate. They provide for an important part of the ecosystem though so don't assume they are just evil.

[Travis Leanna]

'Wal-Mart puts local businesses out of work': That's called capitalism or competition, which seems to be a core ethic of American society – isn't it? Where's the beef?

'Walmartwatch': why is it that when some company starts to be successful, a certain fraction of society wants to bash it back down?

---

I encourage competition. Ideally, competition increases quality, standards of business, and improves value. But, we all know that's not how it always works. Still, I encourage competition. Capitalism and competition is indeed a core American ideal. To a point. Here I diverge and continue with opinion and personal feelings that may not necessarily jive with facts or reality.

A healthy economy is one that competes, challenges, and grows. Most everyone benefits from a healthy economy. Yet, there are always winners and losers. Some succeed and some fail. That's a fact of life. When the scales start tipping too far for some business or individuals to even have the chance to succeed, then we start having problems.

When I see bailouts totaling upwards of $10 TRILLION dollars going to giant corporations and financial institutions that have been irresponsible and often downright criminal, but the number of people on food stamps is increasing (around 40 million had received food stamps in February!), things just don't seem right. Though Walmart hasn't received a bailout, the mood is set.

I'm personally tired of giant corporations (and government) having such a large market share that healthy competition ceases and monopolies reign. Small business struggling to make ends meet often fall against the likes of Walmart, which is the largest private employer in the world. They have more employees in the United States than there are Secondary school teachers. Walmart is out-gunning high school education in terms of manpower. And now we know why the likes of Justin Bieber, Sarah Palin, and shows like "The Bachelor Pad" are popular. A de-emphasis on education and an ever increasing emphasis on consumerism makes this a failing state.

"The foundation of every state is the education of its youth." -Diogenes

[Travis Leanna]

Kevin, welcome to the winter wars! Basically, when winter rolls around, people aren't backpacking as much and there is an increase of heavy topics here on BPL. I'd say that 95% of the time intense discussion is never personal even when there are two or more opposing camps. There are just a lot of really smart people here who enjoy a healthy conversation/debate. We just see more of that in winter.

Well, that's my take on it.

[Author]

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