Making a Pulk and need to find right sled

[Bill B]

Beautiful picture, Randy! Maybe a little extra drag from deeper fins would be a benefit when going downhill.

I finished modifying an Emsco Beast sled with my front grommets to attach the poles, and a single aluminum angle runner on the bottom in the center at the rear of the sled. It worked really well going around corners on the trail and on some side hills. It pulled very easily, especially on packed trails.

I've found that crossed poles work best for trails with sharp corners, and help a little to keep the sled from rolling on side hills. But coming down a really steep slope on Mt. Hood, the sled would swing around to one side or the other using crossed poles. The sled would then turn over UPHILL and stop.

My arrangement allows you to attach both poles to the center of your back. I switched to this arrangement and the sled stayed behind me coming down Mt. Hood from then on. You can also turn and look behind you without affecting the sled. Since you can rotate your hips, it's easier to walk (or skate ski). I found that rotating hips while walking smoothed out the motion so the poles didn't hit my back with each step.

So I'm a big fan of poles in the center, except on tight trails with curves. There's a good reason why all trailers have a single hitch point.

[David Lutz]

Just in time, Dr. Pulk!

I'm going to modify my setup so I can switch back and forth between crossed pole and single-point attachment for this weekend's trip.

[Randy Nelson]

Are you always using snowshoes with your pulk Bill? (My next trip I plan on snowshoeing up and skiing down to see how much easier it is to climb with lighweight snowshoes vs heavy AT gear). I wonder if the sliding out with crossed poles is due to the fact that on downhills you are holding the weight of the pulk back vs skiing where there's less holding the weight back. I do make some hard alpine turns to slow when I need to which are pretty sudden but the pulk stays behind me. The crossed poles have worked great for me.

BTW, my fins are deeper mainly because I was too lazy to cut or grind them down further. :)

I was thinking of your single rail idea and that seems like it would be fine for holding the pulk online. But what if you found yourself on an icy trail? Wouldn't the pulk rock back and forth as it rode on the single rail? With your double rails, it would still be stable.

[Bill B]

Good luck, David.

If you're using ropes inside of PVC pipe, I bet you can keep the ropes tight using my strap idea between the 2 ropes after they go through the eye bolts on the sled.

Another idea is to run each rope through the eye bolt and then through the eye bolt on the other side. Tie a taught line hitch so you can tighten the rope. It should take all the slack out of the rope at the sled AND at the belt.

In my first experiments with attaching rope loops to a belt, I simply ran a regular leather belt through the loops. That worked pretty well for the center position. Nylon webbing belts work better if you have one. It's nice if you can figure out a way to pad your back behind the belt, too. Have fun!

[Bill B]

Randy,

I've only used snowshoes, since I don't ski. With crossed poles and coming down a steep hill, turning left makes the sled initially turn right. Stopped on snowshoes, the sled continued to slide down around me to the right.

On skis, I can see how you would outrun the sled before it could slide down around you. I've also noticed that if I run by a tree hole, the sled often doesn't fall into the hole, where it would if I walked slowly.

That said, I think it still might be better to use center attached poles instead of crossed poles when skiing downhill in the open. The crossed poles exaggerate the sled's curving track as you make your turns, like playing "crack the whip."

The bottom of the sled is pretty flexible, particularly in the center. On solid ice, the outside edges of the sled would still contact the ice, so rocking back and forth wouldn't be a problem. The runner is only 1/2" so that's not much flexing.

I was more concerned with the sled being more likely to slide into tree holes with just a center runner. But my video shows that the runners don't prevent the sliding, they just keep it slower and under control. Without runners, the sled accelerated into the tree hole and rolled over every time. A single runner might even make it LESS likely to roll over.

So far, I'm sold on the single, center rear runner. It has 1/2 the drag, still helps with turning and sliding, and might be less likely to roll into tree holes.

[Bill B]

Bob,

The "runners" I'm talking about are just 1/2" aluminum angle. The pulk doesn't ride on them. They just keep the pulk from sliding sideways, especially on ice. They make a huge difference on side slopes.

[David Lutz]

I cobbled together a pulk and took it out for a spin this last weekend.

There is a lot of information available about different ways to build a pulk.

Like all camping/backpacking gear, it seems the desirability of different features really comes down to personal preference. So I decided to start out very basic, figuring that I can always add features later. Plus I'm lazy.

Here's my material list:

Emsco "Family Fun Sled" from Ace Hardware, $42.00

Utility belt from Army Surplus store, $30.00.

Tool belt suspenders from Home Depot, $8.00.

Misc. PVC, "J" and eye bolts, zip ties, cargo line, etc., maybe $40.00.

So just over $100.00 in total.

As I mentioned, I wanted to keep it simple, so I used the easiest method possible to attach the various parts.

I drilled a hole in the ends of four PVC end caps and placed an eyebolt in each and glued them to the ends of two lengths of PVC pipe. This formed the poles.

I placed two eyebolts in existing holes at the front of the sled, then used zip-ties to attach the sled eye bolts to the pole eyebolts.

I also used zip ties to attach plastic "D" rings to the existing holes in the utility belt, one on each hip and one dead center in the back.

I then crossed the poles and attached them to the "D" rings on the hips of the utility belt with…..wait for it…..zip ties.

I placed "J" bolts in existing holes down the length of the sled to take the cargo line and attached the suspenders to the utility belt and that's about it.

This photo shows the poles attached to the center "D" ring. I much preferred having the poles attached one on each hip.

Loaded up.

Under way.

The thing pulled great and was fun to build and use. I especially liked how the suspenders spread the load across my whole upper body.

It pushed me around a bit on the downhills, I think I'll add some sort of guides. Possibly permanent runners along the bottom, maybe something that flips up and down.

I'll also reduce the length of the poles.

[Bill B]

Great job and pictures, David. It looks like you'll be tweaking your pulk sled for the rest of the season :)

I also tried out the Emsco Beast sled and I like it. I installed a single, 32" 1/2×3/4" aluminum angle in the back center using 5 #10 machine screws with 1" fender washers and nylon lock nuts. I cut the front and back of the runner at a 45 degree angle and filed it down a little. After tightening the bolts, you can break them off by clamping a vice grip on the bolt right at the nut and wiggling back and forth (fore and aft).

I tied a mini-tripod to the center back of my belt and took some video looking back at the sled in action. You have to be a hard core pulk sledder to watch the whole thing, but it looks like you might qualify;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB75d6i0btg

On my blog, I have a link to Optics Planet, which sells a great belt pad for $17 (free shipping if you buy 2). This was the best addition to my pulk gear so far.

http://drpulk.blogspot.com/

[Bill B]

It looks like REI will have the Paris Expedition sled again soon. It says you can backorder it, and it will be available in stores (it said unavailable last week). Here's the link: http://www.rei.com/product/609482

Although the Beast worked fine, I still prefer the Paris Expedition if you can get it. The plastic on the Paris sled is harder and less prone to scratching and abrasions. The Beast is heavier because of the thicker plastic and it is 6" longer. The extra 6" on the Beast isn't very usable, since the front of the sled slopes up gradually so you can't have heavy cargo all the way to the front.

The bottom of the Beast sled doesn't have a very good spot for 2 runners, so I put one runner 32 inches long in the rear center which worked nicely. I think this would also work with the Paris sled. The bottom of the Beast does look like it will track better in deep snow than the Paris. Finally, the quality of the Beast casting was pretty poor on the sled I got. There are lots of irregularities, lumps and bumps. They don't effect the performance though, as far as I could tell.

[David Goodyear]

The above mentioned sleds will work fine for open trails and road walking, but you will be in a world of hurt, if you decide to take them off trail or through some challenging bush walking. (as I learned the hard way)

I watched all of the videos and could see the drag and snag problems of the down-turned lip of the beast and the side-protruding lip of the expedition. There are many ways to buid a pulk, depending on the conditions you expect to encounter.

If you prefer a challenging walk through the woods, pm me and I will share some ideas for a bush worthy sled, as I don't wish to hijack this thread.

Dave

[Chad Miller]

Personally I too find the Jet Sled Jr. and the Paris Expedition Sled to have too square of a front that constantly gets hung up on brush and trees. When using a pulk on tighter trails (SHT for example) I think the rounded front Paris Glad a Boggin would be a good sled.

One thing to add:

If you're looking to use a pulk sled on any type of hiking trail that runs through forest I would strongly suggest you get a sled no wider than 20 inches, preferably 18 inches. Sleds wider than 20 inches; especially ones with square fronts; tend to get caught up on any and every tree trunk and brush you will come across.

Now if you're going to use your pulk for C.C. skiing or open mountain travel then the wider Paris Expedition and Jet Sled Jr. will work great.

[Jason Klass]

Bill, you are right. I just ordered a Paris Expedition sled from REI. It's on backorder but I expect to have it in about 3 weeks.

Also, to clarify: I know exactly what type of hiking I'm using this for and it is NOT bushwhacking so I don't have any problem with it hanging up on tight trails.

[David Goodyear]

:)

[Bill B]

Thanks to Jason, Chad and David for your comments about sleds that go through brush better.

You may want to watch the unedited video that I used for my "Design" video on YouTube. Take a look at the first video (Fawn Lake) in this album:

http://vimeo.com/album/6327

I also have videos of my earlier designs. The "C.J. Way" video shows my sled back in the PVC pipe and eye bolt days.

I'm not sure that any sled will work very well off trail through thick brush. In Oregon I take sleds way off trail a lot, but most of the brush and downed trees are covered by snow, which can be over 10 feet deep.

My friend on the Fawn Lake trip did pass too close to a downed tree branch at full speed. He caught the branch between the pole and the sled. It stopped him cold and he fell over, but he wasn't hurt, and the rope attachments and sled weren't damaged. Unfortunately, he wasn't interested in doing it again for the video. :)

The biggest problem I've had with sleds is getting them to follow you around corners on tight trails, sliding down side hills, and rolling over. Crossed poles and aluminum angle runners (or runner) help prevent these problems. Also, a wider, longer sled is best to prevent rolling since you can keep the load lower in the sled.

In a lot of my videos, I'm following a narrow, broken trail that's not wide enough for the sled. It may look like the sled is dragging a lot, but it's not. The side lip of the sled slides easily against the edge of the packed snow. Frequently, the other side rides up on top of the snow. The only "problem" is that the lip scoops snow into the sled. This isn't a big deal with the Paris sled because I pack it so there's no room for snow to accumulate.

On my last trip, I was really impressed with how well the 5.5 foot Beast went around corners with the crossed poles. It handled a 90 degree sharp turn with ease. On the video, the camera on my back turns with me, so the sled was out of the frame during the turn.

[Randy Nelson]

I disagree about the comments about only using the Paris sled in open terrain. I use it on forested trails (I'm in the Rockies) and don't have any problem with it hitting anything. It follows right behind me even when skiing fast downhill (I put fins on for downhill). I find that if I don't walk into a tree, it won't either. :) Bushwacking may be another story but I haven't done that so far. But if I did, I'd generally seek openings rather than plowing through the bush.

Great pulk David!

[Chad Miller]

I'm glad that your sled works for you on your ski trails Randy. Diffrent width sleds for diffrent hikes / trails. ;)

[Randy Nelson]

Thanks! But just to be clear, they are hiking trails covered in snow that we backcountry ski and snowshoe on. I'm not sure what constitutes a ski trail outside of some kind of groomed runs. But you're right. Whatever works best for each person and their application.

[Chad Miller]

Yeah where I tend to hike (Superior Hiking Trail) is cleared to about 18" on the ground. The trail itself has a great deal of steep, but short up and downs with many sharp turns (steep and sharp enough that you can't ski on it).

[David Goodyear]

Chad,

That's some tough hiking for pulling a sled.
Huh, if you go with a more narrow sled, it will be prone to roll-overs. I may have to ponder this a while…..

Here are some of my thoughts. If you could heat bend the front so that it had more of a point, like a snow plow that breaks in the middle. You may need this to be both from the side to side and top to bottom. That way when you encounter a snag, you can push through instead of banging straight into it.

Move your trace attachements from the top to 1 inch in front and 1 inch down from the frtont of the sled.

shorten the sled for tight turns and the up and downs.

Shorten the traces to less than 6 ft for greater control and a tighter turn radius.

Or, skip the trails and make your own.

Have fun,

Dave

[Chad Miller]

Thanks for the tips Dave!

I've found when using a narrower sled (20"or so) you'll have to pack your sled to keep the gear low. Also when using a narrower sled with snowshowes the sled tends to track in the snowshoe tracks rather well. I don't know how well the narrower sled would work when c.c. skiing as I'd think you'd want the wider Paris style sleds for that.

As for pole length I personally like a length of 54 inches in order to help make tighter turns.

[Gary Rath]

This was an informative topic to read.
I just finished my own pulk sled and made some changes to fit my needs.
I tried to come up with some new ideas and Im pretty happy with the results so far.
I did go with the Jet Sled Jr. and I don't think it will give me any issues where I go.
I chose it because of its good reviews for going over things and durability.

Here is also a short video on some stuff I did to it.
Would love your opinions and ideas.

[David Goodyear]

Garry,

Nice sled. I like the integrated cover. This will keep out the snow and the nasties and wont blow away in the wind. The only issue I've seen with the ski-pulk type attachements, is that they can catch on brush and fall off.(the little retaining pin deally whop) Just carry a spare and you should be fime. That sled is heavy duty and should last a few years.

Dave

[Gary Rath]

I could add the wire that attaches them to the pulk just in case I guess.
But the pins I found have pretty good overlap and I find them a pain to remove sometimes. That and the rubber washer/spacers in the brackets hold them a bit better as well.

[David Goodyear]

I like the rubber washer idea. It's funny. We are planning to go on a big pulk expedition in January with 12 others and my friend and I just went over our pulk and harness modifications over lunch this past Tuesday. I guess you could call it lack of snow fever.

One other thing we do is that we unroll our foam sleeping pads and place them on top of our gear – in a loose accordion style- before putting the cover on top. This does two things – 1. protects the gear while not curling up. 2. gives us a comfy place to sit – with snowshoes on while we eat our lunch (on top the pulk that is) Looks like you have plenty of room to bring whatever you need.

Enjoy,

Dave

Edit to add – It looks like you trace attachments are riveted on. you might want to bolt these on with a bit of strapping on the inside. This will be your most stressed jount.

[Gary Rath]

Yeah i'm dying to get out as soon as I can.
I mainly added the rubber washers in so when I turned it made the brackets hit on
the nut not on the ball joints knuckle. Seamed like a safer route.
I did glue them in place so I didn't lose though's

Another thought I had is to make other accessories for where I put the camera mount.
Maybe a waterproof bag that can hold things like compass, map, lunch or other things I might want easy access to without having to open the gear up.

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