Sizing up rain gear for loft

[Ike Mouser]

I was wondering how many of you actually size up your rain gear to accomodate a puffy down jacket. Or do you prefer to use synthetic fleeces/vapor barriers(in really cold weather) to avoid this issue for a weight penalty? If possible list your waterproof jacket and your insulation you use underneath it in the frigid temps. I would think stiffness of a jacket(event is stiffer than driducks) would also be a big issue in regards to preventing loft.

[Adam Kramer]

i wear a large triumph anorak over a large patagonia down sweater in shoulder season, but size up to my xl REI summit lake rain jacket over an XL montbell parka when it gets really cold.

[carl becker]

I always get a piece of rain gear large enough to fit over insulation. I use a REI event jacket, Marmot Essence or O2 rain set over a Montbell down inner parka. This will also be a bit big over a wool base layer and shirt when needed.

[Ike Mouser]

on a related note, i was hoping to pickup a rab demand or drillum jacket to wear over a down layer. Im assuming Rabs run long and thin from what i've heard, especially in the shoulder. Does rab stuff EVER go on sale?

[CW]

Drillium and Momentum are both currently on sale @ Prolite

Rab Jackets

[Art …]

I always size up my rain gear to fit comfortably over every other layer I might bring.
Lots of trapped air inside.
My rain gear is essentially my walking/standing tent.

Would you size a tent too small to fit your sleeping bag?

[James holden]

large enough to go over 2 midlayers if needed … not the huge poofy down jackets

in winter my big poofy *syn or down" goes OVER my shell

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

I don't size up for 3 season camping. It's normally just a medium Marmot Essence rain jkt over my medium Montbel UL Down Inner Parka. For normal 3 season hikes the UL Down Inner is sufficient warmth when hiking and I don't have trouble fitting it inside my rain jkt. In the winter I would need a bit more space inside so I might size up then.

[Ike Mouser]

Sometime in the next couple months i would like to buy a rab event jacket, or some other comparable lighter/cheaper event jacket. They are so expensive, i don't want to get the wrong size. I really don't want to buy two and will not, would rather just buy one. I wonder how much heavier a large is than a medium in rab stuff.

[Konrad .]

Ike,
I know I mentioned that the fit is trim, but thats in comparison to super roomy cuts of patagonia and northface. I find that my Rab shells can still fit my TNF thunder down sweater fine, with minimal compression. The TNF thunder is also one of the warmer, more lofty down sweaters on the market (ranked higher than EB's and Patagonia's jackets on Will's state of the market BPL article). I find plenty of room for the sweater in the chest and torso area, but a lil tight in the bicep area. With the sweater under the rab shell, the arms of the shell are wrinkle free, and pretty much maxed out in terms of material. The torso and chest still gave a bit of room. So I def don't think upsizing was necessary in my case. This setup will keep me warm in camp in the low 30's, high 20's. Any lower than that, and I would bring along a down parka that goes over my shell (but that's me personally).

In general, I think their sizing chart runs true to size, with enough margin to take in account a down sweater underneath, such as the's one's i've listed, and also the likes of MB down inners etc. You won't be able to fit a puffy outer layer underneath though (e.g. a TNF nuptse, etc). If your down consists of anything similar to what is mentioned in Will's report, than buying you're regular size shouldnt be an issue. If anything, I think the arms are even longer than what they have listed in their size chart…which to me is a good thing. It's better to have longer arms, with the ability to adjust with a velcro cuff, than have one's that are too short and don't offer coverage.

Also, the event used in Rab jackets isn't all that stiff. My girlfriends Westcomb eVent Mirage, and my Arcteryx shell that uses a 3-layer goretex pro shell are both wayyyy stiffer. I've handled dri-ducks once…and it was a very brief encounter. If my memory serves me correctly, I would like to think that the Rab shells are barely, if at all, stiffer than driducks

Oh also, If i were to do it all over again, i'd get the Rab momentum. The drillium is light, with nice pockets, but I find the roll away hood kind of a b*itch. It's just not as clean as the hoods on their other jackets. Also, I've learned that I only really need is napoleon style chest pockets (map, snacks etc) instead of the deep handwarmer pockets offered with the drillium

[Eric Blumensaadt]

If you want an "all-around" rain parka you'll have to have room for the thickest insulating layer you intend to use (plus the other layers beneath such as heavy long john top and a sweater).

My PacLite parka is large enough for that purpose and long enough too B/C I got a Large, Tall size for more butt coverage. At 5' 10" and 180 lbs. that's the size that works well for me in all situations.

From Oct. 3rd to 13th I'll be on the Lake Tahoe Rim Trail and absolutely needing to layer my parka over my Eddie Bauer Down Sweater. It has already snowed once up there a week ago! So I see your reason for wanting a looser parka. An ounce or two won't hurt and it will give you a much more versatile parka.

If you gan afford eVent go for it. To my mind it's the best option. REI has 2 nice ones but W/O pit zips. For their price you can afford to get a tailor to sew in waterproof pit zips (from Seattle Fabrics, for ex.)and then seam seal them yourself. I've had pit zips sewn into several parkas and jackets over the years.

BTW,carrying synthetic fleece for a thinner insulating layer will actually give you more weight to carry than having one larger size of parka to accomodate either a down or, say Climashield or Thermalite insulated jacket. Fleece is not only relatively heavy but it's bulky when packed.

The only fleece I carry is a 200 weight vest in the high Sierra or Rockies summer trips. But now that I have a new down sweater that vest will stay home. It was not enough last August (2009) near Olancha Peak in a high valley on the PCT when it got down to 16 F. (!!) one morning.

[Richard Nisley]

Ike,

It is generally to your advantage to size a hard shell so the girth is 2 – 3" more than your insulation layer(s). The reason you want to do this has nothing to do with the potential insulation compression; down doesn’t significantly change its insulation value with light compression.

The reason is that when you are inactive, an optimally sized and closed internal air gap, between your insulation and your hard shell, provides about the same insulation value as an extra 1 lb 4 oz 200 weight fleece (.7 clo) or 1.6 oz of extra 800 fill down insulation. The average weight penalty per one size increase in a hard shell (4" average girth increase) is about 1.6 oz for something like a Cabela’s Rainy River Paclite Parka @ $119.

Alternatively you would have to add approximately 1.6 oz in additional 800 fill down to achieve the same warmth without the optimal sizing. Unlike extra down, there is no cost penalty for one size larger hard shell and the warmth/weight ratio is the same as 800 fill down. Unlike down, the air gap will never get wet or take up UL pack space.

To the best of my knowledge the above information has never been published by any source. It is primarily derived from my personal research measurements as apposed to theory.

[Pigeon]

I’m bumping this old thread because of Richard’s very helpful post above.

 

[Pigeon]

I wonder if the ‘optimally sized and closed internal air gap’ Richard mentioned requires a second shell underneath to seal the air (rain coat over puffy), or would fleece suffice? (and should one size up when layering over fleece?)

[Author]

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