tarptent in the winter?

[Chris Mcintosh]

I am looking to buy a new tent and have been mostly considering the tarptent contrail. I hike mostly in the smoky mountains but for august-september, i will be headin out to nome, alaska. Will this tent be completely out of its element out there?? I plan on getting a nice warm sleeping bag and i already have an sleeping pad too. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[EndoftheTrail]

Alaska in summer is probably OK — unless it's the high humidity type. I would not use a tarptent for winter.

[Travis Leanna]

I use a Double Rainbow in winter, but in milder locations and conditions. Though I've not been there, I wouldn't take a tarptent to Alaska in winter.

If heavy snow/storm/winds are in the forecast, I'll take a dedicated 4-season tent. If the forecast is somewhere between nice and a gentle falling of up to a few inches of snow, then I have no problem taking the DR.

There are some threads here with pictures of Tarptents in snow, and they hold up surprisingly well to a snow load. However, the Contrail has a large flat expanse that will accumulate snow easily. The Contrail is probably not your best design for winter conditions, nor was it meant to be.

Basically it comes down to comfort. Tarptents are drafty by design, and some people do not like that for winter. Others don't mind it. Again, as long as a rough winter storm is nowhere in the forecast, I'll take the DR any day of the year.

For a couple more ounces, the Moment is practically a 4-season tent.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

TarpTent has the Scarp 1 double wall 4-season tent which I'd recommend. I'm planning to buy a Scarp 2 for winter.

BUT… as a former Contrail owner and present Moment owner I can say those tents are NOT suited for winter. They have excellent lower perimeter netting venting which cannot be blocked off for winter.

My Moment, at 11,200 ft at Arapaho Pass in the Indian Peaks Range of Colorado was much too breezy in high winds that gusted up to around 45 mph.! Despite laying clothes and my pack on the floor vents and building low walls of snow on the windward side it was STILL too breezy inside even after I has also closed off both end vents and the windward roof vent.

Eric

[Kari Post]

I have the Scarp 2, which I bought thinking it would be the perfect all weather use lightweight shelter. I have to say I think these tents are a bit mis-marketed, as I wouldn't really consider it 4 season worthy. I purchased all of the add-ons for the tent, including both inners and the optional crossing poles with hopes of using it in all types of conditions.

I used the Scarp 2 for a 4000 mile bike tour across the US, probably giving it 70-80 days of use during that time. It was used at night during days where the heat index topped out at 115 degrees (so low 90s and humid at night), days when we woke up to frost outside and condensed on the tent in the morning in Colorado, and weeks of nonstop lightning storms in Missouri and Kansas.

The Scarp 2 is pretty miserable in wind. Light breezes make the tent flutter and once the wind is 20-30mph, its really shaking. Above that, the tent flattens. In one storm in Kansas, we literally had to hold the tent down while breaking it down and then just hunker next to a building for shelter, and this was with the optional crossing poles that are supposed to make it wind and snow worthy. I also find it quite difficult to get the pitch just right, with the fly nice and tight. It's easy to get set up quick, and the geometry of the tent actually makes it shed rain pretty well even when you pitch it really poorly. I've never had it leak through, but I wouldn't really expect it to do well with any more than a real light load of snow (maybe a couple of inches of powder).

I've winter camped in the REI Quarterdome T3 and I feel that tent, which is marketed as a 3 season tent, does a much better job in winter conditions than the Scarp 2, although I admit I never camped in the T3 in high winds.

I don't dislike the Scarp 2, I just don't feel that it is an adequate 4 season shelter at all. Inside, I certainly don't feel secure when the wind picks up, and for me that's a necessity in a winter tent.

[Rog Tallbloke]

In the UK, a four season tent is a thing that has a snow valance round the bottom edge of the fly you can put rocks on.

Mine is a generous size for 2 and winter kit and weighs around 7 pounds.

[Robert Blean]

Check out this recent thread. It was about tents for arctic canoeing, but the underlying requirement was strong 4-season tents.

One of the things that came up was tunnel vs. dome tents. If you are expecting high snow loads, you might want to weight the dome side a bit more than the summer discussion did.

— MV

[Franco Darioli]

I would like to address some of Kari's comments.
Set up .
I just bought a wide angle lens for my camcorder so shot a quick clip with it when I came home late this afternoon. This is take 2 , I had some of the grosgrain tangled up in the first one. After take two it was dinner time.
Now this is not a speed attempt, just a demo of how it can be set up with a bit of practice. So far I probably have set up the Scarp a dozen times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWE0gx7rSXU

As for winter worthy, I leave it to some comments from Chris Townsend, he has more experience with that then most .
This is taken from : A decade of backpacking gear
http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2010/01/decade-of-backpacking-gear.html

"Out of the hundreds of items tried each year there are usually a few I really like and continue using after the test is over. Here are those items that impressed me, year by year, during the 2000s."

And for 2009 :

And one I definitely will be is the TarpTent Scarp 1, the first tent that has challenged the Akto in my affections, especially for winter and snow due to the optional crossover poles and extra room.
Note that Chris has the first not the current (2010) version.
Franco
[email protected]

[Pedro Arvy]

Kari's post mentions poor performance under high wind and Chris Townsend does not address testing under high wind in the article http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2010/01/decade-of-backpacking-gear.html

[Rog Tallbloke]

He doesn't address the Scarp 2 either, he's got a scarp 1.

By the way Franco, that is the cheesiest elevator music I've ever heard, get some rock!

[Chris Townsend]

Just to clarify I have used the Scarp 1 extensively. I have not used the Scarp 2. The Scarp 1 has good wind resistance when used with just the single hoop and excellent wind resistance with the crossover poles. I used the Scarp 1 without the crossover poles on the TGO Challenge across the Scottish Highlands last year, during which there was much stormy weather, and it performed well. That was the original Scarp 1 with the raised flysheet. I am currently trying the lower flysheet, which is even better as it means the inner doors need to be closed less often.

Of course no lightweight single hoop tent will cope with high winds as well as a heavy mountaineering tent but I've found the Scarp 1 handles high winds better than most similar tents.

[Kari Post]

Franco, thanks for the video. After seeing the smaller dimensions of the Scarp 1, I think the issue I'm having is getting the tension right from corner to corner with the stays and rigging that center guyline just right when I'm doing the setup myself. Because the setup is so different from typical not UL tents my friends need to see it done once or twice to be able to help. My friend Dave, who rode across country with me, did get it down pretty well and was able to rig it very nicely with the crossing poles.

I still have to say that this tent was a joke in some of the Kansas winds last summer, even when pitched well with the crossing poles. I haven't used it in real winter conditions (coldest was a calm 20 degree night in March in New Jersey) though and have yet to use the four season inner. It might be adequate below treeline in many places, as a lot of areas won't get wind of the type you get in Kansas during summer. I guess you need to consider what conditions you plan to use the tent in. For a "one tent does it all" the Scarp 2 really isn't bad, although it doesn't exactly do it ALL either. If you plan on being out in harsh conditions (blizzards with high winds, in storms with lots of heavy, wet snow, or camping above treeline) or for extended durations where you might come across these conditions with no way to avoid them I might consider something else.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

Kari, you and all other Scarp 2 owners we know about are going to get an offer to upgrade your fly at cost to the 2010 version as soon as we get production really rolling over the next couple of weeks. The new one is noticeably stiffer/stouter with a fly edge that drops to just above ground all the way around. Not sure how you staked your Scarp 2 and whether or not you used the arch sleeve pullouts but please contact me off-line for assistance/more information.

-H

[Rog Tallbloke]

A manufacturer responsive to customer feedback.

Top marks.

[Dont Wantto]

This responsiveness (among other reasons) is why I'm leaning towards a Tarptent, even though I'm very new to UL Backpacking. (Presently use a 6 lb bomber for my girlfriend and I.)

But I can't for the life of me decide between these 3 (classes of) tents:

1. TT Scarp 2

2. Big Agnes Copper Spur or any ~ 4 lb tent like the MSR Hubba Hubba

3. TT Double Rainbow

My reasoning:
A. If the Scarp 2 is sturdy enough for summer camping WITHOUT the cross poles in the WA Cascades, CO rockies and CA Sierras, above or at tree line, I would definitely get the Scarp 2. By sturdy enough, I mean my girlfriend will not be freaked out if we are unexpectedly hit by strong winds in the Cascades.

B. If the Scarp 2 NEEDS the cross poles to get the above stability in unexpected winds / small storms, that puts its weight at 4 lbs 4 oz.. what then would set the Scarp 2 apart from the Big Agnes Copper Spur (3 lb 13 oz) or the MSR Hubba Hubba, Sierra Design tents etc etc? Those are cheaper and about the same weight.. Is the Scarp 2's material more durable than the Copper Spur's material?

C. If the Scarp 2 cannot be relied upon for inclement weather, should I go with the lighter Double Rainbow (and buy a stronger winter tent later)? Is it safe to take it on 3 season trips when the forecast might include a rain shower or two? Can it deal with unexpected strong winds?

[Rakesh Malik]

"A manufacturer responsive to customer feedback."

After I read the Scarp2 review here, and saw the list of modifications Henry'd made for the 2010 Scarp1, it became obvious that he was paying attention to customer feedback. That was what made me decide to get one.

It's served me well so far… on a while entire THREE NIGHTS! (I need to get out more.)

The first night was… breezy. Nothing like the gale I faced in the Enchantments over the summer, but still pretty strong, and the Scarp handled it with aplomb (I used the crossing poles). I didn't have any problems with flapping and that sort of thing.

[Dont Wantto]

Must add, the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 is 3 lb 13 oz without a footprint.. some people on this forum seem to think the floor is crazy thin (1200 mm waterproofing?) and a footprint would be needed.

Don't think a footprint is suggested for the heavier ones like MSR Hubba Hubba etc though..
.

[Bryce]

Not sure what Alaska will throw at you during your trip, but the Adirondacks is usually down there in terms of lows on any given day in the 48 states:

Cold Places List

My 2-person (not enough room for my winter gear, and liveable space for 1-person) Ray-Way tarp tent has done well w/ 3 sides pitched to the ground and then a snow/ice wall in front of the opening during our yearly February trips:

[Lynn Tramper]

"Is it safe to take it on 3 season trips when the forecast might include a rain shower or two? Can it deal with unexpected strong winds?"

It is excellent in showers rain. It is also very wind worthy if pitched correctly. By correctly, I mean you need to cross-stake the windward vestibule, and use two trekking poles to prop up the centre of the long arch pole. It also helps if you dig a small hole at each end of the pole to lower the whole fly a smidgen. Ours has survived a couple of gales when pitched like this. It also sheds snow fairly well, but spindrift can still blow in. I haven't used the Scarp 2.

[Travis Leanna]

Lynn,
You may have a system of pitching the DR that works well for you, but in another thread about the DR in the wind, Henry has advised against cross-staking the vestibule. Just to play devil's advocate : )

The two trekking poles help tremendously when used to prop up the center strut, and you can further the stability by using internal guylines. On the inside of the tent there are clips halfway up the center ridge, one on each side. Tie them together quite tautly, and that will also help stabilize the tarptent, especially from downward gusts. It also provides an internal clothesline!

[Travis Leanna]

Oh, and I've had the DR on an exposed ridge in the Superstition mountains in AZ. I estimate 40-50 mph winds–but that's purely a guess. However, winds were strong enough to pull stakes out of the ground! I wish I had brought my Groundhog stakes at that point…

The trekking poles really helped stability. I was not the least worried about shelter failure at any point. However, it was a bit breezy inside! The 2010 version helps alleviate this with clip-up ends on the bathtub floor. Again, I'd take any of the Tarptents with an arch pole in any weather except harsh winter storms, and cyclone-type conditions. I have no experience above treeline, so I can't comment there.

[Lynn Tramper]

"Henry has advised against cross-staking the vestibule. Just to play devil's advocate : )"

Yeah, I know. I politely disagree. There is too much slack in the 'standard' pitch for high winds, plus cross-staking gets the windward vestibule right down to ground level to stop the gale from blowing into the tent. It also takes the strain off the windward vestibule zipper, which is a weak spot in severe winds. What works on paper (for engineers) doesn't always work out in the real world…it would be nice if the vestibule could be redesigned to get the slack out of the pitch while allowing a lower (ground level) pitch hint hint hint. However, the 'standard pitch works well in most conditions, and gives a little more room under the vestibule while making it easier to exit on that side, plus improved ventilation. With a cross-staked vestibule you limit yourself to one usable (leeward) entrance.

[Travis Leanna]

Lynn,
Now I'm curious….Do you use both guyout points on the vestibule? Midway up the vestibule as well as at the very bottom? I've got both guyout loops rigged to a single guyline with a tensioner. It makes for an easy adjusting, taut vestibule. I think I'm going to try cross-staking a vestibule just for fun…..

[Timothy Sexton]

Please do not by the contrail. I traveled with a woman for a week on the pct and we received heavy winds. The woman with the contrail had her tent collapse from the wind every night. Winds 40-55mph every night. The other people I was traveling with had no problem with their tents which were the Big Agnus Fly Creek Ul, the ZPACKS cuben fiber Hexamid, and the BPL solo cuben fiber tarp. I own a lot of tents and have never had a problem with a tent collapsing because of high winds and after pitching the contrail it collapsed not even 10 min. later. Do not buy the Contrail it does not like strong winds, bad for a thru hike.

[Steven McAllister]

"I traveled with a woman for a week"

I don't own a Contrail, but I would think it very fit for thru-hikes. I have heard of many happy backpackers using em.

I do understand that you have to be good at pitching them. In fact I'd bet that it is a very wind resistant design.

The only reason I could think of them not working well is if they are not well staked, but this is true with any shelter.

Or am I missing something?

Did she have stakes come out?

[Author]

Posts