Kmart Grease Pot tips and mods?

[Lance M]

Here are a few pictures of a Snow Peak titanium bowl with a K-Mart grease pot. Bowl came from REI and weighs 1.6 oz. This setup works good for two people.

[Michael Meiser]

@ Lance Marshall (Lancem)

I like the titanium bowl… not going to rush out and buy one just yet though.

The thought has occured to me that maybe I could make a bowl that suits my needs by making a reflectix cozy for the kmart pot and then lining it with a ziplock freezer bag draped over the sides.

It's not after all much different then the whole concept of freezer bag cooking and you could choose to wash and reuse it or chuck it for a new one (i.e. that your food is packed in) as you felt the need.

BTW Lance, Do you still have the screen for that thing. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about with using the screen instead of the lid.

If you do still have the screen, do me a favor and put a piece of aluminum over the pot and then push it into the pot with the screen so it forms a nice airtight lid. (don't worry it will rise as necissary for pressure)

Then ditch your lid and pot grabber and try using it over the stove with a simple hot pad or pack towel.

Because the lid is recessed you should easily be able to grab it without taking the lid off. The lid also protects your thumbs from being burned by the water. What's more in playing with it I can still pour with the lid on. Works pretty well in fact.

You could actually remove the foil from one corner and thereby have a nice strainer lid.

This solution weighs about .2 oz less then the original lid.

If you like you CAN use the pot grabber… and once again you don't have to take off the lid to use the pot grabber. However ditching the pot grabber is the single best thing about the solution in my opinion.

P.S. If you do decide to keep using the original lid.. use some nice stiff cord to put a big old loop handle on the top. Works great, weighs nothing. Can even use it with gloves on.

Anyway, thanks, just hoping someone will try my screen lid idea and verify I'm not a UL nutcase. :)

[Michael Meiser]

@ Lance Marshall (Lancem)

one last thing. Have you tried the beer can side jets?

I have a couple made out of budweiser cans.

Solid, hot, efficient.

One will boil two cups of water in the kmart pot in 2 minutes and 30 seconds, but only runs for 6 minutes on an ounce of fuel. I guess that's not to inefficient come to think of it… it implies it'll boil using only a half oz or less.

However my other one takes a nice six minutes and I think it uses only about .25oz to .3oz.

The best part is they don't need pot stands and since they're very short you can reduce the height of your windscreen to just a few inches meaning it's not only lighter but the whole setup catches less wind.

[Lance M]

mm:

Thanks for your 'critique'. FWIW, here's an explaination of the choices I've made.

I consciously chose to use the original lid for a number of reasons. I like its durability. I like that the lid is one piece and cleans easily. I've tried various knobs, tabs, loops, and wires on top and prefer none. I like how it protects the pot and contents when stored. I like the way the compact, smooth 'package' stores in my pack. I don't mind the .2 oz penalty.

I like the metal bowl for a second person because it fits well, its durable, I can use it for cooking, it cleans and dries easily and can be sterilized on the stove.

I like the stability of a pot stand. A cone shaped stand/windscreen like the TD Caldera has the ultimate stability. Putting a pot directly on a pop/beer can stove has the least. I've knocked over a few meals and prefer a little more stability. I chose a simple, lightweight wire stand as a compromise. I also prefer a stove that doesn't require a warm-up period before putting a pot over it.

Most of the time, I'll accept the weight penalty of the pot grabber. I have better luck removing the lid from the pot or the pot from the fire one handed with the grabber than with a gloved hand. It's easier for me to reach inside the windscreen with the grabber than my gloved hands. Less chance of scalding a finger or scorching a glove. As a kit for two, it's still pretty light.

My choices will change over time, but for today, I'm satisfied.

Just my 2 cents,
-Lance

[Javan Dempsey]

Lance, I too refuse to give up the pot lifter, especially since I cart a light Al fry pan with me most trips..

I have the same pot lifter as you, but refused to accept the stock weight. Here's a photo, and it could still be trimmed a bit more.

You can drill out the whole center of the top and bottom handle, it's the bent sides that support the load. You can also drill some small holes in the side walls.. Just do a bit at a time.

Mine doesn't show any loss of lift ability (can still pickup a big pan with a couple L of water), and I dropped 8 or 10g off the weight so far, it's hovering right at 1oz.

[Michael Meiser]

@Lance Marshall (Lancem)

Thanks for entertaining my suggestions and questions with a response.

Much respect to your reasoning particularly on the pot stand vs. beer can stove. excellent stability and of course can easily be made to pack nicely in the pot. I may end up making one if not a DIY cone.

I do like the bowl btw. Best solution I've yet seen.

Am going to try the Ziploc in a grease pot kozy idea for a bowl right now and see how well it works. If it does work it's a technique I can use with any pot kit, at least until I find / buy a better bowl.

[Michael Meiser]

@Javan Dempsey (jdempsey)

Nice pan. I like your mods. (handle removal and pot grabber adaptation)

Is that the one egg wonder? (looks larger) Do you have the weight and diameter?

Regarding the pot lifter:

I'd certainly use one if I could find a nice frying pan.

My MSR one weighs about 1.6 oz stock. Not terrible I guess.

Can't find the weight on the aluminum Coughlans pot holder.

There seem to be some lighter designs that weigh an oz: http://www.campsaver.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=msr0061

Not sure if you could shave more weight off that.

[Lance M]

Here's a template for making a cone windscreen/pot stand for the Kmart Grease Pot. Designed for 1-1/2" tall Pepsi can stove plus 1" space between stove and pot.

More info and pictures here. Scroll down if necessary.

Free PDF template here.

-Lance

[Javan Dempsey]

Yeah, that's an 8" diameter fry pan I got from "The Dollar General" store.. $5. Weight:

5.9oz

Although another guy on the forums found one at walmart, mainstays brand, that was an oz lighter for the same size. Which puts it about the same weight as a Ti pan with handles.. 1oz more for the pot lifter, which is multi-use.. 1oz penalty for even heating is a fair trade to me.

[Dan Yeruski]

Caveman cook eggs…….eat'um quick

The photos give a good idea of how it was done. Alum foil on the strainer sprayed with pam olive oil, 1/2 cup water in pot, heat and we got eggs done just right………….
I peeled the aluminum foil up and slid the eggs right onto the plate, no hang-ups….sweet I'm getting attached to my Zmart kit. ;_0(conical windscreen, modified StarLyte stove and the grease pot)sonsistant at boiling 2 cups with 1/2 ounce denatured)

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[Michael Meiser]

This is pretty awesome. Just as long as the aluminum foil doesn't become a mess and can be reused.

One of the things I love about winter touring is that you can take virtually anything.

It just occured to me today I could put some frozen concentrate OJ in a ziploc and have fresh OJ for breakfast every morning.

P.S. so far I'm really liking this Ziploc / Reflectix cozy bowl idea. Awesome. Ultra Light. and will work with ANY size pot / cook kit.

I may never need to hunt for the right size bowl for a pot kit ever again.

[Javan Dempsey]

If you can find fresh farm eggs that haven't been refrigerated yet, you can cart them along in summer also. I mean, don't leave them sitting in the sun, but otherwise, they'll be fine for quite a while.

[Dan Yeruski]

jdempsey, why does refrigerating make them not good for taking on the trail for an extended amount of time?

[Javan Dempsey]

Honestly, I don't know.

All i know is, just like mayonnaise that's been refrigerated, it's screwed afterwords. It's one of those old-timey things. When I was growing up, we never put the eggs in the fridge, just left them out, because we got them from the oldsters that lived behind us that had chickens.. That's country wisdom. :p

Just because I don't know the reason doesn't mean I'm wrong.!

Anyway, I haven't gotten salmonella yet, then again, you already know my threshold for danger don't you Dan? :p

[Dan Yeruski]

You've got a high threshold for danger for sure. You could eat salmonella and still feel good the next day, growing up behind the oldsters gave you imunity:p

[Franco Darioli]

"When I was growing up, we never put the eggs in the fridge, just left them out"
Same here, we had our own chooks. The reason is that the natural protective coating is washed off on the supermarket kind.
Some solutions here :

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Henley-s-20th-Century-Formulas-Recipes-Processes-Vol2/The-Preservation-of-Eggs.html
Franco

[A Wilson]

Eggs are never refrigerated in European supermarkets. They also often have dried goo and feathers sticking to them.

[Dan Yeruski]

Franco, the link to The Preservation of Eggs was an interesting read, thank you…..

Farm fresh with feathers are my first choice if available.

Keep the strainer with the pot, I'm sure I'll find that it's easy to cook fish also. the use of Non-stick aluminum foil will make life easier also. I eat right out of the pot when I'm not freezer baggin it. The pot holds 4 cups, 2 for the bag, 2 for the mug. Pour 2 cups into the bag, 2 cups into mug, return bag-o-food to hot pot. Pot will support bag-o-food while eating.

[d k]

I just tried my own variation on Lance's template for the grease pot (from an earlier post by him in this thread). I used fewer holes, since it looks like the original Caldera cones don't have quite as much ventilation as his. I made the cone from OSH aluminum flashing, and made a quick, rough copy of the 12-10 stove from a potted meat type can, a V8 5.5 oz can, and a piece of flashing for the bottom (not attached yet, so is some air leakage there).

The stove copy has 12 size 7/32" holes halfway up the outer can (1 3/8" high); the V8 can (1 1/8" high) has 10 holes 1/8" from the upper rim.

On top of my stainless steel stove in my kitchen, using tap water (67 F), with a tablespoon full of alcohol, I was able to boil 2 cups of water in just under 6 minutes, and the boil lasted just about one more minute before the flame burned out. However, the outer can turned from gold to brown from the heat (the plastic lining burned off) and the cone turned slightly brownish as well about midway up the sides, on both the inside and the outside.

Does this mean that things are getting too hot? Or is this normal for aluminum this thin. I've never had a stove turn this color before, but I'm wondering if it's because it was a lined can. Or maybe the fact that the outer can isn't sealed to the bottom affects things?

I realize I can (and probably should) just buy a 12/10 stove from Traildesigns, but I just wanted something to try out the cone with. I'm pleased with the boil time for the amount of alcohol, but not happy about the possibility of excessive heat shortening the system's lifespan.

Any comment/feedback on any of the points I raised (or any other points you can think of) is welcome.

Thanks,
Debbie

[Kevin Beeden]

The aluminium flashing usually has a lacquer coating, and it's this that discolours. I've seen it on quite a few clones made by US-based users of my clone template design script.

It may be that this discolouration shows that heat is being wasted in burning the lacquer, rather than heating the pan contents. I've seen one clone example where the foil actually melted. Have a look at some of the photos on this thread, especially Sweeper's. On the next page in that link, you'll find a Grease Pot clone (a Flissure version that fits inside the pot) by Katusuya.

Suitable burners are also discussed in that thread; I use a red bull, vapour-chamber, open-cup type (aka Trangia-style) with a conic inner wall, and jet holes inside the dimple ring, which makes a nice, tight flame cone that concentrates at the centre of a pan, rather than spreading up the sides. A red bull chimney burner is also very good (see ZenStoves), and very simple to make. Too fierce a burner just results in wasted fuel, with very hot gas coming out of the upper vents.

[d k]

Thanks, Kevin.

Another thing I noticed: the stove was periodically "burping" (gave a little flash inside the cone, where I assume flames were coming out the side holes) during the burn. I don't know if that has to do with the construction (you can see the pieces of my stove); not having seen a 12/10 stove in person, I don't know how high up the inner can goes. It didn't seem like too much heat was being wasted, at least from how soon and how long it boiled on relatively little fuel.

[Tim Zen]

n/c

[d k]

Timothy –

What kind of stove did you use with your cone? Are you using the same stove now with the cylindrical setup?

dk

[Tim Zen]

It was the one you make using Heineken beer cans.
I made a cone for to hold an aluminum coffee pot
It is for two people. It works, but too much for one.

I should make the center burner stove, but I have lost interest in making another stove.

[Kevin Beeden]

> Another thing I noticed: the stove was periodically "burping"

I've seen this with a number of different alcohol stove designs. My suspicion is that it's 'bumping'; a phenomemon of boiling liquids, where the water becomes superheated, and then a bubble of steam suddenly appears within the liquid, causing a burst of vapour to be released.

You may remember from school chemistry lessons putting 'anti-bumping granules' in flasks when doing any heated liquid experiments; they provide a lot of nucleation sites that allow bubbles to form very easily, thus preventing the sudden burst of bubbles. Very smooth-surfaced containers (such as lacquered drinks cans) have no natural bubble nucleation sites, so bumping can occur. In some burners, I've put in a small tuft of mineral or glass wool to add nucleation sites.

I've also seen vapour-chamber burners 'breathing', where I've seen the level of fuel in the reservoir oscillating, as fuel is sucked in and out of the vapour chamber.

The Red Bull conic wall and chimney burners are discussed and illustrated in this page of the OM clone thread. My OM article on making burners may give useful tips for building drinks can burners.

The right-hand of your two burners in the earlier picture isn't quite the same as a 12-10 burner, as the 12-10 burner has an inner wall; the name comes from the number of holes in each wall: 12 holes on the outside, 10 holes on the inside.

IME, the left-hand, vented, open-cup burner is too big for that clone/pot, and will run too hot; similar to the one d3lphi used when he melted his clone… Time to boil 500ml of water and how much fuel it takes are good indicators of how hot the burner is running. I find 8 minutes and 15ml of fuel is easy to achieve in a test environment. Running any hotter/faster than that tends to be energy inefficient (I have a spreadsheet to calculate fuel efficiency; I generally achieve about 55-60% efficiency). Note that d3lphi took 3'45" and 30ml to boil 414ml.

Have a go at the red bull chimney burner; it's very simple to make*, and is well matched to a clone, IME.

* I drill the centre chimney hole by finding the centre of the dimple with a pair of dividers, and drilling patiently with a 'spade' wood bit (see wiki).

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