A Moment in the snow

[Brett Peugh]

I know there was some interest in using the Moment for more winter activities and I was wondering if anyone has done so yet. Thanks.

[David Ure]

Not sure about use, but Franco has a great pic of the Moment in some wet snow. He will be along shortly.

[adam peterson]

dont know about the moment but i have purchased a scarp1 for winter camping.

[Franco Darioli]

3 moments later…
Hey David
I am 5'7" so you can call me shortly…
Oddly I posted that picture on my thread called "A (TT) Moment in the snow"
All I can tell you is that it was erected on dry ground and got about 10" of snow on top overnight.
The Scarp was designed to be a 4 season tent . The Moment looks like it can handle some snow.
Franco

[David Ure]

That pic still amazes me, at least for the current moment.

Thanks Franco.

[Brett Peugh]

That is just so cool! How did it handle inside it?

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I've camped ON the snow with my Moment but it didn't snow that night. However the wind blew all day and night 'til morning at 30 – 45 mph. The Moment was very stable and did not flap or flutter at all.

I did guy it out at 2 points but I doubt it was necessary. Just didn't want to have to get up in the middle of the night to do it in case the winds got even stronger. (No crossing pole was used.)

[David Ure]

Eric – any issue with blowing snow and the perimeter mesh? Thanks,

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Franco
While the tent was upright, I think it was getting very close to failure.

.
The tent pole has lost its curvature under the red line, and the curvature has got very high under the pink line. Much more snow and I think it might have either buckled under the red line or snapped under the pink line.

The moral of the story is that very long poles are not that strong and you will need to knock the snow off frequently.

Cheers

[Franco Darioli]

Yes, as I pointed out , it was not designed to be a winter tent however to a lot of people 10" of snow overnight is more than they get at any time of the year.
The all point is that for most it will handle out of season snow and should do well with some strong winds as some of the early reports seem to indicate. But lets keep in mind that it is a sub 29oz shelter…
This is what the inside looked like.

Franco

[Brett Peugh]

So, it stayed pretty dry? Can't see a whole lot from the picture.

I wish we could get 10" in a night.

[Brett Peugh]

And while this is a great tent I think people need to check out Joe at Zpacks new tent. Talk about light and full featured.

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

> Much more snow and I think it might have either buckled under the red line or snapped under the pink line.

My 2 cents is that, yes, much more snow would have started to permanently bend the pole but likely not snapped it–no permanent bend on this pole now that snow has come off (which surprised me a bit). A CF pole in the same long arching design may well have snapped but I've done enough snow load testing with these Easton aluminum poles under heavier snow loads to have seen bending but not snapping. A really massive snow dump is probably a different story and whomever was inside would certainly have needed to knock snow off periodically.

>The moral of the story is that very long poles are not that strong and you will need to knock the snow off frequently.

Yes, agreed, although "frequently" might be really be more like "once or twice" during the night in a moderate snowfall. This was a 10"/25cm snowfall in about 7 hours.

Anyone intending to use a Moment in snowfall as pictured (and I don't recommend using it that way) will want to ask us for a 9mm crossing pole. It's about 2 ounces heavier than the standard 8.7mm pole but Easton tells me that it's 30% stiffer and it is noticeably stronger.

-H

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

>So, it stayed pretty dry? Can't see a whole lot from the picture.

Yes, completely dry. No snow into the interior.

-H

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Franco,

I plan to put my Moment's crossing pole INSIDE the tent.

REVISED MOMENT CROSSING POLES:

1. sew small Cordura or light Hypalon pockets at the interior apex of both inverted end Vs to recieve the pole ends
2. shorten the pole with an arrow cutter to the desired length
3. sew & seam seal male/female Velcro strips inside at the three reinforced exterior tie points (to hold the pole in place)

This re-design should have the following benefits:

1. distribute stress to the apex of the triangulated ends, structurally the strongest part of the tent
2. support the tent canopy the entire length of the crossing pole, not just at the 3 exterior tie points
3. reduce weight a bit by cutting off approximately 3 ft. of the crossing pole
4. permit rapid addition of the crossing pole from inside the tent in the event of a sudden storm

I'll leave the exterior tie points on, in the form of loops, as extra guy points should a big windstorm come up. Having ready made Triptease guy cords W/ small hook clips on the loop attatchment ends makes for rapid deployment in a storm.

P.S. As the title indicates, this method can be done to the Scarp series and probably the Hogback as well, with the same benefits. And this is perhaps more important for these double walled tents that likely WILL see a snow load.

Well, whaddya think All?

[Roger Caffin]

That's going to place all the load on the standard centre pole. And the ends of the crossing pole may sag to the ground under load as well. Somehow, I have my reservations.

Cheers

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Roger,

I'd venture that the outwardly stresed arch of an inside crossing pole arrangement will HELP the exterior main pole under load. (I'll cut the crossing pole long enough so it is stressed outward and will account for the inevitable stretching of the silnylon canopy.)

Ain't you a civil engineer? Figger it out on yer computer with a CAD program.

P.S. My only reservation is that the original longitudinal shape of the Moment's canopy is fairly straight and the arch created by an inside crossing pole MAY create wrinkling of the canopy. (Or not)

But even the use of the exterior crossing pole pulls the canopy out of its original shape at the attatchment points with no ill effects.

(Now I HAVE to do this experiment soon. It's driving me nuts to see what it will look like.)

[Henry Shires / Tarptent]

Eric,

Your idea for a mod, though interesting and admirable in its intent, wont work. A pole simply wont flex that way and stay within the confines of the canopy. To get the pole to touch the apex ends and top of the center arch you would have to bend it in the middle or insert some sort of angled joint at which point you would lose mostl of the inherent strength.

-H

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Henry,

Hmmmm, Now that I look at the Moment photo at your site I see what you mean. The necessary "hub" connection would lose the tension created by a single pole.

But I ain't givin' up on this idea yet. However I now have a nagging suspicion it's a non starter.

[Miguel Arboleda]

And while this is a great tent I think people need to check out Joe at Zpacks new tent. Talk about light and full featured.

I just checked it out… nice design! Simple and straight forward… I like the way the angled pole is a natural part of the design. Does remind me of another company's "ultra-secret" shelter.

[Arapiles .]

"And while this is a great tent I think people need to check out Joe at Zpacks new tent. Talk about light and full featured.

I just checked it out… nice design! Simple and straight forward… I like the way the angled pole is a natural part of the design."

Funny, I can't see a tent on his website … any directions you can provide?

[Brett Peugh]

Check out his photos from his CDT trip. Weighs 9oz in cuben with full bug netting. I have a spec sheet on it but I don't think he has realeased it fully to the public yet and I don't want to do it without his permission.

[David Ure]

Um, his design is really a neat minimalist creation but with all due respect – this is not going to survive a snowfall.

[Miguel Arboleda]

David, that's probably true. And it would be awful in a blizzard. But still a neat design. Funny how more and more shelters are moving toward pyramid-type shelters or diamond shaped shelters… I guess that's the natural progression of design…

[P. P.]

<"I guess that's the natural progression of design…>"

Or, regression:

[Author]

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