Need reccomendation for couples tent

[Peter O]

Hey guys. First of all, happy to be apart of a great community. You guys/gals really know your stuff.

I'm looking at getting back into backpacking with my wife along for the adventure. Previous experience is all Boy Scouts. I hiked Philmont back in '01ish. So I'm not completely a n00b, but I sure have been spending some time catching up on the new ways of UL backpacking.

While I will be looking alot of stuff, I'd like to focus on tents and sleeping bags here. Initial trips are going to be the FT(florida trail) and the AT. Don't know if we'll be doing much winter AT hiking and there is no winter on the FT. However it would be nice to get some gear that will at least hold us down to 20-30F.

For a tent, looking at a tarptent. It needs a screen liner and it of course needs to be light. I was reccomended three places:
Six Moon
TarpTent
Gossamer
After initial review I'm a little shocked those tents cost that much for as simple as they are. Which leads me to my first question. How hard is it to make something like a tarptent? Are there plans online somewhere? Most of all, is it worth the savings?
2nd question, I'm not a trekking pole user. Do all tarp tents use trekking poles? Those I assume are not included in the weight specs correct? Should I be a trekking pole user? Are tarptents worth it if I have to back poles too?

On to bags. Thinking about a 2-man quilt. Think this will be pretty efficient on weight. I call her the human furnace so she will probably keep the both of us warm. I've seen RayWays MYO 2-man quilt but it kinda seems like the material he is using is a little outdated. comments? What would you guys recommend doing? I've seen the WLQ and man it sure is nice. Is cuben fiber really worth the cost? When it comes to budget, I'm looking for bang for the buck. I don't support spending another $100 just cut a couple ounces. I'm also not opposed to sewing with a provided kit.

Thanks for any comments anyone can provide.

[Dean F.]

Not all TarpTents use your trekking poles. Just check the website http://www.tarptent.com/ and you'll see several models that don't.

Any truly light tent is going to seem expensive. But if you look at cheap 2-person tents- say, the REI Half-Dome or such- they weigh over 4 pounds.

Big Sky International makes a much lighter double-walled tent that is equivalent to the Half-Dome, but it costs upwards of $400.

There is a sort of point of diminishing returns. You can spend a LOT of money on an uber-light tent. (But still chickenfeed compared to a really good down bag or quilt.) You just have to decide if you want to spend beyond that inflection point.

IMHO the best bang for your buck in down 2-person quilts would be one of the larger Jacks R Better products. http://www.jacksrbetter.com/ Nunatak makes me drool, but they are EXPENSIVE.

[John Roan]

Peter,

You've come to the right place for advice. I was inspired from this site a couple of years ago and have got my base weight (sans food & water) to under 7lbs, including a two person tarp, ground cloth, and quilt (updated two person gear list posted in my profile). While most information is regarding solo gear, there are many of us here who are lucky enough to

As for the tent, our first UL endeavor was a Six Moon Designs Refuge-X. While this is an outstanding 16oz, two person shelter, we found its shortcomings were lack of storm-worthiness and the fact that condensation was a problem. Since we're in the Vegas area with low humidity, I would assume this would be much worse in the east.

We are currently using a Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn tarp and absolutely love it! Tons of space, and storm worthy when pitched correctly, and no condensation. When hiking in bug-country, we use their 3oz bug canopy. I'll tell you that it was easier to ease my wife into the idea of tarp camping slowly, but once we did it a few times with no problems she was totally on board.

As for trecking poles, I am not a big fan, but this community seems to be, so try for yourself. For the SpinnTwinn, I use either available trees or sticks off the ground…and since it's a tarp and not a tarp-tent, the height of the poles isn't a critical.

As for our quilt, we went with a Nunatak custom sized BCB (Back Country Blanket). I've since done some modifications to it, removing the shock cords and velcro, sewing the foot box closed, and adding draft collars to the sides. I've used it into the mid-20's and have stayed warm.

I too have gotten into making my own gear, so if you're up for a challenge, go for it! I've made my own wood burning stove system, and just this weekend made my own 3.35 silnylon backpack. I'll be posting some info on it in the MYOG forum after I've had a chance to get some miles on it. I do suggest figuring out your gear choices before investing in a backpack, unless you plan to make your own, at which point the cost is very low and the experience invaluable.

Good luck on your journey!

[j lan]

Scarp 2!
http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html

[David Ure]

I would go with a double walled shelter with your wife. Copious condensation, wet bag, and angry spouse with a single wall.

[Ross Bleakney]

I agree with Dean, the prices for the tarp tents seem like a bargain to me. These are really well made tents. I don't see how it would be easier to make a single walled tent then it would be to make a double walled tent, so, overall, this seems like a great value. Can you make them yourself? Yes, definitely. These same sites provide plenty of plans for making your own. Often, the plans are for the older versions, so it might not have the same refinements that a new tent has (although some prefer the old style).

Do you need poles? No. Lots of these same tent makers also provide poles that you can use yourself. The poles are pretty cheap and pretty light, so the tarp tent is still a good deal with the provided poles.

My wife and I have a Squall 2 that we like very much. It is an older design than some of the others, but it is still a very good tent, that offers some things the others don't. Like many of the tarp tents, it can be held up with trekking poles, but we usually use the poles we bought from tarptent.

For sleeping, my wife and I use the Feathered Friends "Wide Bag" system. We own a Penguin sleeping bag (http://www.featheredfriends.com/Picasso/Bags/Product/SemiRectangular.html) with a ground sheet (http://www.featheredfriends.com/Picasso/Bed.Acc/Groundsheets.html). This secures the top quilt to the bottom, preventing drafts. The bottom sheet is connected to the sleeping pads, preventing the thing from slipping off the pads. It isn't cheap. Down is expensive stuff and the sleeping pad adds a bit too. However, it is great system, providing lots of warmth for too, with great comfort and less weight than two bags.

Is Cuben Fiber worth it? It depends. For a sleeping bag, it probably adds a lot to the cost as well as the construction complexity (since you can't make the whole thing out of Cuben) while saving a couple ounces. To some, "a couple ounces" means "Yipee! I saved a couple ounces!" while to others it means "just a couple of ounces". Of course, the biggest expense is probably the down. Those feathers aren't cheap (and neither is it easy to work with them). A big, thick, synthetic quilt may be a better bang for your buck.

[James Naphas]

Consider a Tarptent double rainbow. Trekking poles are only necessary if you are setting it up in free-standing mode, fairly commodious, airy, storm-worthy and light. Plus it has his & hers doors. I hardly ever bother with using trekking poles when I set mine up, and I use them on the trail as a matter of course to ease the stress on my not-so-good kneees. I'm not sure how well it would do in FL, though, as it is single walled.

If you did move to bringing trekking poles the six moon designs lunar duo is even larger inside.

[Jeff Antig]

I second the double rainbow. It's a great size for couples and even has an optional clip-in liner if you are worried about condensation.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Peter

Welcome to the Light Side. Once you start into MYOG, there is no escape.

> I'm a little shocked those tents cost that much for as simple as they are.
I understand. I think the problem is that you are comparing cheap Chinese mass-market stuff with state-of-the-art stuff. There ARE reasons people pay the extra. But the cost is a reason why so many of us MYOG too.

Cheers

[Peter O]

First of all, thanks for the warm welcomes.
I guess I'm a little confused on how you feel tarptents is a more 'advanced' product than the chinesium products such as North Face, Eureka, kelty, etc. While I 100% agree the materials they use are better, the design seems simpler. It seems to me that some GENIUS realized to make something lighter, going back to the simple days might be in order. When I look at a tarptent, I basically see a rainfly with a couple poles to provide structure and some netting sewn into the fly to keep things bug proof…am I wrong here? I think it was Ray Jardines site that showed someone approx 30 years ago camping with the exact same method. Doesn't seem like anything revolutionary to me…I guess that's my only point. ANYWAYS, I'm all down for cutting out the fluff and getting tents lighter, so I'm completely onboard on this new methodology in backpacking. I've seen a couple plans for a MYO tarptent…might give that a try.

Now I'm still getting a little hung up on quilts. Tim, I could really use your knowledge here. Can someone explain to me about all the different fabric choices out there, the pros/cons of each fabric, and cost/benefit ratio of each? Or point me to a link that will help clear things up for me. I've seen momentum,ClimaXP, down, synthetic, ripstop1.1, ….list goes on and on. I've done a lot of reading on this and still feel lost. Another thought I had was down not being the best material for the Florida Trail. As this is my primary location I'll probably see the most use here. It's very humid down here most of the year. Will that be a problem with down. Is synthetic a better option? I've also read something about sealing your bag. Is that an option for down? My goal is to gather the least amount of gear that is most versatile. Like I said previously, I'd want to start getting out to the AT as well. Do you find that it's beneficial to make 2 quilts, a synthetic for the FT, and a down for the AT? Things are starting to get a bit overwhelming, lol.

[todd]

As for your down question:

I use it (primarily a JRB No Sniveller, supplemented w/puffy layers in coldest temps) in N. FL, as well as GA and Carolinas. No probs there; you just have to take simple precautions.

Fabrics such as Momentum are great for water resistance and breathability.

Climashield will work exceptionally; I just prefer the weight & compressibility advantages of down in most conditions.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Peter,

I'd stick with TarpTent. I've owned two of them and the quality is first rate, not to mention the good design. I now have a TT Moment.

Your choices for a 2 person TT are, as I see it:

1.DOUBLE WALL> Scarp 2 – you can split the load more equally.

2. SINGLE WALL> Cloudburst 2 or Double Rainbow – both good choices with the Double Rainbow having 2 vestibules and an optional inner liner for cooler weather. The Cloudburst 2 being a bit more wind resistant.

BTW, You'll notice I'm not recommending a tarp. Been there & done that and found it was too much fiddling to get it right for the conditions plus with a tarp's bug neting AND a ground cloth to contend with the a new TarpTent seemed like a no-brainer. When I make camp I want fast shelter setup and virtually any TT is very fast to put up.

[Ken Bennett]

We own both the Tarptent Double Rainbow, and the Six Moons Designs Lunar Duo. For two people, I would hands-down recommend the SMD Lunar Duo. It has significantly more interior volume than the DR. Both are well made tents.

Sure, you can make something like this yourself. Working with these very slippery fabrics takes some practice and experience. Also, some of the designs are very complex. In my mind, the tents are reasonably priced for what they are.

Finally, let me add that single wall tents don't automatically make for unhappy wives. Not in my experience, anyway.

[John Roan]

Peter,

Obviously it's all personal preference, but I totally understand that trial and error can be expensive when it comes to going ul. I refer to it as a journey, because you never seem to be done.

My motivation is to go as lightweight as possible and still be comfortable. The lighter on the trail, the more fun! I tend to only change one thing at a time so my backcountry experience is not about the gear. When I've pushed the envelope too far (i.e. was uncomfortable or something didn't work well), I take a step back.

By the way, don't give up on a tarp because you think they are too difficult to set up. Take a look at the video on the gg website that shows the set up of different shelters. I can tell you from experience that it really is as easy as Glen makes it look.

John

[P. P.]

Ken,
I don't think that David was saying that single wall tents make for unhappy wives, but wet wives might be unhappy and the condensation in Florida might do that in a single wall tent. I don't know, I live in the opposite side of the country and I'm a happy wife with a SMD Lunar Duo. ;-)

[backpackerchick]

Do couples need a bigger or smaller tent then 2 unrelated people?

[Dane Ward]

I'd like to throw one more option into the mix – the Tarptent Rainshadow 2.

My wife and I slept in ours about 150 nights throughout our 2009 AT thru hike. It never let us down. In spite of the fact that '09 was a record rainfall year, condensation wasn't much of a concern, The Rainshadow vents quite well.

We found that this 3-person shelter was perfect for a couple and our gear. There were many rainy mornings that we got packed and ready to depart – inside and in the dry. Tag-along and I used Montbell SS down sleeping bags and never had a problem.

At a little over 2.5 pounds the Rainshadow carrying weight was reasonable as well.

Previous to the Rainshadow, we owned a Double Rainbow. While it is a fine design, we continually appreciated the Rainshadow's additional living space.

[Peter O]

Ok so I've been thinking over what everyone said and reading more. Seems to be a pretty decent spread of which tarptent to get. The majority does appear to say tarptent though.

I'm definitely sold on tarptents. I think I'm going to try my hands at making one this christmas season. I like the kit at thru-hiker, tarptent for 2 but have been pondering the idea of
1. Adding a floor
2. Extending the beak down to the ground like the six moon tents.
What do you guys think of both of those ideas? I'd like this tent to be ideally suited for handling a good storm and decently cold weather (down to 20F).
What type of material would you recommend for the floor?

As far as the quilt, I think I'm also sold on MYO quilt. the FT is a strange beast and the only conclusion to solving my problems I feel is to make 2 quilts. One a very light summer quilt with a drawstring footbox, climaXP, momentum.90. Probably rated down to 50F. The Second a 'winter' quilt for the colder weathers of FT and the AT: momentum.90 and down. Ideally would like this rate for a solid 20F.
With this method, I don't have to worry about horrible humidity down here screwing w/ my down quilt and most importantly don't have to haul around my 20F quilt when it's 90F outside. And I'll make the XP quilt first which should be the easier quilt to make so should give me some practice. Critique? Do you think the momentum is necessary and worth the price? I find it interesting that the price has gone up $2 since 2007.

One last thing. A lot of these tarptents use trekking poles. I have never experimented with them and don't know if I see a point in my young life (25yo). Would you buy trekking poles for the tent alone even if I don't use them to hike? Would you say to buy them with the option that I can use them or maybe someone else in the party? Just trying to figure out if tent poles or trekking poles is the way to go. Which SHOULD normally be lighter?

BTW, thank you everyone for the comments. I really appreciate it.

[Lynn Tramper]

If you don't use trekking poles, then plain old carbon fibre poles will be lighter for your tent. Sounds like you've got the winter 'all sewn up' with MYOG projects ;)

[Elena Lee]

2nd question, I'm not a trekking pole user. Do all tarp tents use trekking poles?

Hi, my husband and I own a Tarptent Double Rainbow, and we love it. It is more spacious than our previous double wall tent, it is extremely easy to set up, and it doesn't require trekking poles – it has one pole included. If you are looking for space and comfort – I highly recommend. You will have some condensation on the wall, but it can be easily wiped off. Another plus of this tent is that it has 2 separate doors. Also it packs very small, and my husband usually carries the whole thing on the side of his GoLite pack. I would recommend getting a set of thin Titanium stakes instead of the ones provided.

Totally worth the investment!

Those I assume are not included in the weight specs correct?

No

Should I be a trekking pole user?

this depends on your knees. I wouldn't go without them as they take so much stress off my knees and I have a previous knee injury. they are also helpful when crossing creeks and rivers.

Are tarptents worth it if I have to back poles too?

Not sure what' u're asking here but Double Rainbow has its own single pole.

[David Ure]

"Ken,
I don't think that David was saying that single wall tents make for unhappy wives, but wet wives might be unhappy and the condensation in Florida might do that in a single wall tent."

This is exactly what I was getting at but you explained it better!

[Peter O]

Any other comments in regards to the quilts?

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