“Arnold Wants To Terminate 220 State Parks”

[cary bertoncini]

include a funding mechanism – i absolutely hate unfunded mandates (like no child left behind). i consider them sneaky political b.s. politicians use to appear to be doing something – often they have absolutely no intention or expectation of ever funding the program.

i've voted no on all bond measures the last couple years – no matter how worthy the project, i vote no on bond measures in down economic years, and even in up years, i vote no on many if not most bond measures.

[Casey Bowden]

Nate,

Just to put things in perspective regarding proposition 13, at least from a homeowners point of view, I bought a house in the Bay Area a few years ago and pay about $8500 a year in property taxes. That's pretty close to what some people pay all year for rent!

[Jim W.]

Arnold proposes cutting all General Fund money from the state parks. For FY 2005-2006 the General Fund contributed $100 million, or 29% of the total parks funding. This year I believe it's down to $70 million.

One place where I've seen government privatization work well is running USFS campgrounds. I would suggest that Arnold look at a similar plan for California's State Parks.

[Nate Meinzer]

Well 8500 sounds like a lot for property taxes, but it would only allow you to rent a 700/month unit…..which wouldn't go very far around here, especially if you needed a house.

Though I guess I don't have anything to compare it to elsewhere, and the tax is a percentage of the property's value, so 8500 could be a low-end figure if you had a really sweet place. =)

[Jim MacDiarmid]

I was wondering myself where I could find a $700/month place in the Bay Area.

Having never owned a home, I'm sure I'll be corrected and properly put in my place on this, but wouldn't you have to at least subtract out the money saved (if any) on personal income taxes by writing off the interest on your mortgage when talking about the tax costs of home ownership?

As my security deposit on my apt sits there doing nothing for me every year, I think I should get to write it off. It's only fair.

[Casey Bowden]

Hey Nate,

The point that I didn't make so well in my original post is that houses in California, and the Bay Area especially, are really expensive, so our 1% can be a lot of money. I certainly wonder where my $8500 per year is going to.

Also note that no one in California pays only 1% for their property taxes. The city and county they live in tack on additional fees, so the actual property tax rate are typically between 1.4 and 1.8%.

[Dave T]

.

[M G]

"wow, it took all of ONE post to go from a discussion about PARKS that we HIKE in possibly being closed… to rants about illegals, welfare, state workers, unions, taxes, ad nauseum."

True but I'm entertained nonetheless.

[Ali e]

Wow, you guys are making me miss Cali. I left over two years ago because I got sick of supporting the whole world. In the end I was paying over 50% of my income in taxes so I just shut the doors. Closing my company only directly affected about a dozen people but the trickle effect was in the hundreds. I know many people who have done the same thing. Why fight it? I just quit and went on vacation. My point to this is if you dont want to pay for stupid programs dont. Cut back your income live your life and be free. Just my 2cents which is more than I earned this month. FOr those of you who say you can't, trust me you can.:) Cheers Ali

This is what its like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50sUt1nr52I

[Ken Helwig]

I am like Casey. I too spend $8000 in property taxes each year. I would love to know where all the money goes.

Funny how, Arnold spearheaded the recall election and look at what he has done since becoming Gov. Time for a change

[Robert Blean]

You hit a pet peeve of mine. I continue to be amazed that Prop 13 survives the "Equal Protection" test.

I recall discussing with a neighbor at the time that Prop 13 would end up (a few years down the road) with people paying wildly different taxes on essentially identical properties. Her answer was "I do not understand that, but I am going to vote for Prop 13 because it promises to reduce my taxes."

— Bob

[Tom Caldwell]

Are they shutting down Bohemian Grove?

[Rick Dreher]

Hi Bob,

Most local and county governments have never quite recovered from the effects of Prop 13, as they and schools are where property taxes go (not the state general fund, as some think). If home and commercial inventories don't roll over, tax revenues are stagnant in an era of continuously rising costs. Our property tax rates are low nationally, but newer buyers in inflated markets (remember those?) pay a disproportionate burden:

"Five states (Alabama, Delaware, Hawaii, Louisiana and West Virginia) and the District of Columbia have lower effective property tax rates than California and 45 states have higher effective tax rates. Twenty-five states have effective rates between .5% and 1.0%, 12 states have effective rates between 1.0% and 1.5% and 7 states have tax rates that are equal to more than 1.5% of market value compared to California’s .477% rate."

My mother had to sell the family house in Seattle a few years after my father died because her tax assessment went up thousands annually back in the dot-com boom. (But hey, no state income tax!) I learned first-hand that some damping of property tax rate changes is a good thing. I just don't think it was executed properly here.

Cheers,

Rick

[Greg Mihalik]

"Funny how, Arnold spearheaded the recall election and look at what he has done since becoming Gov. Time for a change"

It's not so funny how the populace of California has continued to vote to spend money on programs and entitlements. It is unfortunate, but the well is empty.

[cary bertoncini]

it did address a problem in our property tax structure, but it replaced one problem with another problem, like so many supposed "solutions"

it put california squarely in the hands of developers (which i actually think was its covert intended purpose) – if a city or county does not grow, it dies fiscally

[Robert Blean]

This URL purports to be a list of the parks to be closed

For those of us in the Bay Area, both Big Basin and Henry Coe are on the list (along with most other parks and beaches).

One thing I wonder — would maintenance cease on the historical parks? Certain things are essentially irrecoverable, such as some kinds of maintenance and laying off highly skilled professional people. It seems a shame to not figure out how to avoid the irrecoverable damage sort of thing.

— Bob

[Robert Blean]

Rick,

You are correct that there was a problem; I saw it then, and I still recognize it. The problem was that people were getting taxed out of their houses due to real estate prices spiralling upwards — especially those on fixed incomes.

We certainly should have done something to solve the problem — just not Prop 13 and the inequities that it has created. There are (other) ways to address the underlying problem without creating a situation that is grossly unfair to more recent home buyers.

— Bob

[Robert Blean]

"Also note that no one in California pays only 1% for their property taxes."

Actually, that is false. Those who have been in their homes for a long time have seen their home values go up much faster than their trended-upwards taxes, resulting in net taxes well below 1%.

---

For those who were commenting that they could not find anything to rent anywhere near the $8500/year in taxes being paid — do not forget that he is also paying a mortgage. Even after the mortgage interest deduction, his out-of-pocket mortgage payments are probably several times his taxes — possibly 5x or so, depending on his interest rate. Assuming he is fairly new to his house, most of that is pure interest, very little going into building equity. That could make his "rent" several times the $700/month being cited — conceivably $3500-$4200/month.

— Bob

[Ken Helwig]

Bob your assesment is correct on mortgage payments

[Ken Helwig]

"It's not so funny how the populace of California has continued to vote to spend money on programs and entitlements. It is unfortunate, but the well is empty."

Well Greg that is your opinion. Enjoy living in Colorado.
I'll take my beaches and mountains and the many liberal spending folks in this state anyday (wink!)

[Ken Helwig]

Bob, if I remember correctly, Parks that cannot pay for itself would be closed while the ones that remain able to care for themselves would stay open. Big Basin, and Henry Cowell near my house probably have nothing to worry about. I do however worry about Sunset St. Beach, Manrisa St. Beach, New Brighton St. Beach, etc. Would those be considered??? I'd hate to see our beach access taken away.

[Robert Blean]

Ken,

You do remember correctly.

As to Big Basin — all I know about it is that I have seen it explicitly mentioned as on the list of 220 on every web site I went to that talked about that.

Now as to how accurate any of them is, and whether all 220 will actually get closed … beats me.

— Bob

[Ken Helwig]

Well I hope that Coe survives too

[Ali e]

Doesn't anybody rent anymore? Why pay a $10,000. per month mortgage plus taxes when you can rent the house next door for $2,500. If something breaks call the landlord. You can leave when you want and save the $8,500 per month and put it in the bank. That's over one million saved in ten years. This beats any investment going. Remember mortgage is french for until death. If your accountant tells you you need more write-offs fire him.:) Ali

[Ken Helwig]

But those write offs makes my life easier. Plus, before the downturn it could help you make money. Renting does not do that. I made a substantial amount off of my other house which in turn afforded me the ability to move out of a neighborhood that had gang problems, drug dealers, and crazy people. Now I live in the mountains, with a nice neighborhood, kids playing and peace and quiet. I'll take that anyday thank you

[Author]

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