200D NorthPak “pack fabric” experience?

[Elliot H]

In the middle of a new pack project. Got the thing mostly designed, but I’m trying to figure out what the best body material might be. X-pac VX21 from RBTR was my primary choice, but I thought it’d be fun to look for alternatives.

I found a recycled fabric here that looks promising. 200D “NorthPak”. Comparable to VX21, but lighter (4.6 osy according to rockywoods) and about the same price per yard (~$20).

Here’s some basic info: 4.6 osy, .5 mm RPET film backing, 45 degree square gridstop pattern, comes in black and white. I’m assuming it’s fairly similar to VX21 in terms of waterproofness and feel. Only real question is durability.

Does anyone on here have any experience with this fabric? I think it was released fairly recently. I like that it’s recycled and I also like working with new materials, so I might try it out regardless.

Any feedback on other X-Pac alternatives or first impressions on the NorthPak?

 

Thanks,
Elliot

[Elliot H]

Edit: It also comes in 400D, 600D, and 1200D versions. I’m only really interested in the 200D version.

[Jeffrey O]

I bought some of the 200D and made a fanny pack for my wife.  The fabric was easy to work with since it folds/creases almost like paper.  I’ll report back on long-term wear and tear but it feels like it should hold up fine.

[Elliot H]

Jeffrey, that fanny pack looks great! I really like how you used the blue grid on the outside with the yellow webbing! Nice color pop.

I’ll plan on picking some up and add to this thread when I’ve got the pack done. Thanks for the pictures.

[Taylor_At_DP]

Hi Jeffery,

Nice looking pack!! Look forward to hearing about long term durability with North Pak.

We bought some the 400d and 600d and tested in our lab. The hand feel and weight is similar to X-Pac but the tear tests were much lower. The 400d polyester tearing more like a 200d nylon. I would expect lower tears with polyester, but it was dramatic.

We are also working on recycled polyester and natural fiber based X-Pac and are in initial sampling now. Just want to make sure the performance is up to our and our customers expectations.

Cheers,

Taylor

[Jeffrey O]

Thank you for sharing your lab results, I’ll keep you posted on how it holds up to daily use.  Glad to hear that DP is working on recycled variants of X-Pac- let us know when its ready!

[Elliot H]

Thank you both for your insights!

Taylor,

Definitely keep us posted on the new X-Pac variants. Sounds like something a lot of us would be interested in!

[Taylor_At_DP]

Will do!

I actually have a couple interesting prototype fabrics with some new fiber reinforcements. Maybe you guys want to try them out?

Shoot me an email: [email protected]

[Jeffrey O]

Hi everyone, reporting back after 2 months of near daily use of bags made using the NorthPak 200D fabric.  Everything looks new with no tears or abrasion holes.  Granted the bags haven’t seen heavy bushwacking or anything, but it feels like the fabric should hold up OK in non-climbing use.  NorthPak is cool fabric to work with and the grid pattern makes it possible to easily match panels.

 

That said, the NorthPak fabric feels more fragile compared to similar weight X-Pac fabric.  The 200D NorthPak feels more like VX07 versus the VX21.  NorthPak cuts much more easily with scissors and cutter compared to X-Pac.  IMHO X-Pac is better for wear resistance and is better suited for more abrasive environments.

[Brett A]

Not to hijack the thread but…

Taylor,

Any chance that we’ll see more variants without the X ply-grid…like the V15 but with a heavier denier face layer?  Maybe this has been brought up and answered before.  I should have checked first!

[Jeffrey O]

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[Jeffrey O]

Taylor did send me some VX21 with a lighter weight backing than normal, wish I had a gram scale so I could have weighed it before cutting it up

[Taylor_At_DP]

@Jeff – That is VX21 RS Soft with an Ultra-PE 55 degree X-PLY. Weight is right around 205gsm.

 

@Brett – It’s all possible! We do make V15, V21, V51 (all without X-PLY) from time to time as custom production runs for customers who request it, for various reasons. For our standard product-line we do believe in the benefits for X-PLY fiber reinforcement for added stability, strength and tear resistance, so no plans to deviate from that in terms of our standard product line.

Cheers,
Taylor

[Roger Caffin]

The DP fabrics are very good imho, except for the X-PLY. I am sure the X-Ply is good for sails, but for outdoor gear it has a serious abrasion problem.

(This is the inside face of one of my packs.)

As you can see, any rubbing will be focused almost entirely on the bulky X-PLY thread. The same sort of wear-focus happens on the outer face as well, just a bit more slowly. Get rid of the X-PLY and the fabric will last much longer for outdoor gear.

Cheers

[Brett A]

Get rid of the X-PLY and the fabric will last much longer for outdoor gear.

I recalled you bringing this up before and was curious as to why we haven’t seen anything besides the V15 RBTR offers. At least not that I’ve run across. Am I missing something?

[Roger Caffin]

@Brett

Remember: the fabric is primarily aimed at the yachting fraternity, and that the X-PLY is probably very good for sail-making. I suspect that what may be missing is a link between serious outdoors gear users’ experiences and DP management.

Or maybe not. The Q is whether it is worth while for DP to make special runs without the X-PLY for the outdoors industry. The fabric is not cheap, so sales would be limited, and a lot of the more fashionable gear industry does not expect their products to experience all that much use or wear. But it will look good. Market realities, I am afraid.

Cheers

[Brett A]

Thanks Roger. Makes sense.

[Taylor_At_DP]

@ Roger what vintage is that X-Pac?! :)

@ Brett & Roger Again, happy to make a custom fabric without an X-PLY, it requires a 500-1000yd commitment depending on the choice of the fabric.

It would be certainly easier and less complicated for us to make fabrics without an X-PLY, however the entire team at DP is committed to making the best fabrics for our customers, and the addition of strategic fiber placement(X-PLY) have clear and proven structural benefits both ins sailcloth and purpose designed outdoor fabrics. If this long term abrasion is concern, I’d suggest our Tactical line which has a smaller 400d aramid X-PLY, stronger, lighter and lends itself to better abrasion numbers due to the smaller X-PLY yarn bundle.

Happy to channel any feedback anybody in the community has for DP products or innovations. the DP Presidents office is next door and the door is always open!

Cheers,
Taylor

[Brett A]

Hey Taylor. Unfortunately I’m just a simple clod who is shopping around for a couple yards of fabric so my wife can make me a pack, LOL! After seeing the V15 at RBTR, I was curious as to why there weren’t more variants without the X-ply. Truth be told, the current offerings with the X-ply would likely serve me well for a LONG time.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Taylor

Your guess is right. According to the swing tag and your records, it is a very early vintage. The fabric also delaminated after many years, and that was due to the adhesive layer <i>from that vintage</i>. You commented that the latest offerings were much better.

Now, what constitutes ‘best fabrics for our customers’ depends on the customers. I have used my X-Pac frame packs for many years, and my opinion is that the X-PLY is not so good for making outdoors gear. First, there is the abrasion problem I highlighted above, and second I do not (ever) see any forces in my gear which could need that sort of reinforcement.

I fully understand the problem of volume production or MOQ. I am just waving a flag for fabric without X-PLY (or ripstop, for similar reasons) so DP are at least aware of alternatives. I see that RSBTR is also that way – but able to afford a volume commitment.

When I get a spare moment I will look at your Tactical line. URL?

Cheers

[Geoff Caplan]

Taylor, are you aware of any consumer source for the Tactical line?

It sounds interesting, but I don’t think I’ve seen it for sale.

Most of us here simply make our own gear so can’t afford full runs…

[Greg Pehrson]

Roger and Geoff:

https://www.rockywoods.com/X50-Kevlar-Tactical-X-Pac-Laminated-Ripstop-Fabric

https://www.rockywoods.com/X50-Kevlar-Tactical-Camo-X-Pac-Laminated-Ripstop-Fabric

[Roger Caffin]

Yes, I had seen that. The non-camo is out of stock.

Cheers

[Brad Rogers]

I’m not sure if they still do, but Seek Outside used to offer X50 fabric.

[Brook / MtGL]

I also bought some NorthPak 200D recently. I think it’s closest comparison is the X21 RC in the X-Pac world. The 45 degree “X” of NorthPak is surely an advantage for flexibility in layout and cutting.

I just noticed another major difference. The X-Pac pieces (e.g. X21, Tx07) curled easily into coils  so it’s quite time consuming to work with, while the NorthPak fabric seems not having such properties.  The NorthPak feels more like paper (or DCF in some way), so it’s easy to align, cut, & sew etc.

I prefer fabrics like TX07 or the Hybrid DCF 50D where one side of the fabric can be taped (I made DCF tape by myself). e.g. below, I made a sacoche by using X-Pac Tx07. But it seems the Tx07 is of less popularity and only a light color for many years. So now with  NorthPak, I have another option of this type of fabrics. :-)

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