Overfill worth it or not?

[Dana S]

I'm pulling the trigger and ordering a WM Megalite this evening.

I saw the bentgate coupon code and it will bring the total for the long bag to ~315 vs ~350 if i get it on Hermit's Hutt.

The only advantage to HH is that they offer free overfill. I'm torn as to what to do? The discount at bentgate is very appealing but the free overfill could prove double the value in the field.

Can anyone comment on exactly how much the "free overfill" can/has benefited the temperature rating? I'm planning a thru-hike of the AT in 2010 and this would be the bag I would take with me. I'm a warm sleeper and this bag, combined with a light base layer, should cover the colder sections of the trip.

FWIW – combining it with an eVent MLD bivy and GG Spinntwinn for an idea of the shelter system.

Thanks in advance.

[John Haley]

If the baffling is the correct height and the normal fill is correct to do the job for that height, then all that an overfill will do is add extra to the same, already lofted, area. Overfill is more important if the initial fill is not quite adequate, was slightly underfilled, or baffles were unevenly filled to begin with. In other words, the overfill does not necessarily equate to a much warmer bag. It is more like an insurance that the warmth it was supposed to be, actually is.

[t.darrah]

Dana,
IMO you should go with the standard fill for $315.00 and use the savings for gear you may still need. WM temp ratings are accurate if not conservative and by using the bivy in colder conditions you will add at least 5*. This is not taking into account wearing layers as needed. With the standard fill you have options to add warmth, with the additional fill you will be dealing with the added warmth when not needed. Stay standard and safe.

[Anonymous]

The Megalite provides comfort and warmth down below the represented 30º for me as a slightly cold sleeper. I am glad I didn't get the overfill.

[Dana S]

@John:

Thanks for the tip. That was my suspicion, but with WM bags being praised so highly, i wanted to make sure i got my money's worth. Good explanation.

@Thom:

As a warm sleeper i think you're right. It would only be detrimental to my bag's lifespan and my nights sleep if i were unable to cool my body enough to prevent perspiration. Plus i can save my money for a new Firelight 550 :)

@John:

Great to hear some first hand experience, especially from a "cold" sleeper. If it's providing adequate warmth for you then i'm sure to be ok with it!

Thanks for all the replies and helping me make an educated purchase. BPL FTW!

[David Olsen]

Sounds like from other threads here that down overfill will
increase the warmth of the item at a greater degree/lb
than the initial degree/lb. Some compression of the down
increases its insulation value. So overfill will get you
a much warmer bag.

[Ashley Brown]

> In other words, the overfill does not necessarily equate to a much warmer bag. It is more like an insurance that the warmth it was supposed to be, actually is.

If you have a look back through Richard Nisley's posts you'll see that he has a fairly persuasive data to show that "overfill" does indeed increase the warmth of a bag. In fact, it seems that you can stuff down into a bag at significantly greater densities than is used in most sleeping bags whilst still getting "full value" for the warmth of the down. Obviously there is a point at which the extra down stops giving you extra warmth, but 2oz of overfill definitely does not fall into that category. I think user reports also confirm that overfill makes for a warmer bag.

So is overfill "worth it"? It depends what you want the temperature rating to be! Overfill is worth it if the bag you want is not rated as warm enough. If you are thinking of getting the megalite (30 degrees) and you would prefer a 25ish degree bag, then the overfill is definitely worth it. If you don't actually need a bag which goes below 30 degrees, then there's no point in getting the overfill.

[Art Sandt]

Hmm $35 more doesn't sound too free to me, but I like overfill on 25-35 degree bags personally. The kind of weather that gets down into the low 30s can just as easily go down into the low 20s and then the overfill pays off.

[Randall Dee]

I own a Megalight and while I love the bag, I think it could definitely benefit from some additional stuffing. Sometimes, I think that WM tried to do too much with this bag by giving it a 64 inch girth, rate it to 30* and still come in at 1 lb 8 oz total weight. It’s a large cut bag to stretch 12 oz of fill.

By the way, depending on your size, you might consider a bag like the Ultralight. It’s much warmer for an additional 5 oz but the narrow cut certainly isn’t for everyone.

[Sara C]

I own the bag. I would get the overfill. I planned on having the bag bag a long time (when I bought it 5 or 6 years ago) and I figure that extra overfill would help keep the loft fluffy in the long run as the years went by. Worked well! Great bag for larger folks or those that don't like tight spaces. The wife & I have 4 WM's in the family.

Jon

Edit: I agree with the opinion right above about the fill being a bit thin. Still a great bag.

[Turley]

I purchased a WM Ultralite Super w/ overfill in the footbox only. My feet always seemed to get cold first and this bag put a stop to it…

[Dana S]

Thanks again for all the responses.

I've decided to hold off for tonight at least and think about it until tomorrow.

I have a question for the Ultralite owners, i'm 6'2" and 190lb. I'm definitely going for the long model, but do you think the ultralite will be too restricting for me?

Size wise, i'm athletic and have a 33" waist. I'm not concerned about girth per say, but i have broad shoulders and i'm not sure if this bag will feel too restrictive? I sleep on my back so not an issue of needing room for side sleeping.

My thoughts are that after seeing a Meglalite in person at a local retailer over xmas, i agree it's kind of "flat" for it's width. There's not a lot of stretch to the amount of down they put in each baffle.

Also, the more i read, the more i've come to decide that in the early month(s) of the AT thru-hike the temps get pretty low. In march-may, there are alot of accounts of freezing temperatures and light snow in some of the areas. Especially with a good portion above the timberline and using a tarp (i.e. spindrift is inevitable) I feel like maybe a 30* bag is just not a good idea.

The Ultralite sans overfill seems like a perfect choice. I'm afraid the Megalite will not be enough and the Ultralite w/o the overfill could fit the bill just right.

I'm fresh out of college so I finally am getting into the pure ultralight gear. Before i'd been using some hand me downs and old heavy equipment. Just trying to make some solid investments that will last a while! As usual it just might take some trial and error.

Thanks again for the input!

[Ashley Brown]

I'm 6'1" and 160 pounds… plenty of space for me in my 6'6" ultralite. I would guess that you might find it snug, but you might be ok. Hopefully someone here will be more similar in size/weight to give you a pretty good idea.

[Boozer]

Alpinlite or Megalite w/ a jacket…if you want 20 degrees. The difference between 59" and 64" girth is HUGE for me. Even at my in season weight of 195 the 59" bags feel very restrictive to me. I am 6'1" and with a 46" chest and I would assume we are rather similar in size. IMHO forget the Ultralite…but maybe that's just me. I own a megalite and can take it down to 20 with just a light down jacket even in high humidity. Hope this is helpful.

[Ashley Brown]

Jonathan… a montbell UL inner jacket, or montbell light down jacket (for example)? Just wondering what your usual system is to get you down to 20.

[Boozer]

I have used both a Patagonia Down Sweater vest and MB Ex light jacket. Also I always sleep in a hat, as I am sure most do, in cold weather.

Plus I carry a bit more "natural" insulation than you since I weigh in @ 195 + .

[Ashley Brown]

OK thanks Jonathan. I will start eating to build up my insulation ;-)

[Dirk Rabdau]

Dana –

As an owner of the Versalite (10 degree bag), I can say that if you are concerned about shoulder girth, perhaps you should try the Alpinlite. The rationale is simple, both are 20 degree bags with a 5-inch difference at the shoulders (59 to 64).

The Alpinlite weighs two more ounces, but I think I would personally feel a little better about the flexibility of a system that would allow me to say, get into my sleeping bag with extra clothes for any extreme conditions you may run into. Certainly a more snug fit would work, especially as a back sleeper. And I suppose there is less air that needs to be warmed in a narrower bag, so you mileage may vary.

The bag ratings of WM are reputed to be realistic (my own experience would indicate that they are, but I haven't tried enough bags to make any sort of definitive judgment). Of course, a bag rated for 30 degrees generally means it will keep you alive at 30 degrees, but not necessarily super comfortable. I think that WM bags will keep you more comfortable at its rating than many other brands, especially if you combine it with a thermal top.

The Versalite I use has a 62-inch girth, which to me seems fine (maybe even a bit roomy), but I am a far cry from 6-2 and do not have particularly broad shoulders (alas, the only times it pays not to be tall seems to be when flying coach and buying regular length sleeping bags).

I also own a Feathered Friends Lark, which at its girth of 60 inches, feels like I am "locked in" compared to the 62 inches offered by the Versalite. But that may also be attributable to the function of the collar. I did elect for the overfill in this bag. Yes, it's a 10 degree bag but I am a cold sleeper and don't really like wearing a lot of extra clothes to bed. (I think my problems may be equally attributable with moving around too much in my sleep and waking up on the ground next to my thermarest.)

I have experience with bags that weren't up to snuff temperature-wise, thus the reason I elected to buy bags that were perhaps overkill.

I like both the VM and FF bags for different reasons. My quibble with all of the ExtremeLite Series WM bags are the propensity for the shell material to hold moisture in high humidity conditions. Obviously, the area where I do most of my backpacking (Western Washington) can be pretty wet, even during the summer, and certainly that exacerbates the problem. Other than that I'd say they are very solid bags and made in the USA (along with Feathered Friends, which is out of Seattle!)

Good luck!

Dirk

[b s]

I'd second the suggestion on the WM Alpinlite. I have both the Alpinlite and the Megalite with overfill. Same wide cut on both bags. Loft is similar on my two bags, however the Alpinlite's full down collar is what sets it apart from the Megalite. The overfilled Megalite has kept me warm in unexpected cold temps in the upper 20s, but any time I expect temperatures in that range, I grab the Alpinlite just to be safe.

I used a 15* bag for the first month on the AT and was happy I did. If I had to choose one of my bags to repeat that experience, I'd take the Alpinlite no question.

[Boozer]

Just in case you don't have this yet…

Here are your average AT temps.

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.1025291/k.72A0/Average_Temperatures.htm

[Slo Hiker]

My Megalite with the 2oz OVF option has as much loft as an Alpinelite.

I'm a warm sleeper, but I've slept under a tarp and used mine in temperatures down in the teens, so I know the OVF boosted the 30-deg rating a pretty good bit.

A free OVF option in any WM bag is a no-brainer IMHO.

[Dana S]

Dirk

I think you raise a valid point about the flexibility and importance of having the option to layer underneath. Hopefully my bivy will help keep the outer shell fabric dry in the damp conditions.

Brad

That's exactly the kind of experience I was hoping to hear about. I think you have pushed me over the edge as far as going with the Alpinlite! (did you use a bivy? If so, did you have to get it in wide?)

Jonathan

Thanks. I had not seen that before. I tried a google search and didn't get too much. Just had some thru-hikers' books that i'd been reading lately.

I think i'm going to go with the Alpinlite from BentGate. it comes to $362 after the discount. I think i would benefit from the extra room and full draft collar.

Thanks for the extra info from everyone. Very good insight!

[Boozer]

GREAT!!! We all expect a full report due to our personal investment in your gear selection.

Well Wishes!

Jonathan

[Dirk Rabdau]

Please let us know how it works out for you. And nice choice on the bivy as well, eVent should keep you nice a dry. (On the note, I just purchased a MLD bivy in wide [but without the extra length] to accommodate my higher loft bags per the suggestion of others – I haven't received it yet but seems like all MLD owners are very satisfied with their choices.)

I am sure you will enjoy the warm, soft splendor of the WM bag, especially after a long day on the trail. Keep us posted on how it works out for you. They are truly wonderful bags. I've used mine for a couple of seasons now and it's the one piece of equipment that never fails to make me happy.

Dirk

[b s]

Dana: I do not use a bivy/tarp setup so can't comment there. I'm a Tarptent guy. You won't be dissapointed with the Alpinilite. Enjoy your trip.

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