Cooking technique question…

[Vick Hines]

What kicks the interest is now common availability of 90%+ iso in form of red HEET and rubbing both. Yellow HEET, once common at rural crossroads stores along AT has been replaced by red HEET on grounds that the methyl in yellow harms fuel injector seals. Oh, well.

[John Chan]

I just recieved a shipment of esbit tabs from the only known distributor in Canada (SIR Mail Order).

I can confirm that 1 14g tab is barely sufficient to bring 750 mL of water (starting @ 68 F) to a rolling boil (est 10.5 min) so in my estimation, 1 tab = 1 hungry-man meal. I’m not sure of the utility of putting out the tab for later use as a partially burned tab appears “peaked” and almost fused to the titanium esbit holding tray.

Stuff is expensive here though. $80 CDN for 96 tabs… (when shipping is included). I think I’ll only be using it for emergencies during the winter months, and as part of a summer SUL kit that I’m working towards.

[John S.]

For me buying that much locally would cost about 43 US dollars.

[John Chan]

For me (before shipping) the price was $8/12 x 8 packs = $64 CDN.

Looks like the goods exchange rate hasn’t kept up with the current monetary exchange rate between our two great nations.

[Vick Hines]

Oshmans has Esbit for $6 for 12. Yes, it is expensive, but you can buy a lot of Esbit for what a Simmerlight and all its accutrements costs.

As for saving unused portions, If you are boiling 750 ml at a time, that little mound of Esbit hardly seems worthwile. I use 1/2 a tab, and to reliably boil 250 ml (1 US cup)at a time. That will cook 2 packs of Ramen. Enough for me, and there is almost always some left over even in the 40Fs. For boiling small amounts, the residue adds up.

[Al Shaver]

I have no problem blowing out Esbit tablets and using remainder for next meal.

I typically put 1-1/2 precooked instant lunch cups (with the foam cup removed and noodles crushed)and 1.5oz. shredded jerky into my 730ml/.85oz. Fosters beer can pot. One tablet gets the full pot plenty hot enough for palatability and internal warming.

I have a 15 year old steel wing stove, the BPL steel and titanium wing stoves and titanium windscreen. The old stove works great with my Fosters pot (the only pot I use with Esbit. Anything larger than 730 ml and the small amount of heat becomes problematic.) The old stove also weighs in @ 1 oz. which is .2oz. lighter than the BPL steel wing stove. Unfortunately both BPL stoves were NOT designed with the Fosters can in mind. They are completely incompatible and therefore appear to be useless products to me. Before I create a die to reform the can to fit the Ti BPL stove, I am playing with a .2oz , 24fl.oz. beer can esbit holder and pot support. I’ve got the dimensions and structural rigidity that I need. I’m working on the right hole pattern to keep the tablet combusting efficiently. I will post when I’ve got it perfected.

I think the BPL Ti windscreen is a useful item that will probably end up in my kit.

Vick, I’d love to get a look at your .3oz expanded aluminum fuel holder and pot support design. I’m sure that no matter how you did it, it will stimulate my thinking.

Cheers Al

[Vick Hines]

Al,
Thruhiker has plans for a titanium wing stove here:
http://www.thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp?subcat=2&cid=61

They also sell the titanium sheet. I’ll bet you can modify the plan enough to make the folding stove of your dreams.

During the discussions of Esbit stoves, I got an inspiration and made a much better one from flashing. I’ve dumped the folded expanded aluminum stand/burner on the grounds that the new one is as light, supports pots/cans more securely and is more durable.

This Esbit burner/pot support will weigh 5 grams (0.175 oz.) or less in aluminum flashing. The size can be adjusted to fit the diameter of your pot/can. For a regular pot, lay out 8×1.5 on flashing, mark fold lines at 2.5 inch intervals. For a Heineken, start with 6.5X1.5 and fold at 2″ intervals. This size fits INSIDE the bottom rim and is very secure. It also fits into the big Heineken can easier. Mark drill holes where the tabs will fold into the center 1/2 inch from centers between fold marks and 3/8 inch from the bottom. Drill 1/8″ holes and cut from the top to the holes. Taper the legs. Fold tabs to one side and crease and fold into triangle with the tabs to the inside. Drill and rivet (2 small 1/8″ aliminum rivets) the triangle along one leg. Form pan and rivet to the tabs folded to center. Rough pot supports with file or Dremmel.

When you get it how you want it, try titanium.

[Al Shaver]

Vick, Thanks for the Ti stove link, sharing your ideas and taking the trouble to post photos. Like the man said: Picture worth thousand word;[)> (Don’t feel bad if you didn’t get that smilie. It’s supposed to be Lao Tzu’s slanted eye,Fu Manchu moustache, smile and goatee.)

I’m going to continue work developing my aluminum can stove/support for the Fosters pot but I may end up embracing your flashing design for it’s versatility, simplicity and ease of manufacture. Hopefully when I get done, my nephews (on holiday break) can show me how to use their digital camera to post photos of my masterpiece.
Cheers, Al

[William Wright]

A full Esbit tablet puts out too much flame under my Snow Peak Mini Solo pot. To avoid wasting heat by burning a full tab to boil a pint of water, I cut the tab in half and slip in an additional quarter to finish the job once the half starts to die down. I just save the last quarter for future use in a zip lock bag.

By the way, Esbit tablets appear to be a mixture of hexamine and 1,3,5-trioxane (see http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/1%2c3%2c5-trioxane). And hexamine itself is used as a food additive, specifically a cheese preservative (see http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hexamine).

Although 1,3,5-trioxane is derived from formaldehyde, and hexamine is created by mixing formaldehyde and ammonia, efficient combustion will yield primarily carbon dioxide, water, and nitrogen dioxide.

[Bernard Shaw]

Thanks for researching the esbit information!

Evan

[Dean Zeisset]

I don’t hear any mention of cooking over a fire. I have an aluminum 2 quart kettle with a bail handle & I rig 3 sticks with a string & an adjustable tautline hitch knot. It only takes a small fire & I can cook for 3 large people. Rain, you say? I got a fire started on the Kalalau Trail on the island of Kauai in 30 hours of rain with one of my home made fire starters. One egg section of a cardboard egg carton filled with sawdust & covered in candle wax. Not the lightest fire starter, but it’ll give off an 8″ tourch for about 12 minutes. Enough time to get some small wet twigs going. If I’m ever in an environment like that again, (& I hope I am, it was unbelievable) I’ll definitley take a backup alcohol stove with a couple meals worth of fuel.

I was just wandering if cook fires were taboo or something. I never hear of anyone doing it. I realize that there are circumstances that may prohibit this method. Dry seasons or desert climates with no wood to burn, but this style of cooking is so much fun. It really brings out the cowboy in ya & saves some weight. When I go solo, I use a similar 1 quart pot. I recommend bringing your stove on the next trip, but try cooking over a fire. I’ve never tried it, but I’m sure you could arrange some stones to set the pot on if you don’t want to go out & purchase one with a bail handle.

[david chan]

John and Vick
I last studied chemistry at age 13, then dropped it because of lack of aptitude. You both impress me with you knowledge, and that is a sincere not a sarcastic remark. So please advise me, in words I can understand.

I live in England where we have no bears but lots of wind and rain, so we frequently cook inside our tents. Please tell me whether any by-products of esbit combustion (other than CO2) will do me any harm.

David

[Douglas Frick]

>I was just wandering if cook fires were taboo or something.

I rarely get to cook over a fire (most of my hiking is above the no-fires level) but there have been several threads here about how to construct and use an ultralight wood stove/windscreen/potstand make from a can. Here are two of them.

The G Spot >> Wood Stoves

Make Your Own Gear >> 1.5oz wood stove

[Dale Wambaugh]

“I live in England where we have no bears but lots of wind and rain, so we frequently cook inside our tents. Please tell me whether any by-products of esbit combustion (other than CO2) will do me any harm”

It is the carbon monoxide that will get you. Carbon dioxide will displace oxygen in the air, but carbon monoxide binds with your hemoglobin. CPR might get you going again with CO2, but with CO, you need a transfusion or you’re really dead. I just can’t imagine there is anything that isn’t dangerous in the fumes coming off an Esbit tab and I use them too.

Cooking in tents is dangerous in a lot of ways– spilling hot liquids, setting your clothing, the tent, and other gear on fire AND not being able to get out AND the fumes. You’re not climbing Everest—cook outside under your bumbershoot!

Being in a land where is drizzles for days on end (Washington), a common practice here is to put up a big tarp (this is in campgrounds) so everyone can cook, talk, play cards, and stay dry. Think about a mini version with a group camping– an 8’x10′ tarp and a couple poles can make a huge cook shelter.

Here’s a fantastic resource I found– all the MSDS data on many of the fuels we use with hiking stoves: http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm

[Vick Hines]

I believe the information from thefreedictionary to the effect that Esbit contains trioxane is incorrect, and I’m communicating directly with ESBIT COMPAGNIE GMBH to see check on that. Their website says Esbit has no content other than hexamine.

[david chan]

Dale, are you aware that telling a UK backpacker
“Cooking in tents is dangerous in a lot of ways– spilling hot liquids, setting your clothing, the tent, and other gear on fire AND not being able to get out AND the fumes. You’re not climbing Everest—cook outside under your bumbershoot! “

is about as condescending and discourteous as a UK backpacker telling a US backpacker
“Camping in the woods is dangerous because of bears and lots of other nasty things. You’re not on a safari- camp in large groups and always have an armed sentry.”

I have cooked in tent vestibules for years, using gas canisters, kerosene and alcohol, obviously making sure that there was no major build-up of nasties inside the tent, and taking other sensible precautions. The point of my posting was to ask whether esbit fumes contain nastier ingredients than the above, or ingredients which do harm at much smaller concentrations.

By the way, I don’t really recommend that you stop sleeping in the woods without an armed guard.

[Dale Wambaugh]

Sorry! I was just registering my not-too-humble opinion and I apoligise for being offensive. My intentions were to caution anyone about cooking in a closed space and with flammable fabrics, nothing more.

IMHO, Esbit fumes have the same issues as others– carbon monoxide and other combustion by-products. All fuels should be used with adequate ventilation. Silnylon is flammable and even those fabrics that are treated for flammability can still burn– the treatments slow the rate of combustion, but do not make them fire-proof; likewise for your bedding and your clothing. Ground cloths are typically not tested for fire safety like tent fabrics are and might be all too surprising when ignited. Please be careful!

[William Wright]

Dean,

There are a lot of public lands that don’t allow wood burning. For example, in western WA, Olympic National Park prohibits fires at many coastal sites to prevent forested areas adjacent to campsites from being further denuded; however, driftwood fires on the beach are allowed (if you care to time your cooking with the tides). In the Cascades wood fires aren’t allowed above the elevation of 4,000 ft, I think. I’m not sure of the reason for this prohibition, but I’ve been told by a forest ranger that the prohibition even extends to a wood stove, such as the Zip Stove, which I find further befuddling. Then there’s the leave-no-trace philosophy which pretty much eliminates open fires. I’ve concluded that packing a stove is essential in most, if not all, instances.

Bill

[Anitra Kass]

I have used esbit on both my AT and PCT thru-hikes. I like it alot. I do mostly boil water dinners however I have browned salami and then cooked pasta…at Rae Lakes in the Sierra last year. It was too much effort to do that all of the time so I usually boil water and make Lipton, Ramen, etc. I have used both a small pot and a pot about the size of the .9 liter Evernew pot (although it was much heavier and cost much less). I have no problem blowing out the tab when I am done with it although I have noticed that it doesn’t seem to burn as hot when relit (no scientific proof just my observation). I can’t seem to break one but sometimes they break on their own and I use a small piece.

As for smell…they do smell when burning. I notice it more in the house when I was trying out my own version of a solid fuel stove.

Use a windscreen. Use a windscreen. Use a windscreen. It’s that important.

I also like being able to see how much fuel I have, I like that the container for my fuel gets smaller as I consume my fuel (unlike alcohol or canisters) and I like not having “liquid” in my pack…I don’t worry about my fuel leaking, I can see how much I have left, I don’t have to measure fuel for dinner each night, I haven’t accidentally used denatured to make my meal instead of water (belive it, I’ve seen it). I really like the esbit.
NITRO

[Douglas Frick]

>I have noticed that it doesn’t seem to burn as hot when relit

I’m curious about how people burn Esbit. I thought the tablet burned better when it had some air underneath it, so I made a stove from the bottom of a Pepsi can (inverted), cut a piece of 1cm welded wire to fit the bottom, and then cut a circle of screen-door mesh to lay on top of the welded wire. This allowed air underneath the tablet and kept the tablet from melting through the welded wire onto the can bottom.

Has anybody else tried this, or do you just set the tablet on the burner?

[Vick Hines]

I use a sorta pedistal made by folding an oval of oven liner. That serves also as a base to keep the Esbit off the landscape. Then I use a ring of gutter screen as the pot support. The pedestal makes the tablet easier to light and probably lets more air get to it. So, yeah, I think there are good reasons for using some kind of support.

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