Alcohol vs White Gas?

[Mike Clelland]

Alcohol vs White Gas?
================

If I do a LONG trip, WHITE GAS proves LIGHTER.
– and –
If I do a SHORT trip, ALCOHOL proves LIGHTER.

(but where is the cut off?)

Alcohol stoves are very LIGHT and use a slightly LARGER volume of fuel for heating (X amount) of water.

White gas stoves are HEAVY and use a SMALLER volume of fuel for heating (X amount) of water.

If you are on a short trip, the Alcohol stove is lighter. But, on a longer trip the White Gas stove proves to be lighter because the volume of fuel is less. The fuel is the deciding factor when factoring the total weight. This will off-set the extra weight of the stove itself (and aluminum fuel bottle).

I have played a little with this, but I don’t have a enough data for a verifiable answer.

My QUESTION:
============

What is the cut off of liters boiled when the weight of WHITE GAS proves to be a lighter system compared to ALCOHOL?

Our small amount of testing used a Trangia24 and an MSR WisperLight.

No good answers – YET!

Anyone out there tried to tackle this one???

peace,
M!

** end **

[Ryan Faulkner]

have you tried esbit for longer trips?

[paul johnson]

i understand why we talk about boiling (even if water purification is not the issue).

what about fuel consumption if water is heated to just 180 deg F. at 180 it’s WAY TOO hot to drink & is hot enough to rehydrate food (esp. if a cozy is used). even raw protein cooks at ~140deg F. BTW, those hot water dispenser’s that y’all might have seen connected to the kitchen faucet/plumbing. some models heat the water to ~180deg F, IIRC. dishwashers = ~180deg F. i only mention this in case anyone has any experience with these, they can relate to how hot 180deg F water is.

since the rate of heat xfr out of the water/pot/cup will increase as temp of water rises (whether alc. or gas is used), and also since alc. has, what…’bout half (???) the heat output of a white gas stove & so adds thermal energy slower than white gas to the pot/cup/water being heated, heating just to ~180 will prob. increase the “break-even” point b/t alc. & white gas.

just a thought to possibly keep in mind when determining the “break-even” point b/t alc. and other fuels.

[Vick Hines]

Mike,
Refer to Paul Johnson’s previous post regarding 180 F water. Really, the only reason we talk about boiling point when arguing over burners is that a rolling boil, in the absence of a calibrated thermometer or thermocouple is an honest gauge of temperature for comparison purposes. Yes, heating to only 180 would give the alcohol stoves an advantage because they need more fuel weight to get from 180 F to 212 F and boiling.

Now, to your question. Obviously, on your last day, walking to the trailhead, all fuel should be gone, and the only weight is the stove,etc. Just as obviously, the alcohol stove is way ahead of the game, but falls behind after its fuel weight + stove weight equals the fuel and stove weight of the gasoline rig. When this happens will depend on how much water you heat every day.

The only way to satisfy yourself as to which burner is better for you is to calculate this stuff yourself – You need this information: how much water you will heat each day; the weight of alcohol to bring that amount of water to your target temperature (boiling or less); the weight of gasoline needed to do the same exact job; the total weight of the alcohol burner and its necessary gear (pot support, wind screen, fuel bottle, fuel measure, etc); total weight of the Whisperlight and all its accessory gear, including repair kit. Then whip up a spread sheet that takes the total weight of each stove and its stuff and adds to that the weight of fuel used each day for a series of days from day 0 through day ‘n’. I stop the calculation on the day the 11 oz. MSR tank would run out.

I think of a day’s fuel as being the evening meal and breakfast. So one day out really means one night and morning. Also, when calculating gasoline stove fuel use, remember that starting the stove takes fuel and it runs inefficiencly for a little while, so an honest calculation of fuel needs is to restart the stove COLD for every test of the amount of water you characteristically heat.

[Vick Hines]

Ryan,
I have used Esbit for 9 months at a stretch – with resupply – and not doing a lot of cooking. It worked OK… light and reliable. I was able to get a bunch of army surplus hexamine tablets (the white ones in cardboard tubes, NOT the olive drab foil packs of trioxane) which are about 1/4 the size of Esbit brand tablets. Perfect for boiling 1 cup.

Frankly, I got really sick of the hexamine/Esbit smell. But that’s just me. Until it starts to gross YOU out, you might give it serious consideration as an alternative fuel.

What you need with Esbit is a good burner and pot support. BPL is bringing out a titanium folding wing stove… 1/2 oz. which beats the 1.3 oz. of the steel versions. But Esbit doesn’t need anything complicated. I fold expanded aluminum gutter screen into a ‘W’ with the ‘^’ in the middle flattened to hold an Esbit tab. The gap from the esbit tab to the pot or cup should be 1.25 to 1.5 inches. The ‘W’ is the pot support AND holds the Esbit tab off the surface so it gets plenty of air. However, you have to put a piece of foil under it because drips can burn whatever surface it is set on. With a foil windscreen the total will be about 0.8 oz. depending on your variations.

It takes 1/4 of an Esbit tab to heat or boil a cup of water – provided you have an efficient pot, wind screen and tab holder.

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