Make Your Own Gear: Silnylon Mountain Poncho

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

Make Your Own Gear: Silnylon Mountain Poncho

[Roleigh Martin]

William, thanks for the link. It would be really cool if Roger has seen this pattern and would comment. Roger, have you?

I note that in silnylon, it only weighs 7.5 oz, which is about the weight that Roger's weighs too.

[Dana S]

I'm very interested in buying/making one of these two designs and wondered what Roger thought of the Parcho as well.

Also, Roger, you said your standard pattern will fit up to 6'7" person in the instructions. I'm 6'2" and worry about the arm length. Think i'll be ok? I have a 35/36" sleeve length.

I can always just increase the length of the sleeve design, but it'd be nice not to make two jackets if possible. Thanks!

– Dana

[Roger Caffin]

The Quest Parcho looks very much like my Poncho or a bit like CedarTree's Packa. I hesitate to say it is a copy of my design as I have not seen the actual pattern, but it sure looks close. Very close!

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

The MLD Cuben poncho has significant differences from my poncho. As far as I can see, the MLD one has no sewing down the sides: it can be opened right out into a flat tarp. There are plenty of similar ones on the market – Oware has one, and I suspect Bill Fornshell may have also made something like this :-)

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Dana

> I have a 35/36" sleeve length.
I have some trouble imagining this arm length! From my NECK to my cuff is 650 mm or 26". Anyhow, my recommendation (in the article) is fairly simple:
"If you have seriously long arms, you might want to compare the pattern length with your arms and maybe extend the pattern slightly. Stretch the 670 millimeters dimension, not the 320 millimeters one."
How much to add to the 670 mm length … your call! A bit of fiddling with a tape measure seems indicated.

> your standard pattern will fit up to 6'7" person in the instructions.
Well, not quite. What I wrote was:
"I am 5 foot 7 inches tall, and weigh 10 stone (1 stone equals 14 pounds). If you are 6 foot 7 inches tall, you might want to lengthen the edges of the main body."
So at 6' 2" you might want to consider extending the bottom edge of the poncho slightly. You could add 7" to the front and back perhaps.

Interested to hear how it goes.

Cheers

[Roleigh Martin]

Roger, I believe the shirt sleeve length is measured from the back of the neck to the wrist, not from the side of the neck. I found a page that confirms this.

http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Your-Neck-Size-and-Sleeve-Length

Also, it is not a straight line measurement but an angled measurement (see diagram). The range of normal lengths is from 32-37 inches (81,3 – 94 cm).

[Ron Moak]

For those interested, here's a little background on the Parcho/Packa designs. All three products, Parcho, Packa and Rogers perform similar tasks. That of providing full length rain protection and pack coverage in a single unit. Kind of and oversized rain jacket that can provide protection for the pack.

The Parcho was designed by Bill Gurwell who also came up with the Bilgy tent (see Quest Outfitters and Seattle Fabrics for Plans). I've known Bill over a decade and have seen early versions of the Parcho going back as far as 1997.

I've also come to know Ceader Tree pretty well over the last few years at various events. According to his website, his initial design for the Packa was done in 1999. I'm pretty sure Edward hadn't seen the Parcho when coming up with his design for the Packa. Only a relatively few people knew about Bill and his designs.

Bill approached me a few years ago to do a production version of the Parcho. Since Edward already had a patent, I declined as I had no interest in whatever patent issues would need to be resolved. I'm not a lawyer and hate paying for them. Instead, I finished the designs on the Gatewood Cape.

I don't know when Roger came out with his design, perhaps he'd be glad to enlighten us. One thing is clear, when there's a need to be filled, ingenuity will sprout from multiple sources.

Ron Moak

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Roleigh

I have seen all variations.
Sound as though longer arms need an extension anyhow.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

As Ron said:
> One thing is clear, when there's a need to be filled, ingenuity will sprout from multiple sources.
And often there are only so many variations possible. There will be convergence. It is always fun to see how this works out.

When did I come up with my design? Not sure. It sort of evolved for a while – like the others.

Thanks Ron for the information and the dates. Interesting.

Cheers

[al b]

The trekmates deluxe poncho looks a good half-way starting point, it is a poncho with arms, so only a front zip would need added, and perhaps the poncho shortened to jacket length.

[al b]

I think the same effect as these MYOG poncho/jacket (with sleeves) hybrids could be had by:

1) Make a (waterproof) double ventile cotton gilet, to wear underneath ruc-sac straps.

2) Cut a cheap breathable PU jacket off below the arms: this can be worn over rucsac straps etc when raining/windy. A elastic chest strap could be tightened when cold, otherwise it could left loose, for ventilation.
This could be attached to the gilet for when this 'arms element' is folded back, when it is not being worn.

This would seem able to mimic the effect of the poncho, minus its, ruc-sac cover duty, whilst (hopefully) billowing less in wind. It would also be more wearable when not carrying a ruc-sac.

This idea was inspired by the Paramo Third element jacket.
NB unfortunately this Paramo item's gilet has a non-waterproof section in the back,which to me, seems to limit its versatility.

[al b]

Double ventile gilet / arms element: has anybody tried this?
(as described above)

[al b]

On further thought I dont think a gilet could be sealed well enough at arms: so instead add plain nylon/polyester mesh short arms to double ventile body, to which standard wp breathable material can be hand-sewn: shortness should mean condensation no problem.

(I thought ventile arms might get stiff)

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Roleigh and all

No, I don't know of anyone who is making MY design commercially.

But you could a lot worse than to look at the Packa poncho if you want an off-the-shelf item. It is similar, albeit not exact. It has pit-zips, which I dislike, but many love. They are at http://www.thepacka.com I think.

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi All

Herewith a revised plan for the Storm Seal on the front of the poncho. I have just made a new one.

Explanation:
Long Black Lines: the poncho shell itself
Red Lines: Storm seal strips,65 & 155 mm wide
Green Lines: Reinforcing: double layers of 70 denier coated nylon
Short vertical black lines: sewing
Press-studs and Velcro as before

In the article I wrote that I don't bother to hem the edges of the silnylon. That works reasonably well for the old wet-look stuff, but the modern dry-finish stuff can benefit from having a hem if you want long life. So you will see that most edges are hemmed or encased.

The double layer of 70 denier nylon used as reinforcing is sufficient to give enough strength to the silnylon for the plastic press-studs (snaps), provided you treat the join with respect.

Seam-sealing: mostly by coating the hems on the outside with silicone sealant.

[Amy Reid]

I have been working on many projects this winter for an upcoming trip, one of the ones I was particularly excited to see the results of is this mountain poncho. I'm not much of a seamstress & time was limited, so I asked my mom if she'd be willing to give it a go. She, is a good seamstress. She and my dad, an engineer, struggled with understanding the instructions. I would have been helping but they're 8 hours away.

I must admit that when I sent the plans to her I'd read and re-read the hood piece and it mad NO sense to me, I was assured by a friend that it would make sense to my mom. I did eventually figure out the concept when my mom called me confused. Sadly, she's ran out of time before her own life caught up with her & won't be able to finish before my trip. Apparently she spent 6-8 hours on the hood yesterday. I guess this is just a warning that the 4-5 hours to construct listed on the article is for someone who fully understands the design and has probably constructed it a few times.

Does anyone know of a similar in weight commercial product that I can look at — I only have 3-4 weeks until my trip and I won't have time to take over the project.

[Jim Colten]

The Packa, perhaps?

[Amy Reid]

I was looking at the Packa earlier. Its the closest thing that I've found, but much heavier! I also noticed that Six Moon Designs has a Cape.

I'll still get the project done, it just probably won't make it on the JMT this time.

Thanks!

[John Frederick Anderson]

Hi,

Another manufacturer that makes something similar is Stephensons, who do a poncho with a pack cover for USD 63, according to their catalogue.

I haven't tried it myself- I use a Golite Poncho Tarp, or a raincoat and pack cover combination, or if very little rain is expected, an umbrella, which also doubles as a sun shade for the heat of the day.

cheers,
fred

[Henk Smees]

I think I have found a way to improve -although it’s excellent as it is- the design of Roger’s Silnylon Mountain Poncho (in two ways).

First: I needed to find something that could substitute my raingear/pack-cover and I think the Mountain Poncho -with some chaps- would be perfect do this, but, at the same moment, I wanted to find a way to close the wide open front of my tarp (GoLite Lair 1).

Second: The Velcro behind the storm flaps has the ‘bad habit’ to ‘creep’ shut (which can be dangerous, as Roger points out) and I think there’s a pretty easy way of solving this.

I’ve opened a new thread about this. I’ve called it the Parcho Tarp.

You might want to have a look:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=22725&skip_to_post=183561#183561 .

[Eddie Hinnant]

Thanks Ron, for your history. You are totally correct. I did have my idea in the Fall of 1999. Hiking in very cold weather and sweating led to the Packa idea for me.

I'm not sure exactly when I was made aware of Bill's Parcho. However, I believe I was patent pending with the Packa at the time, so somewhere around 2001-2002. I was able to contact Bill and we discussed our designs via email. He told me he was not pursing a patent, and based on his description, I felt the Parcho was significantly different anyway. I met Bill a couple times if memory serves correctly, once at Trail Days and once at a Gathering. After seeing the Parcho, I still think it does not infringe on the Packas patent. I don't know if you would still consider making some commercially for him, but I would not have a problem with it. Funny how we came up with similar names for our products.

As for Roger's design, based on what I've read here, I believe it different enough from the Packa too. The key difference in the Packa design, and the Parcho and Roger's is how the jacket is deployed. The Packa is worn as a packcover only at first and the jacket is deployed without removing your pack. I don't think the Parcho or Roger's works like this.

Cedar Tree

[BlackHatGuy]

Hi Eddie!

Let me know when you get the eVENT Packa's in!

Take care,

Doug

[Laurie Gibson]

I've made two ponchos following Roger's pattern. I used sew-on snaps (W. H. Collins Jumbo Nylon Snaps) approx. 1/2" in diameter and coated the threads with diluted Sil-Net while seam-sealing. The snaps seem sturdy enough. The ponchos in their stuff sacks weigh 5.75 and 6.25 ounces.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Eddie

> The Packa is worn as a packcover only at first and the jacket is deployed without removing
> your pack. I don't think the Parcho or Roger's works like this.

Mine certainly does work like this: it was a fundamental design requirement!
I did check the Packa patent, and my design does avoid the primary claims of the Packa. I forget the details.

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