Done in a Day

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

Done in a Day

[Andrew Browne]

Thanks Kevin
Checked out the ULA Relay but at 17oz, is there anything lighter that will put the pack weight on the hips rather than on the shoulders, that is available now.
Checked out the ULA website and it appears they are in hibernation until Dec 2008………..wrong time of the year on your side of the world for that I think
Regards
Andrew (Australia)

[Jonathan Ryan]

Hey Andrew,
alot of my hiking due to time contraints is DIAD as well. I have been using a Mountain Laural Designs Super Zip with great success. It is now called the Exodus and weights around 11-12 ounces. You can also add hip belt pockets as well as shoulder mounted water bottle holsters. It is a pretty sweet pack.

[John S.]

Tom, both calcium and magnesium are excreted by the kidneys, and the amounts excreted go up when they are present in excess. They are both also reabsorbed in the kidney when they need to be so that blood levels are kept normal.

Your cramping is not likely due to either of those minerals. However, if you have found something that seems to prevent them for you, I'd be inclined to keep doing it myself. Exercise-associated muscle cramping is not completely understood.

Kevin, my laboratory medicine textbook (Henry, 19th ed 1996..not latest edition) says this about calcium in sweat,

"estimates of the daily calcium excretion in sweat vary widely-from 15 mg to more than 100 mg. The loss can greatly exceed this range during extreme environmental conditions."

[Dave T]

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[Anonymous]

John and Kevin,
Thanks for the info. Maybe I'm experiencing the placebo effect, or maybe it's just my individual physiology at work. Either way, I'm enjoying the journey and the little byways it leads me into, like this one, in my quest to optimize my experience. Training, equipment, diet, physiology, and just the pure joy of being on the move in high places all rolled into one.
One more question for Kevin: The narrative and pictures in your article seem to indicate you do a lot up around the Kings Kern Divide and along the Great Western Divide. Me too. So, I'm wondering if your treat your water and, if so, with what and generally where(e.g. down in the Kern Canyon?, Tyndall Creek, etc).

[Connie Dodson]

Calcium and Magnesium are "lost" in urine, thus urinalysis testing for Ca Mg levels.

I like all four, as electrolyte balance is a "good thing"..but I do not compare myself to marathon runners, or that ilk. I know very well athletic adventurers use special intake rules.

I like Cytosport Cytomax Performance Drink, as directed, to prevent leg cramps if I need to power up a trail and get back out before the local grill closes ..the stuff moves lactic acid, or something, anyway it works!

I drink water.

I also drink more water two-three days ahead.

I am well-hydrated if I pee about every two hours or I can't pick up the skin on the back of my hand.

In the early days of mountaineering we had lemon drops candies to stimulate thirst to help us keep on drinking a little water.

I once had to rescue someone taking salt tablets.. please don't.

[Max Hoagland]

So I don't have access to this article, nor am I planning on getting it, but I was wondering why you would have to bring cooking gear and a 2100 CI pack. The longest day I've ever done was a 20-30 mile ridge traverse in the Wasatch mountains which lasted about 10 hours, or maybe a 12 hour hike in the desert.

Why bring all that gear to sleep a mile in if you could just hike that mile in 15 minutes the following morning?

But I only had a few liters of water, an insulating layer, a rain layer, water purification, and a load of food, which all could have fit in a <1000 CI pack. Something here doesn't seem very lightweight…

[jim bailey]

Max,
The reason Jonathan and I did this was due to logistics. We both had to drive 2+ hours to get to the trail head. Figured it best to drive up straight from work on Friday night, sleep out on the trail and get an early start Saturday then spend as much time hiking as possible. We also liked the idea of carrying a minimal sleep set up in case we decided to stay out longer which I chose to do.

Our packs for this trip each weighted around 12-13lbs which included gear, 100 oz of water and food, we had a dry section of ridge line for 16 miles that required us to pack that amount of water.

Hope this clears things up.

[Max Hoagland]

I just don't think that that is a very lightweight way of hiking. I'm not saying I dislike that style of hiking, and I have turned hikes that could have been done in a day into overnighters. But think if the situation was reversed – you plan out a loop, you drive to the trailhead put on your 10 pound pack, hike for 10 hours, then that night, sleeping a mile away from your car. You think "Oui! Why did I hike all that way with this stuff – I could have left it at the car!"

How is this different then lightweight car camping, but carrying all your stuff with you everywhere you go?

I don't have anything against this style, I'm just wondering if it is benefiting my pack weight somehow.

[Huzefa @ Blue Bolt Gear]

Hi Jim,

I with Max. You could have returned early in the morning and left your sleeping gear in your car. For long mileage hikes even a few pounds less on your back makes a quite a difference in comfort in my experience.

[Jonathan Ryan]

hey guys,
the point of carrying a sleep system on a big route is safty in the event you cannot make it back to your car. The route we had planned on doing was 32 miles and we were not sure how far we would make it. I have attempted it several times on a single day push with just a hydartion pack and it always required a long and tiring hike out when I could have saftly spent the night out. But there also comes a point that carrying an SUL sleep system is not going to add a tremendous amount of weight to slow you down that much. Either way to each there own, everyones hiking style can be explained by their past experiences.

[Chris Townsend]

I'd like to put a different perspective on this. I often do short trips where I walk in for a few hours one evening, camp then have a full day out before returning home. The main reason I do this is for the pleasure of camping in beautiful wild places. I could usually do the whole route in one day id I wanted but I would then miss the evening and the camp. Just a few weeks ago I did this, walking in to a magnificent high level camp and then climbing some summits the next day before descending to the road. The walk-in was 5 miles but my camp was only a half mile from the road though 3000 feet above it – I chose the walk in for the quality of the route rather than the distance. The evening light as I walked in was wonderful and the views from the camp spectacular. The weather changed during the night and I woke to thick mist and heavy rain. As I was already high up I climbed the two major summits on the hill then descended back to the car. The rain continued all day and I was back at the car after only 4 hours. My total walking time for the trip was only 7.5 hours so I could easily have done it in a day. However the highlight was the sunset and the camp so I was happy to carry the extra weight of camping gear.

[todd]

I'm w/Chris.

A few years ago on a section hike of the Foothills Trail in SC, we basically did the same thing. Just bedding down in a pretty spot w/ a creek swishing by was worth the weight.

It didn't matter that it was only 45 minutes away from the road. It didn't matter that the mileage gained that night was almost nil. We were OUT THERE, man!

Todd

[Roger Caffin]

Faster is not always better.

[Max Hoagland]

Chris, I have also done that and had a great time. However, I did not take my sleeping bag, stove, shelter, etc, up to the peaks with me.

This is where I'm confused….

I do however, understand the concept of bringing your gear for safety, although the number one plan for LNT is Plan ahead and prepare/ know your limitations. I think if you have your route planned out well enough, and know your limitations, you will not have to risk safety. Do you guys agree?

[Chris Townsend]

Max, I agree. I often go out for long days without carrying overnight gear other than light emergency items such as a bivy bag and spare clothing. However I also like to camp and I'm prepared to carry the gear to do this even if I could do the walk in a day without it.

[jim bailey]

Sorry for the delayed response,
was just out hiking/camping and enjoying being out in the mountains of NH. Chris, I like your style!

As Jonathan mentioned safety was a concern for carrying our sleeping gear, in one of our correspondences dedicated to what we would carry, we mutually agreed on gear for navigation and sleeping only, clothing worn while hiking and first aid/footcare items, no stoves, cookware or other non essential camping equipment.

The route we chose also had serious elevation gain and loss so we were not sure exactly where our bodies might decide to possibly give out & how close the nearest road would be. NH is starting to crack down on hiker search & rescue with it’s Negligent Hiker Act which would charge an individual $15,000 for any evacuation where the involved party was considered unprepared/negligent. 2lbs in sleeping gear could have saved us some serious coin in case things went wrong with a route that was pushing us pretty hard physically.

Earlier this year we had a series of 7 SARs within a 3 week window, tragically with one unprepared day hiker losing his life on the third peak we crossed that day, have learned with experience and time to respect our unpredictable mountains and be ready for the worst (with pretty light or minimal gear) even if the forecast tells otherwise.

[Sam Haraldson]

I planned a 20+ mile route for this past weekend, part of which was a summit attempt and the crossing of an off-trail pass of unknown quality. I could only retrieve so much beta for this route since it is in a less-traveled area.

I wanted to do the loop in one day but not having control over weather, not knowing the timing needed to summit the peak and not knowing for certain whether the off-trail section to cross into the next drainage was even passable I had to plan for the possibility of spending the night out there in the event I had to backtrack.

Even with these unknowns I had still planned when I expected to reach each of the tertiary destinations, knew when sunset was, knew my abilities, et al. All of these things came nicely together and I hit my times +/- 30 min. and was back at the trailhead two hours before dark.

Other reasons for carrying safety gear with me on a hike is for the training element of it. I consider all hikes training for my future excursions. Winter is approaching here and I'll be forced to carry extra pounds of insulation so carrying extra pounds now will only help build me for what is to come.

*note – This weekend I was especially glad I got the hike DIAD because peering up at the socked-in mountains from the comfort of the coffee shop this morning I can see fresh snow… then again maybe it would have been nice to wake up to a couple fresh inches on the first day of September… oh well.

[George Matthews]

Other reasons for carrying safety gear with me on a hike is for the training element of it. I consider all hikes training for my future excursions. Winter is approaching here and I'll be forced to carry extra pounds of insulation so carrying extra pounds now will only help build me for what is to come.

Good idea. I'm implementing that starting next hike. Thanks Sam.

[Roger Caffin]

> I think if you have your route planned out well enough, and know your limitations, you will not have to risk safety. Do you guys agree?

NOPE.
The weather changes.

Cheers

[Jonathan Ryan]

I agree with Roger, but would also like to add even if you are in good shape and think you understand your limitations, variables can change to fast on a long route. For instance on my most recent trip I started my 6th and last mtn of the day feeling great and ready to push a finish on the whole route. By the time I reached the base of the other side of the peak I was physically finished for the day. Needless to say considering how I felt when I started the climb, I was very surprised at how quickly I bonked on energy.

But on the other hand if you are confident with your chosen route and escape back to your car is easy, I can understand not wanting to take as much gear.

[Chris Townsend]

> I think if you have your route planned out well enough, and know your limitations, you will not have to risk safety. Do you guys agree?

>NOPE.
The weather changes.

I always plan on the weather changing. In the Scottish Highlands it often does several times a day. My day hiking kit always includes rain clothing and I always carry enough gear that should mean I would survive a night out – survive that is, not be comfortable or expect much sleep. In summer this just means a light fleece top and a light bivi bag (often a plastic or foil bag). In winter it means an insulated jacket, long underwear, spare socks, spare hat, spare gloves, short foam pad, stove/pot or insulated flask with hot drink and extra food.

[Douglas Frick]

I generally drink plain water during the day, unless over 5L. At night I take a liter to bed with me to rehydrate during the night. I add a packet of Alacer ElectroMIX (0.017 oz) to replenish electrolytes and motivate me to drink up. (Alacer is the maker of Emer'gen-C.) It has a slight lime flavor, and avoids the weight of sugar common to most dry sports mixes. I haven't had leg cramps since I started using it.

calories: 0; sugar: 0; artificial sweeteners: 0!; potassium: 100mg; calcium 25mg; magnesium 30mg; manganese 0.5mg; chromium 5mcg

If I need to get kids to drink enough water (sometimes a problem) I carry True Lime from http://www.truelemon.com. One packet (0.006 oz) in a liter perks the flavor right up. No artificial sweeteners, just a bit of lactose and maltodextrin.

Both of these are UL: 10 packets of ElectroMIX and 5 of True Lime total only 2 oz.

[George Matthews]

This may sound counter-intuitive, but you don't need to drink too much water. I've learned this over the last few years after giving much thought to the volume flowing in and more importantly flowing out.

I confess that it is wonderful peeing in the wild, but if your pee a L after you drink a L, then you're saturated. Also, I sleep through the night if I watch my water intake later in the day.

This conservative drinking scheme is probably not for everybody, but it might be worth trying if you find yourself marking the trail like a roaming hound.

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