Backpacking Light’s New Thorofare Collection

[Lynn Tramper]

OK, in my experience it doesn't matter what fabric I wear underneath a bacpack's pressure points. I'm gonna sweat and it won't be able to evaporate. I don't see how any fabric can alter that. So I guess my question is really "how does the Thorofare fabric compare to other fabrics under the same conditions".

I have begum my alterations on my Thorofare clothing. I have chopped the sleeves off the shirt to make it a short-sleeved shirt, removed a few snaps, and started on a second (right) chest pocket from the scraps. The care instructions claim you can iron with a cool iron…but I have cranked my iron all the way up to full and the fabric still hasn't melted. I tried a tear test-almost impossible to tear. I gave the fabric a head star by creating a small cut with scissors before tearing, and this time I was able to tear the fabric, but it took a lot of grunt. This stuff is tough. I gave it the faucet test, and under a constant stream of water it managed to completely shed the water for a full five minutes. I stood in front of fan (with merino base layer on), and it seemed to do a pretty good job of blocking the wind. So it looks all good except for field tesing (which is everything really). Breathability and overall comfort will be the bottom line now.

[Lynn Tramper]

Ooops…browser problem

[Kerry Rodgers]

Hi Allison,

How did you get the snaps off? Were you able to do it without damaging the fabric?

I'm sewing-challenged, so sorry if these are dumb questions.
–kerry

[Lynn Tramper]

Kerry, it's by no means an obvious or normal thing to know how to remove snaps. Most people have trouble putting snaps ON!

I used a pair of very sharp scissors. Best to practice first on a snap you don't need (like one of the cuff snaps). A pair of pliers or even your teeth would also work. You can either pry them off or literally cut them off (the plastic is pretty soft). Just make sure the force is applied away from the fabric so you don't accidentally cut it. And best to work on the inside of the fabric so if you screw up it won't show!!! Even done perfectly, there will still be a small hole. As far as I can tell, the fabric doesn't unravel or tear, so the holes shouldn't enlarge any more or need patching. With the sleeves shortened to above elbow and excess snaps removed, plus another chest pocket added, my size large weighs in at 103 grams (3.6 oz)!!! Man that's light.

[Bill Fornshell]

Shirt Test #3 with pack – GG G6

I just got back from my first walk today.

The temperature was 92 degrees (F). Humidity was 60%.

The shirt gained 0.42 of an ounce. The shirt again "Wet Out" every place the pack touched it. Today I had a little sweat run down to the fingers of my left arm. Also like yesterday my back sweat so much it ran around to the front of my body and to the waist band on my running shorts. If I had the shirt tail tucked into my hiking shorts I am sure the sweat would have wet them also.

The base weight of my shirt is 4.86 ounces.

This was only a 40 minute – 2 mile walk.

[Bill Fornshell]

Tonight I decide to just wear the new shirt and leave my pack at home.

It was 8pm.
temp of 86.
humidity 68.

Just got back with a damp shirt. The shirt gained 0.15 of an ounce.

The other day in the sun (100 degrees, 40% humidity) but with a lower humidity and wearing my External Frame Pack the shirt gained 0.14 of an ounce.

Tomorrow I will wear one of my ExOfficio Air-something poly blend shirt with the GG – G6 pack and compare it to the new BPL Shirt. I think I already know that I will never say which one of my Thorofare shirts should I wear on this hike. It is not likely I will ever buy a second one of these.

I really like the material but I wonder how much testing in hot weather anyone did before they picked the material for the shirt and pants. You can't blame the material for the poor material pick of the design team.

I wonder where the Thorofare items will do well or if they become the latest BPL.com's "Edsel".

[CW]

I think they'd be ok in cooler temps or maybe even areas of low humidity during summer.

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Chris,

I hope we find an area where this stuff works.

Ryan J. said he was going someplace cold last weekend to see how the new things worked in the cold, but we haven't heard anything from that yet. In fact we haven't heard anything from BPL.com about any "wear" testing of this new stuff.

Are we the tester (unpaid) for a product that is now on the market.

Wal-Mart sells some things that work as good as the new Thorofare stuff has so far and are a whole lot cheaper.

[CW]

I'd like to know how it did in the colder temps as well.

I'm ok with being an unpaid gear tester since I'm an early adopter and/or beta tester in my current job anyway. It's not a big deal for me but I could definitely see the issue for others.

[Christopher Plesko]

Frankly the pants seem much better suited for the fabric if it's tough enough but I'm waiting for more impressions.

[Bill Fornshell]

I want to correct a comment I have made several times. I used the term "wet out" and should have said that the inside of the fabric was very wet. As wet as if I had poured water on it.

The outside of the fabric was not wet. I just poured some water on the outside of my shirt and the water just ran off.

[Troy Meadows]

Finished a 20 mile overnighter in the shinningrock wilderness this week. Loved the pants and the shirt. Temps in the upper 80s not sure about the humidity but guessing around 60percent my back did get pritty wet from my Curcit but that was eleviated by loosing the stays so the pack didn't rest on my back. By the way the shirt dryed in muinutes after doing this. But one problem was that I noticed a little bit of pileing on the pants near my rear. Not sure if it was from bushwaching through blueberry bushes or sleeping in them. This makes me wonder a little about duribility but will just have to wait and see. I going out again for 2nights in a couple of days. All in all I stayed cool and comfythrough my hike.

[Lynn Tramper]

Two more things I've noticed are
a) The water really does run off this fabric. I out it under a running cold faucet for five minutes without any sign of water penetration

b) Cold!!! Last night I wore it over a light merino base layer, and honestly, wherever the fabric touched the merino I could feel the cold. It's almost as if the shirt is sucking the heat away!?? This was sitting around doing nothing (temps around 12 C, humidity unknown). Maybe it works better if you're active? Strange stuff…

[Bill Fornshell]

Someone suggested that I compare the Thorofare Shirt with some other hiking shirts and maybe a "wind shirt".

I have several Exoficio Air Strip shirts so this afternoon I worn one of them on a 2 mile – 40 minute walk today.

====
Time – 4:15 pm
Temp – 91 degrees (F)
Hum – 48%

Pack worn – GG G6

Shirt Worn – ExOficio Air Strip Shirt.
Shirt Dry – 286 grams – 10.09 ounces.
Shirt weight after 40 minutes and 2 mile walk – 325.5 grams / 11.48 ounces.

The ExOficio Shirt gained 1.39 ounces.

The ExOficio shirt material were the pack touched it "wet-out". The material was completely wet inside and out. However, my sweat was absorbed into the material so it did not run down my body or my arms.

I also did not feel as hot in the ExOficio Shirt as I did when I wore the G6 pack with the Thorofare Shirt yesterday.

What does any of this mean – at this point I don't have a clue.
=====
Thorofare Shirt and my External Frame Pack:

If I use my MYOG – External Frame and Cuben Pack Bag with my "air-pillows" attached I have a nice window for air to blow between me and the pack bag. This has demonstrated to work very well with my Thorofare Shirt and lets the "secret" material do what it was designed to do.

===

If I was going to use my GG – G6 or one of my Cuben Packs I would do at least two things:

1. Redesign the packs to reduce the amount of area that touches the shirt and try to design an "air-pillow" for them.

2. Redesign the Thorofare Shirt to add several venting options and make it into a pullover.

Since I want to do more Sub 2 / 3 pound hiking I will do both of the above. To get to that lower weight I have to go with one of my very light Cuben packs.

[Lynn Tramper]

Bill, I have fallen in love with the Vaude AiroFlex system of pack support and ventilation. You've got me thinking that maybe I should make an MYOG based around this frame….nothing to do with Thorofare clothing…

[Bill Fornshell]

Hi Allison,

First, I think it is great that you are thinking about doing a MYOG – project using the best features of your Vaude AiroFlex Pack.

The fact that we have to do things like modify our backpacks and modify the design of our Thorofare shirt and pants so we can wear them in hot weather is a little sad.

At the same time I think it is very sad that we received no real information about using the new Thorofare Shirt and Pants in hot weather. What does the comment – "the Thorofare Collection has been optimized for hiking in hot weather" really mean? The fact that we have to do things like modify our backpacks and modify our shirt and pants so we can wear them the Thorofare Shirt in the hot weather is a little sad.

I put on my Thorofare Shirt and Pants about 12 pm – noon here. I was going to go outside under an arbor – in the shade (88 degrees (F) and 54% hum) and cut some pink house foam to make a mold for my new "air-pillow".

I wore the new shirt and pants to see if mosquitoes would bite me through the material. The many mosquitoes – we have had a bit of rain the last few days and it seems to have increased by a large amount the numbers of mosquitoes we now have, would get a chance at me.

I was outside about an hour and while I saw many mosquitoes looking me over none seemed to bite me.

One very alarming thing that did happen was the amount of sweating I was doing. The shirt and waist band of the pant got WET on the inside. I really wasn't doing that much work and it sort of shocked me. I weighed both the shirt and pants when I was finished. The shirt gained 3 grams. You might say that isn't much but the shirt was wet in places. When I took my first 2 mile – 40 minute walk in the new stuff (100 degrees (F) direct sun a lot) the shirt gained 6 grams and did not get wet.

====

The Thorofare Shirt does not work in hot weather with the more or less standard internal frame pack or a pack that lays on your back. Where ever the pack, shoulder straps and or hip belt touch the Shirt material will get very wet on the inside and cause your sweat to run down hill. This can be down your arm or it can be to the waist band of what ever kind of pants you might have on.

If you are thinking about buying the shirt and you use the type of pack I mention above I would read all the above comments or wait for more testing.

====

[John S.]

So far it's been determined that the Thorofare fabric 1) has low water absorption, 2) is bug proof, 3) has rapid drying time, and 4) is wind resistant. Wow. Just like the description at the top of the thread states.

The research has also shown that you may sweat when hiking or working in 80-90-100 degree Texas summer weather. Another revelation. Keep up the good work guys!!!

[Lynn Tramper]

Hey John, you forgot to mention how light and water resistant it is!

Seriously, what we are really doing here is comparing these garments to stuff we have used in similar situations. So my other observation about "plasticky, noisy, large snaps, cold on the skin (in cold weather) are not in disagreement with the stated niche for these clothes, just additional info. Likewise I'm sure anyone who has ever exercised in hot weather realizes you will sweat! Good hot weather clothing probably needs to have adequate venting, good ariflow through the weave, and maybe quick drying (I say maybe because one of the nicest ways to keep cool is to have some moisture evaporating off your body…dry is not always cool). Personally I can't see how a garment can be both 'wind resistant' AND cool summer wear. It's an oxymoron. Also, to state that soemthing has both low water absorption AND is quick drying also is kinda lame. Anything that has low water absorption (including I'm sure many windshells and rain jackets) will like-wise be quick drying, but this does not make them comortable to wear in hot weather.

Honestly, my two favourite fabrics for sticky summer weather are cotton and silk. Not quick drying, but works well BECAUSE they absorb lots of water and have a loose air-permeable weave! They also happen to be very quiet…Maybe not so good against mozzies depending on the thickness of the fabric. I think people are expecting too much from this fabric. I think this is definitely due in part to the advertising that says it's optimised for hot weather. It didn't say it was COMFORTABLE in hot weather. It's light, it's insect proof, it's wind and water resistant. These are undebatable. My impression is that the fabric is not very comfortable in cold weather either, unless it's worn as a windshirt. The closest I can get to describing the feeling against my skin in the cold is just like wearing a windshirt as a base layer. At least it's low water absorption/quick drying abilities and wind resistance would be an advantage in colder weather rather than a disadvantage.

[Ken Morrison]

I recently acquired a set of Thorofare shirts/pants and immediately took them on a four-day backpacking trek in northern Minnesota accompanied by my intrepid wife. The weather report called for very warm weather and the “trails” there are minimally maintained so I knew we would be in for much forcing our way through brushy overgrown trails, many passages over, around, under or through downed timber and occasional periods of desperate bushwacking after losing the trail. I also wanted to minimize clothing since I always carry too much. The trekking pants/shirt were intended to protect me from sun and mosquitos while holding up to the rigors of rocks and brush and additionally replace a windshirt/pants for cooler nights and mornings. Daytime temperatures were in the mid-eighties and the first two nights dipped into the thirties. The trail was wonderfully horrible as expected. The trekking shirt/pants held up well to the trail abuse except for some piling on the shins area of the pants. They were quite comfortable with merino wool base layer on the cooler evenings and mornings. The material is surprisingly comfortable when worn next-to-skin. I liked being able to roll and unroll the sleeves and unsnap the front for more ventilation. I will admit the shirt was thoroughly drenched with sweat the last day when the winds tapered off and we spent more time exposed to the sun on rocky ridges. I can’t say I perspired more than I would have in a MountainHardware Duration t-shirt (my usual hot weather favorite) but sweat certainly did not dissipate as rapidly. On the other hand, the trekking shirt protected me from sun, bugs and scratches better. It also dried quickly when removed at breaks or conditions ameliorated. Furthermore, it never felt clammy nor took on a rank odor. I also wonder if I would have been cooler in the sun with a desert tan shirt rather than the much darker sepia I bought for aesthetic reasons. If I was to make repeat this trip, I would not hesitate to wear the Thorofare clothing again.

[Jason Shaffer]

Sorry for the long narrative post everyone. I could condense this into something more data-oriented, but I thought I should keep it experiential. Hope this helps someone.

GENERAL
Thorofare Shirt in desert tan. Tested on 6 dayhikes plus an overnighter in a wide range of weather, all in PA from 8/30 to 9/10. (Not bad living!) In most cases I wore the shirt next-to-skin, untucked, with the sleeves rolled up. I wore the Outdoor Research Sun Runner Hat and Cloudveil Rodeo Pants (10 oz, made from Inertia fabric, a thinnish stretchwoven). Other shirts used in similar situations: Railriders Eco Mesh Shirt (6.8 oz). Icebreaker 200 S/S & 260 L/S Shirts (7-9 oz). Patagonia Houdini (3.36 oz, modified) w/ fresh DWR. Montane Lite-Speed (5.5 oz) w/ DWR washed out. Until now I’ve used the Eco-Mesh shirt anytime temps were too hot for merino (for me most anything above 60°F in direct sun). The Eco-mesh isn't always ideal for temps that cool with wind and rain, but in hot dry conditions I've been really happy with it.

For all tests I carried a McHale Subpop (backpad removed) w/ 8-20 lbs. I kept the pack riding away from my back and adjusted the weight onto my hips to allow some airspace under the shoulder straps.

TESTING NOTES
6 long dayhikes (separate days):
82-90°F, moderate to very high humidity, direct sun, some winds depending on the day, some mosquito pressure, moderate pace. Towards 90°F the shirt did begin to feel a bit stuffy, slightly more than the Eco-Mesh in similar weather. I almost always kept the front unsnapped halfway. Later I pulled the front hem out from under my hipbelt, letting the front of the shirt billow out for increased airflow. I stayed very comfortable this way, but these adjustments were key. I managed to mitigate sweat very well, everywhere except the middle back where airflow was poorer. I get this with the Eco-Mesh too. In the Thorofare I think it was due to high humidity rather than temperature per se. Mesh pit panels probably wouldn’t have helped much since I was sweat-free under my arms (but this was with sleeves rolled up). A mesh panel in the middle of my back would have done the trick. I did appreciate the wind-resistance more on the drier, breezier days (thanks Captain Obvious!). On another note, the collar of the Thorofare seals up better under a headnet than the Eco-Mesh or a crew neck shirt.

Early morning hike / thunderstorm:
62-67°F, 94% humidity. The hike began at 5:30am with light drizzle, breeze and fog. I was exceptionally comfortable in just the Thorofare Shirt. The fabric shed drizzle ridiculously well for a “hot weather shirt” and still felt dry on the inside. Then the skies opened up with torrential rain, lightening, and 40mph winds at 60-66°F ambient air temp. I was in a wide open location and basically got a serious smackdown. I wore the shirt under a prototype silnylon rain cape. I rolled the sleeves down for warmth and to protect from the stinging rain. The forearms wetted out after a couple of minutes but I remained comfortable hiking at a brisk pace in extremely hard rain for 30 minutes or so. For the last 15 minutes of my hike I took off my rain cape and let myself get completely saturated head to toe. I’ll spare the predictable details of my dry test: this fabric dries wicked-fast.

Overnight trip / colder conditions:
48-70°F while hiking, high humidity, no rain and a bit of a breeze. At 48°F (no direct sun yet) I started out by throwing the Thorofare over the Icebreaker S/S shirt I slept in. I overheated before temps hit 50°F. This was at a moderate pace on easy terrain. In retrospect, I should have just started out with the Thorofare next-to-skin at 48°F, keeping the sleeves down and adding a powerstretch balaclava until I warmed up. Given that temperatures were only going to rise, I would have been perfectly comfortable. Then again, I prefer to keep my torso layers thin and supplement with headwear and gloves more often – less taking off the backpack to fuss with layers. Contrary to what another poster suggested, worn next to skin there is no comparison between the Thorofare and a DWR windshirt. I couldn’t understand that criticism. The Thorofare is far more comfortable against bare skin at any temperature. The feel was fine to me when it was brand new, but if you hike in it for awhile and/or wash it, it will soften up noticeably.

IMPRESSIONS:
For something like a thru-hike on the PCT, CDT and at least the Northern AT, the Thorofare Shirt seems like an extremely useful piece of kit. It rivals the versatility of a windshirt over a range of temperatures warmer than those in which a merino+windshirt combo excels. If hiking temps are consistently above 50°F (wet or dry) a DWR windshirt is usually too stuffy for me. For 45-90°F in the mountains with the potential for variable weather, direct sun, bug pressure, and wind I’d lean towards the Thorofare over the Eco-Mesh Shirt for the versatility. Even 95°F dry heat should be decent for me in the Thorofare w/ all available ventilation adjustments. The Thorofare fabric is a stretchwoven however, so I would not expect total comfort at 100°F and intense humidity. (Comfort seems to suffer due to high humidity much more than due to temperature.) The keyword here is ‘versatility’ – the fabric doesn't exactly strike me as a specialist item 'optimized for hot weather'.

I might consider a large mesh panel in the middle of the back. That or mesh pit panels might help me keep the sleeves rolled down more often in intense sun too. With one or both of those mods I could safely retire my white Eco-Mesh Shirt for pirate-themed Halloween parties only.

Below 45°F or so I expect a merino+Thorofare combo (w/ hat and stretch balaclava when needed) to strike a workable balance between breathability and weather-resistance for hiking in drier conditions. I should be able to test this combo in the low 40s on 2-3 longer trips in the coming weeks. For wet weather or strong winds in colder weather I would still revert to a DWR windshirt though.

Overall the Thorofare looks to be a good all-around shirt for the majority of summer conditions I face or plan to face. So far I like it.

[Lynn Tramper]

Jason, thanks for the thorough review. That's another vote for the fabric. Are you considereing getting the trousers too?

>I almost always kept the front unsnapped halfway

This is not something I would consider if anyone else was likely to be around! Ergo, I don't like or need snaps. Maybe this would be of use to women who wear bras or other undergarments, but in hot weather it makes no sense to me to wear such an extra layer. Without other ventilation options, I'm not sure how I will go, but I await warmer weather to find out. I'm the one who said I didn't like the feel against my skin. Maybe I have a nicer feeling windshirt!

I am off for a few days skiing where I hope to test both top and bottoms in a range of spring ski conditions. I'll no doubt have more to report after that.

[Jason Shaffer]

Allison, I think we’re in agreement that the design could be tweaked. And wow, yeah, I didn’t think of modesty re: unsnapping the front. I’d overheat a lot more quickly that way.

The trousers: I’d consider them for a big trip if light weight trumped durability. My shirt has held up fine to some bushwacking. But pack parts can abrade the fabric. It only took one long dayhike with the optional mesh/foam backpad on my pack to pill a decent-sized spot in the back of shirt. This wasn’t an issue with the backpad removed, which I prefer anyway. Durability aside, the fabric might be a better match for pants than shirt.

What I’d really like to see now is a comparison between this and the RR Regulator Shirt (9.7). The latter has pit zips as well as a back vent.

[Bill Fornshell]

San Antonio had an overnight low of 58 (F) this morning. That was a nice surprise. Tomorrow is going to be 58 also. I may get out my Cuben Hammock and sleep out in it tonight wearing the shirt and pants.

I decided to take a walk before it warmed up.

Temp – 70 degrees (F).
Hum – 31%

Pack – Newest version of my External Frame and stock Harrier pack bag with about 15 pounds in the pack bag.

Overcast with a nice breeze blowing.

I decided to wear the shirt tucked into the pants.

This version of my new frame sits back away from my back a bit so I got a good amount of breeze between my back and the pack bag. At this temperature and my new External Frame everything was fine.

When checking things after I got back home the only wet place was the shirt tail where the waist band of my pants pressed against it.

I did find a funny place on the front of the shirt where it looks like the shoulder strap embossed its thread pattern into the fabric. I wet the fabric a bit and rubbed out the thread pattern marks.

[Lynn Tramper]

I have finally found conditions that really suit this fabric….spring snowboarding! Wearing nothing but the (shortsleeve) shirt under a windshirt, and pants by themself, I was not only comfortable in a range of spring snow conditions, but my bottom stayed dry even after all that sitting around in slushy snow. There is some pilling just showing on the shirt (I think it's where the car seatbelt rubbed on the drive up), but no sign of wear on the pants which took the brunt of abuse. Temps were ~15C in the shade, 25C in the sun, winds varying from still in the morning to very gusty by afternoon.

Oh yeah, like everyone else mentions, this stuff drys faster than anything I've seen. But I did have a few times when sweat was rolling down me under the shirt. Since I also had a windshirt on, it's hard to know which fabric wasn't breathing as well as it could.

[Kathleen B]

Allison – do the guy pants fit ok? Enough room in the hips, not too saggy baggy in the waist, not miles too long?

[Author]

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