Cougar Perimeter Fence or other ideas

[paul johnson]

So, Kevin, you seem to have some (small?) amount of experience. In that one particular case, your dog (what 40-60lb range???) didn’t seem to be a Cougar lure. What’s your impression of one 75lb dog as a potential deterent? a 100lb dog? a larger dog? How did your pooch take notice of the Cougar? i would guess that the Cougar wasn’t stalking your dog, right?, or wrong?

[kevin davidson]

“Clea” is a genius 10 yr.old 50 pound wonderdog. I live on what is best described as a wildlife corridor near a major creek. Many animals pass through including the lions major prey animal–deer (and my garden’s bane–the hoofed rodents!). One has to draw their own conclusions about the lion’s motives but I did not find any signs of any kills so either my dog aborted a stalk or it was also just passing through. My neighbors saw this event, I did not.

Ranchers and shepherds favor shepherd-type dogs for stock protection as well as other herd management chores ( my dog would be a CEO!) so perhaps one of those breeds might deter a cougar –if that’s what you feel you need. My dog is rather aggressive and can run rings around wildlife of all sizes, including deer and bear, and now it would seem, lion. But very sweet around people and does not chase bikes. She is the “beast” in my garden who keeps it clear of deer.

Although I sometimes bring my dog on backpacks, which she enjoys immensely, sometimes I don’t–to see more wildlife– or can’t—National Park restrictions.

[Craig Shelley]

Donald, The Black Ridge Wilderness does have a lot of cougar tracks. They are often very fresh prints. I see cougar tracks more often than I see the footprints of people.

I’m not paranoid about cougars. (My wife might be if I told her about the experience.) I do short backpacking trips into the Black Ridge Wilderness about twice a month all year long. I don’t plan on stopping this anytime soon.

This posting generated a lot more discussion than I would have expected.

I’m interested in practical ideas that will be lightweight. If you have practical experience in this area, please post.

Craig

[paul johnson]

Kevin,

thanks for the info.

so, it seems, based upon your experience, that what i have read a long time ago, and seen more recently on the “tellie” is a bit more correct (clearer) than that one point on the web page. namely, that a med to lg size dog could be a deterrent, but a smaller dog might be prey.

is this a fair statement as far as yours and your neighbors’ experience goes?

[kevin davidson]

PJ– I think that my 50 # highly intelligent and wildlife savvy dog could be considered a deterrant or at least an early warning system. Experience may vary , null where prohibited by law.

I think the only universals that could apply to travelling or living in cougar country are–
–don’t be stupid
–be aware of your surroundings
–educate yourself in cougar protection behavior

anything else is probably to heavy to carry, won’t work, give a false sense of security and will cause your UL Packer Card to be revoked.

And of course we have the random anonymous idiot posts such as the one that follows—but we can take anything they post as worth exactly nothing.

[Anonymous]

Your 50 # highly intelligent and wildlife savvy dog would more likely be an appetizer

[Dondo .]

Craig,

Now that you mention it, I have seen more cougar tracks in Black Ridge Canyons than in my usual stomping grounds. Maybe it’s because of the healthy population of bighorn sheep in the area. Your response Monday night is similar to what I would have done. I do own a can of pepper spray but very rarely take it with me. My only defense is a watchful alertness , a pair of trekking poles, and a willingness to fight like hell if jumped. And I take comfort in statistical probabilities.

[paul johnson]

Anon,

is this based upon some 1st or 2nd hand experience? something you’ve seen/read? it’s not that there is any doubt that a Cougar could kill even a 125lb dog, but would it want to take the chance? even a moderate injury to a limb incurred in the process might doom the big cat to starvation.

any thoughts Anon? i’d really like to learn something here from others’ experiences. thanks.

[J R]

In regard to “anons” post, such a statement is as highly variable as the dog itself.

Standard Poodles are incredably smart, and extremely aware… but they have no developed defense response other than to run. Most other dogs fall into this catagory too.

But there are some breeds who do NOT fall into that catagory. Many hounds, larger terriers, flock guards, many working class dogs, etc. I saw a 35lbs Staffordshire Terrier go lunging aganst his leash to get at a tame Siberian Tiger (yes, very odd situation, it was at an exotic pets show). The tiger was NOT happy to have this little ball of nasty trying to make dinner out of him. He showed his displeasure by getting as far away as possible and hissing.

My American Bulldog comes from Boar Hunting stock. His “Grandma” caught and tackled a 500lbs Russian boar. alone.

In a pitted fight, yes a couger (or a Sib tiger) could rip apart a little Staffie… And a Boar has more than enough nasty in it to crush a 90lbs dog…. But as the old saying goes, fortune favors the bold.

[kevin davidson]

Paul—it’s nice of you to try to draw out some of these anonymous posters but I really think they should be ignored, with extreme prejudice.I think the whole anon. option needs to be revoked. It’s become a distraction and a waste of bandwidth.

It would be nice to hear people who have actual experiences concerning their dogs with lions, tigers, and bears. Oh, yeah.

I would also like to hear more 1st hand experiences of people’s interactions/sightings of cougars. I’ve told my experiences on this thread and we have 1 or 2 others. Any one else?

[paul johnson]

Joe,

“fortes fortuna adiuvat” thanks for the reminder (lit. the brave/bold fortune favors, or as we/you normally say “fortune favors the brave/bold”).

Am. Bulldogs – very impressive breed. still some marked phenotypical/conformation variation (particularly in the shape of the head) amongst (blood) “lines” which is not a bad thing in this breed.

don’t forget to include some smaller terriers in the bold category. even my “large” 23lb Pug didn’t have the sense to know that to many large dogs he’s but a bit ‘o kibble. my Akita put up w/him hanging onto the loose skin & fur on his neck/throat shaking and growling (his feet clear off the ground) his extreme displeasure at having his paws stepped on. Pugs have short canines so he couldn’t even draw (visible?) blood on the Akita. however, other large dogs wouldn’t be so kind had my Pug attacked them. i used to pick him up and calm him so that he wouldn’t strain at the lease to get at any (large) male. no need to invite disaster and witness the inevitable outcome. he didn’t know the meaning of “discretion is the better part of valor”.

good post. thanks for the input.

[paul johnson]

Kevin,

out of respect for you, whose opinion i do highly value, i will do my best to cease fr/addressing Anons. (in my case, it’s prob. not much of a punishment; Anons prob. don’t want me to ask them my type of questions anyways) please, if in the future, i slip up (i’m quite absent-minded and may truly forget my pledge here), please post and remind me. i’m slow on the uptake, but will eventually catch on and remember not to reply.

thanks again, very much, for your 1st hand input. it agrees with much of what i’ve read/seen (on TV) for 40 or so yrs. wish that authoritative web page was a little clearer on the canine size deterrent issue. i’m going to read it again to make sure that i didn’t miss it (twice) previously.

>>”lions, tigers, and bears. Oh, yeah.”
yeah! i do like your wording. that is, as long as i’m not being stalked or attacked. very impressive animals. majestic creatures. too bad we can’t sign a mutual non-agression pact with them.

[J R]

“Am. Bulldogs – very impressive breed. still some marked phenotypical/conformation variation (particularly in the shape of the head) amongst (blood) “lines” which is not a bad thing in this breed.”

Yes, there are some major differences in the lines… Scott, Johnson, Williamson, Painter, and the totally “uncontrolled” lines of Old Southern Whites, plus any hybrid of the lines youd care to see. My boy is a Scott/Johson cross… but is built like a pure Scott. I dont notice the differences in the lines i the head so much, body type really catches my eye. Some of the lines almost seem so different as to be different breeds, but not quite just yet, just vary wide extremes on a scale of acceptability. Not that that matters much to me. Im all about performance… “breeds” dont count for much as far as Im concerned, and I firmly beleive kennel clubs have ruined more good breeds than war, famine, and sickness combined.

Good point on little dogs with big hearts. I havent spent much time with Pugs, but Ive seen Boston Terriers think they were part Mastiff, and Min-Pins who might as well have been born junkyard dogs. They had the same attitude.

[paul johnson]

Joe, I’m with you. Skip the Kennel Club “beauty contests”. Working/performance is the only real test of a Dog’s claim to its heritage. Obviously, we need to skip the “dog fighting” heritage (i.e., the practice of it), but the fighting breeds should still have the “heart of a Lion” and the agility and musculature to back it up.

Of course, a lapdog does serve it’s purpose too – as long as its breeding hasn’t ruined it’s health and temperment, thus making it unsuitable for fulfilling its heritage also. No poorly bred, poorly socialized, sickly, yappy, nippy lapdogs allowed. Alert barking – yes. Steady under a stranger’s petting/stroking – fine.

BTW, not all Pugs are as pugnacious as mine was. We rescued him from the dog pound when he was about a year old (my estimate based upon an examination of his front incisors cusps/ridges – “senior moment” – i’m forgetting the actual term, but you know what i mean, i’m sure), but based upon his temperment, i assume he was probably the Alpha Pup of the litter (for family dogs, the Alpha Pups rarely make the best pets; for some working purposes they excel, however). He was the hardest dog I ever owned to “house break”. What a little leg lifter he was! Persistence paid off and we had him for 14yrs. BTW, the “leg lifting”, that’s why he was sent to the pound, we were told by the Warden (and returned once by a prev. would be “rescuer”).

[larry savage]

One of the most fearless wilderness persons I know,mr. solo off trail,carries a little copy of Courage from Piglet. He’s even ripped the cover off to lighten it. Years ago I was hiking Waimea Canyon [the grand canyon of the pacific] and was warned about wild boars, after way too much time by myself the bushes began thrashing and I dropped my pack and scurried up a tree just in time for…a bunch of chickens to burst out. The mind is a dangerous thing.

[paul johnson]

did the same thing many yrs ago in a scrub palmetto swamp/thicket. wild pigs were known to be in the area and had been rather agressive. when something started moving quickly through the palms straight toward us, my bud and i took off. started running for the ONLY tree within 50yds. looked over my shoulder at one point and noticed the small nine-banded armadillo emerge from the scrub palmetto thicket. boy, did we have a good laugh.

[Dale Wambaugh]

The bear spray sounds good to me.
Make yourself big, noisy, throw rocks and sticks, and don’t run.

We were on Vancouver Island years ago and got a report of a 12 yo boy who was on the West Coast Trail and was medavac’ed out after a cougar got him from behind and grabbed him by his head. His father beat the cat with a stick and got it off the kid. The boy did survive with some skull punctures.

[Ryan Faulkner]

Ouch,

this is obviously why someone started this thread.

[paul johnson]

cougar perimeter fence? unlike a bear, can’t a cougar jump pretty high/far?!!!

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