2014-2015 Arcteryx Squamish Performance

[Richard Nisley]

Executive summary: Similar performance to the venerable 2012 and earlier Houdini. More fully featured and more robust fabric for durability. The following is a visual comparison (5mm FOV) plus test results of the fabrics for the 1) 2012 and earlier Patagonia Houdini, 2) 2013 and earlier Arcteryx Squamish and 3) 2014-2015 Arcteryx Squamish. 2012 and earlier Patagonia Houdini Air permeability: 35.8 CFM Hydrostatic Head: 141 mm H2O XL weight: 4.5 oz. Fabric thickness: .081mm Fabric denier: 15x Note: Fiber bundles appear to be encapsulated similar to the Nextec Epic process 2013 and earlier Arcteryx Squamish Air permeability: 35.5 CFM Hydrostatic Head: 492 mm H2O XL weight: 6.1 oz. Fabric thickness: .124mm Fabric denier: 20 Note: Heavy layer of clear PU coating on the inside of the fabric 2014 Fall – 2015 Spring Arcteryx Squamish Air permeability: 43.0 CFM Hydrostatic Head: 70 mm H2O XL weight: 6.2 oz. Fabric thickness: .135mm Fabric denier: 30 Note: Very little or no PU coating on the inside of the fabric

[Justin Baker]

Any preference or notable differences between the 2015 squamish and the BD alpine start? (if anyone on here has used both)

[Richard Nisley]

Justin, I own both, have field experience with both, and test results for both. The current Arcteryx Squamish and 2012 and earlier Houdinis perform almost identically. In contrast, the BD Alpine start has approximately double the air permeability of the Squamish. It is thus design biased towards an athlete who is primarily trying to dump heat and keep external moisture off (362 mm H2O) as apposed to a typical backpacker's balancing act between adding warmth and passing internal moisture out at 7 MET. The fit is also quite different with the Alpine Start optimized for a slender build and the Squamish optimized for a broad shouldered athletic build. The Alpine Start is a couple of oz heavier than the Squamish in size XL.

[James holden]

hows the DWR? does the current houdini have an EPIC style encapsulation like the older ones? hows the squamish DWR in terms of durability? ;)

[Richard Nisley]

Eric, DWR on almost all products purchased now will be worse than in the past. 2015 is the end of the C8 fluorocarbon phase-out period and so the best Arcteryx can use is C6. Current DWR won't last as long as it has in the past. Running the Squamish under the water spigot shows no wetting (DWR rating of 5). Rainwear DWR will not last as long as it has in the past. "Adding insult to injury" it was never that great in the past if you bushwhacked or had to endure multiple day storms without access to a dryer. To my way of thinking it is another reason to only use a rain jacket when you absolutely must. Why sacrifice its weakened DWR when it is not absolutely required such as in big storm? I got disgusted with Patagonia's Houdini product air permeability post 2012; and so, have largely ignored them. Epic is a set of application processes and they can be tuned for a wide range of materials and characteristics. Patagonia was a co-developer of the Nextec Epic processes and probably has usage rights. From what I could see under the microscope, it appeared??? that they were encapsulating their fiber bundles but, I couldn't tell with what. To determine the general formulation of surface material would require a high-end infrared spectrometer (IRS). I tried a low-end IRS and the ratio of DWR material to nylon was so small it wouldn't provide a discernible reading. When Natick Labs did WPB analysis in 2003, Nextec was a Patagonia process.

[Justin Baker]

I have an alpine start and I generally like it but in stiff winds I definitely get wind blowing through. If it's twice the air permeability, can we assume half the wind resistance? I'm thinking about trying a squamish. I have a 2013 houdini and I suspect the squamish would be a good in-between. The fit of the alpine start is fine on me. I have slimmer build. But when I layer too much under the start I end up getting tight in the shoulders where the chest has plenty of room.

[Richard Nisley]

Justin, Yes, relative to your question, "If it's twice the air permeability, can we assume half the wind resistance?".

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Richard, is that the Squamish with the new Tyono30 fabric (is it a taffeta or a ripstop) ?

[Richard Nisley]

Woubier, Yes; I tested both the 2014 and 2015 models with the Tyono 30 denier fabric. They are both double rip stop. The following is a 20mm FOV.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

@Richard, perhaps strange but untill s/s15 Gossamera (with ripstop) was used and only since this f/w15 Tyono30 (without ripstop) is being used. So certainly in 2014, there wasn't supposed to be a version with Tyono30. So a bit confused now. BTW, just took a look at their f/w15-workbook and the description of the Squamish says 'Tyono30 with ripstop' and the description of Tyono30 itself says it has no ripstop. So now even more confused.

[Richard Nisley]

Woubier, This photo shows the hang tags for the two garments I tested with the 30 denier fabric. The colors were offered in two different model years in the US. The Masago color was only offered in 2014 and the Mantis Green was only offered in 2015.

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

And it said Tyono30 was being used ? I only mean that this stats are interesting: or indeed they already used the Tyono30 and the FOV shows it has/had ripstop (can you verify that a new Squamish with Tyono 30 has still a ripstop-weave or has a taffeta-weave ?) or they still used Gossamera and then it shows a difference in CFM without a mentioned change (I think I remember a CFM of ± 56 for early 2014 and the new result shows a CFM of ± 43).

[Paul S.]

"Rainwear DWR will not last as long as it has in the past. "Adding insult to injury" it was never that great in the past if you bushwhacked or had to endure multiple day storms without access to a dryer. To my way of thinking it is another reason to only use a rain jacket when you absolutely must. Why sacrifice its weakened DWR when it is not absolutely required such as in big storm?" In the interest of preserving my event jacket for the serious storms, what's the ideal jacket setup for moving up a hill (MET 7) in the cold rain? E.g. OR Ferrosi hoody?

[Richard Nisley]

Paul, The US Special Forces training for that scenario is what I would suggest: wear a windshirt or softshell with a temperature appropriate polyester base layer. When you get to the top of the hill, you can then put your rain gear on to maintain your warmth if needed. The Special Forces system is similar to the Paramo/Buffalo/Furtech system with the exception that the Special Forces use Epic based windshirts/softshells so they don't need a washer/dryer to replenish the DWR, during long field deployments, and their base layer insulation is variable.

[Paul S.]

Does the Squamish fall into the L4 wind shirt category? I've been scouring the forums and it's hard to find anything recent. Being in the PNW I often hike in drizzly weather too warm for a hard shell. I like the OR Ferrosi for winter hiking but would like something that deals with light rain better.

[Richard Nisley]

Paul, Both the Squamish and OR Ferrosi fall into the L4 wind shirt category. Their primary difference from the military L4 wind shirts is military L4 DWR is permanent (Epic silicone impregnation).

[Anonymous]

"The Special Forces system is similar to the Paramo/Buffalo/Furtech system with the exception that the Special Forces use Epic based windshirts/softshells…" Along these lines Richard, i've often wondered what is the ideal ratio of water resistance and/to breathablity, for systems like the above? Something like 300 to 400 mm with 20 to 25 cfm sounds like a good idea in my mind, but no idea if objectively speaking it's more ideal. Edit to add, obviously as high a CFM to as high HH mm level as is possible is most ideal in the general, but it seems that windshirts and jackets that have a great combo of the above are somewhat rare. Which is why i was wondering about general ideal HH and CFM levels in relation to those particular systems. I tried using a 2012 Houdini with a Paramo pumpliner and found it overly wet out in certain areas, and at around a 100 HH mm, in hindsight i'm not surprised. I added more silicone via brush/rub in, slurry method onto shoulders and other critical areas and it definitely helped.

[Richard Nisley]

ArcturusBear1, Your definition of the ideal is the same as the current L4 specification. The current L4 specification states: Air permeability = 25 CFM max Hydrostatic Head = 300 mm min I tested all of the L4 windshirts available 2 years ago. The best performing was the Multicam Wild Things WT 1.0: Air permeability = 25.51 – 29.8 (2 different specimens tested) Hydrostatic Head = 422 mm H2O (2 different specimens tested)

[Richard Nisley]

Home application reproofing agents rely on the original factory DWR: this is what they stick to. That means that if you wait to reproof until the factory DWR is COMPLETELY removed by abrasion then you hinder the chances of ever restoring it. Why risk completely degrading your rain jacket's DWR in anything other than conditions that could result in hypothermia? A quality windshirt is a great compliment for more benign conditions.

[Justin Baker]

Someone should make a windshirt with more waterproof/less breathable panels on the shoulder and hood. Those are the places that wet out first on the windshirt.

[Anonymous]

Very interesting Richard, thank you for the info. I was not aware of that research/data set.

[Anonymous]

"Someone should make a windshirt with more waterproof/less breathable panels on the shoulder and hood. Those are the places that wet out first on the windshirt." Yes, especially for those using a Paramo/Furtech like system it would be helpful–particularly so if it was an EPIC or EPIC like silicone encapsulation DWR. On my Houdini, i treated the shoulders, the top part of the arms, the hood, and some of the very top of the chest and back area.

[Ito Jakuchu]

"Someone should make a windshirt with more waterproof/less breathable panels on the shoulder and hood. Those are the places that wet out first on the wind shirt." Agree. There are a couple brands out there that have made those. Check among others: Outdoor Research Helium Hybrid Jacket Arcteryx Alpha Comp Hoody (though heavier, soft-shell like wind protection). Salomon S-Lab Hybrid Jacket (front, shoulders, hood, top of back side waterproof, sides, lower back and rest of arms windproof). I've also seen two other European and Japanese brands that have hybrid models out there, but can't seem to remember them off the top of my head. If I find them I'll add them here. Also discussed a bit here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=105423&disable_pagination=1

[Michael Cheifetz]

@richard if i understand correctly the EPIC is basically no longer available in current models? (at least not in LW gear …) so the squamish would be a good choice for highly breathable wind shirt these days? I seem to recall you posted elsewhere that the current model houdini is low CFM? M

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

"And it said Tyono30 was being used ? I only mean that this stats are interesting: or indeed they already used the Tyono30 and the FOV shows it has/had ripstop (can you verify that a new Squamish with Tyono 30 has still a ripstop-weave or has a taffeta-weave ?) or they still used Gossamera and then it shows a difference in CFM without a mentioned change (I think I remember a CFM of ± 56 for early 2014 and the new result shows a CFM of ± 43)." Perhaps bringing this up again. Ideally, a Squamish made off Tyono30 with a plain weave should be tested. Now that the HH of high CFM-windshirts comes up, a HH-rating of that plain weave Tyono30 could be interesting to know, particularly since it was repeated here multiple times that leaks occured more easily at the ripstop threads.

[Author]

Posts