Exped SynMat Winterlite Failure

[Greg Mihalik]

The first baffle separated on Day 17. The second one failed on Day 19. It made the following three nights very uncomfortable. Note the discoloration running along the baffle seams from the foot end. It is not moisture or dirt. It's on the inside. I bought it from REI in June, so I'm not to worried about a replacement. I am concerned about the fact that it failed. This is the second Exped I have had with a baffle failure. The first was a UL7.

[Sam Farrington]

Thanks for the heads up. I just purchased an Exped self-inflator when a cut about one inch long inexplicably developed on the top of my Nemo Zor, which was nevertheless, the most comfortable pad of the many very light self-inflators I've used. The foam has a gel-like quality to it that avoids bounciness. A patch was glued over the cut, but despite cleansing surfaces with alcohol and clamping, plus use of Nemo's recommended kit, the bond was not as complete as desired. I went for the Exped because that brand did about the best in Roger Caffin's article. Must be sure to bring a patch kit along now on even the shortest trips. With the quest for light weight, I think all of these pads need to receive a lot of TLC.

[Russ W]

The Winterlite was supposed to be my luxury purchase for 2015, and I experienced exactly the same type of failure. The pad only lasted for a total of 9 nights before the interior baffle popped on the third day of a 9 day trip in the Winds. Most uncomfortable. Note: This was not due to rough use or a sharp object on the ground. I have absolutely no explanation.

[Greg Mihalik]

Sam – "I think all of these pads need to receive a lot of TLC." They get it from me. I inflate minimally with a pillow-pump. When I sit on the pad I hit bottom. When stretched out to sleep I have plenty of cushion. So over inflation isn't the issue. It's only me on the pad, at 170#, and only gentle landings (see above). A patch kit would have been of no help in this situation. Russel – Did you also have discoloration?

[Russ W]

I did notice staining but I thought it was on the outside and resulted from direct contact because I use a quilt. I would verify but it has already been returned to REI. I swear this mat received tender loving care…what a complete dog!

[Greg Mihalik]

Russel – Thanks. Sounds like mine. I thought it was moisture from the tent floor, but it never went away. Take any photos?

[Owen McMurrey]

Lots of inflatables fail. My Expeds(Downmat UL7, Synmat Hyperlite) both have stains/discoloration, though. That has not been the case with either of my ThermaRest pads or my Big Agnes pads. Mine appear to be external. Top of the DM, bottom of the Hyperlite, like the face material is porous, and has some absorbency. Haven't cleaned either, but will have to see how that works…

[Russ W]

Sorry, I didn't take pictures, however, if memory serves me there is another thread on this forum showing staining issues with the Winterlite. I had already purchased and with the REI warranty decided to go ahead and give it a try. Apparently it's a bad player. No similar issues with Big Agnes pads that are going strong with 2 years of harder usage.I wanted something wider with good insulation. Back to the drawing board.

[Art Tyszka]

I had over 40 nights on a SynMat UL7 with no issues. I switched to a Neoair XLite the last 2 years but could never get comfortable after a few hours as it made my hips sore on my side, or the small of my back sore if I slept on my back. So late this year I got the HyperLite and the WinterLite. I only have 5 nights on the HyperLite so far, and love the comfort. I sure hope these are isolated incidents . . .

[Justin Miller]

I also and a UL7 fail in the same manner 2 seasons ago. I swapped to the Neoair which seemed more soundly constructed but I missed the vertical baffles which I found much more comfortable. When Exped came out with the Winterlite and Hyperlite models I decided to give them another go (Hyperlite). I again love the comfort but this does have me worried that the still have internal adhesion issues. I only have about a dozen nights on my Hyperlite, so time will tell.

[Ralph Burgess]

I just had the same failure (middle baffle) with a Hyperlite. I had about 30 nights on it. All these anecdotes are adding up to data….. I guess Exped must have a problem here, either with design or QC. I'm sticking with it though (the replacement that is) – I love the Exped Schnozzel bag that blows it up with getting an accumulation of gross lung-water inside the thing.

[Derrick White]

Same thing for me this past June with UL7. It was purchased in 2012 so was past warranty. It only had about 50 nights of use. Exped still replaced it without requiring return of faulty pad. They merely wanted photo of serial number and damage. Too bad as nothing else is as comfortable IMO. Derrick

[two pints]

I had a similar baffle failure on an older synmat 7 LW. It happened in the middle of the night while I was lying still on the pad. One minute I was sleeping comfortably, and then I felt a strange sensation and heard a slight whump noise and my left cheek was now higher than my right. I emailed Exped, they had me take a picture of the mat and confirm the serial number printed on the pad (just to confirm it was busted and that it was still under its 5 year warranty) and they shipped me a new pad. (They also had me cut up the old pad)

[Derrick White]

Maybe warranties differ by country. I was told my warranty of 2 years had expired. But they did not require destruction of old pad. I have been wondering about some use to which it could be put in a MYOG project. Derrick

[Tipi Walter]

Greg—I believe Exped has a built-in engineering design flaw because I've seen numerous complaints with pics of blown Exped baffles. Here's an example from a recent trip I did— I was on a 19 day winter trip when on Day 1 my fancy $200 downmat blew a baffle, necessitating a 12 mile detour to an emergency Thermarest cache I buried just for this type of scenario. Bottom line: NEVER TRUST an Exped for a long winter trip unless you have a ccf backup or a rolled in-pack NeoAir or a cached pad at the trailhead.

[Greg Mihalik]

"I was told my warranty of 2 years had expired." "Exped still replaced it without requiring return of faulty pad." I'm guessing that Exped knows they have a problem and are offering "good will" replacements as damage control. REI still offers a "lifetime" warranty on items that fail due to "manufacturer defects". Mine didn't "wear out" or suffer from user abuse – it failed on an inside seam, and should be covered. My UL7 was a year+ past the Exped limit, but REI did replace it. The real question here is reliability down the road…

[Derrick White]

Yes they definitely have an issue based on this thread alone. I assumed my situation was an anomaly. I am curious regarding how long standing this issue. I note failures with the new Hyperlites, and pad from 2012. (The year of manufacture is in the serial number.) Anyone else with failures able post the year of their pad? Thanks Derrick

[Stuart R]

All inflatable mats are prone to this type of failure – the adhesive (or ultrasonic welding) used to bond the layers together is a weak point. Even the old style (non-UL) Thermarest self-inflating mats can fail in this manner. It is inherent in the manufacturing process that some will fail prematurely – annoying but redeemed by a good replacement policy. If you need a fail-free mat then CCF is the only reliably option. FWIW, my Synmat UL7 is fine, as is my (old) Thermarest Prolite.

[Ralph Burgess]

"All inflatable mats are prone to this type of failure – the adhesive (or ultrasonic welding) used to bond the layers together is a weak point." Perhaps the design of all these mats is similar, with similar potential weak points – but that does not mean that all manufacturers are necessarily doing an equally good job of making the same thing. Anecdotal evidence here does suggest that Exped in particular seem to have a problem, either in bonding method or in quality control.

[Tipi Walter]

Stuart says— "All inflatable mats are prone to this type of failure – the adhesive (or ultrasonic welding) used to bond the layers together is a weak point. Even the old style (non-UL) Thermarest self-inflating mats can fail in this manner. It is inherent in the manufacturing process that some will fail prematurely – annoying but redeemed by a good replacement policy. If you need a fail-free mat then CCF is the only reliably option. FWIW, my Synmat UL7 is fine, as is my (old) Thermarest Prolite." I call the problem "Delamination" whether it be a busted baffle tube on an Exped or a real delamination of an old-style Thermarest (i.e. not a busted baffle in a NeoAir). Yes, you are right, regular old Thermarests can delaminate whereby the glue fails and the fabric shell separates from the inside foam. Over the last 40 years of Thermarest usage I've had this delamination problem on about 8 to 10 pads, and just had a Thermarest pad pull apart on a recent trip. See below fotog— This is/was my go-to winter pad, the 40th Anniversary model with about 3 years of hard use.

[Jerry Adams]

I have a Thermarest Prolite that delaminated like that. About the same place. It was where I put my hand and all my body weight as I got onto it. Replaced it at REI. New one – I have been careful not to put my hand and body weight. I do sit on it with all my body weight but there's a larger area to spread the load. That has lasted a lot longer without delamination. It sort of looks like it might delaminate in the middle where I sit. I think this is a weakness of Prolite. But I get 100s of nights before delamination,

[Tipi Walter]

Jerry— I emailed Cascade Designs years ago about this problem and they said it has something to do with "body oils" or "overuse" or "heat" (like sitting inside a hot car). In fact I think it really has to do with shoddy glues and poor quality control and a flaw in their engineering design (as with the Expeds). My 40th Anniversary failed pad had no "body oils" but did have a couple hundred nights of usage. The only way I have found to prevent this kind of thing is to use an inflatable pad for a year or two and then replace with a new one even if the old one still works.

[jscott]

I've used Exped pads for decades. Most recently the ul 7–never had a problem with delamination. But I've always babied the things. I'm not a big guy: I wonder if heavier people put more stress on the pads? Still, I was about to buy the winterlite and went in another direction at the last minute. Maybe a good thing…

[Tipi Walter]

It's good you've gotten years of satisfied use from your Exped; many of us have not. See the following— This pic is from—http://travellingtwo.com/12882 And then this: Pic from—http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/gear/exped-downmat-baffle-failure—has-it-happened-to-you/63495.html And this— From BPL here—http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=95320 And this— Pic from—http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8004761

[Greg Mihalik]

Tipi, Thanks for the images from other sites. Whether or not this is happening across the board on inflatables, it seems like $200 air mats should be more reliable than what we are seeing here.

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