Northern California winter nights

[Jeff Cadorin]

I am itching to see some snow hit the ground around here. I will be spending some time in both the Trinity Alps region and the Sierras. Looking to get a new quilt ordered and here so I am prepaired.

The average lows for both areas float around the 15°F range. Obviously some nights can get colder. I will be wearing some kind of active base layer to bed and will have an insulated jacket to add to the sleeping system. Not sure how I will be handling the layer system for my legs but I really want to avoid carrying insulated pants at this point in time. I try to keep my kit as simple as possible.

Shelter will vary depending on the trip but I will plan on tarp/floorless shelter with tent nights being a bonus. A bivy will be a part of my sleep system as well as a down hat/balaclava.

Think a 10° quilt will suffice? I sleep pretty average and can always leave the jacket or hood off if its warmer. I just think a zero degree could leave me sweating more nights then not. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks
Jeff

[jscott]

What sort of pad do you have?

–Maynard G. Krebs

[Jeff Cadorin]

I will be looking to get a winter pad. Probably just a foam wide ridgrest but am open to insulated inflatables if the budget will allow.

The quilt will be extra wide and very tuckable. I toss and turn a lot at night.

[Will Elliott]

Based on camping and climbing in those conditions in northern California and Alaska, I would get a way warmer pad. I also would not get a ridge rest; it traps snow in the crevices, which melts and gets wet. I either bring a smooth foam pad and pile my pack and everything under it, or do that and then add a warm thermarest, too. If you are just going out for one night then you don't need to sleep well and can just bring whatever. Good luck and have fun! http://cascadeclimbers.com/articles/colin-haley-alpinism-equipment-for-alpinism-in-the-greater-ranges/colin-haley-alpinism-bivy-systems/

[Will Elliott]

I would actually skip the bivy too, and invest that weight in your pad.

[Jeff Cadorin]

Great article, thanks. Also appreciate the tip on the ridgerest. What pad do you suggest if you were buying a new one today? The foam always goes on top of the inflatable? With the right tarp or a mid I can see not needing a bivy. Lots of things to think about. Any other literature or links for furthering my knowledge are greatly appreciated. With no bivy how many nights would you trust having a down sleep system? My normal trips will be 2 nights with a possible 3rd if I can get away for a long weekend.

[Justin Baker]

I have a neoair xtherm, it's a great pad. I use it all year. R value 5.7. Down mats are just so much heavier. For winter I would combine it with a thin foam pad for a little extra R value, puncture resistance, and backup just in case the xtherm fails.

[Justin Baker]

Forgot to mention the xtherm is really expensive, but worth it for me because it's the only inflatable pad I own.

[Jeff Cadorin]

Seeing as how I love my original neo air, the X looks like a perfect solution to me. Thanks for the recommendation. Is a bathtub floored groundsheet worth the extra weight/cost over a piece of plastic?

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

Hi Jeff, I would also suggest a MUCH warmer pad than just 1 foam pad. In this article, Roger Caffin suggest an R value f around 5 or 6 for winter use, and tha lines up well with my experience. http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/airmat_sotmr_part1_2011#.VgARKlo8KrU If you already have a summer inflatable pad wi decent R value, just add a foam pad. I like to use the large sized pads for this, (25×77") because my inflatable is smaller than that and there is nothing worse than waking up with a wet spot on your sleeping bag because your knee was sticking off the side of your pad, melting the snow! The other, lighter option is a large winter inflatable. This is more expensive and doesn't give you any backup in case of puncture. I also use the foam pad as a sit pad while cooking and during rest breaks, but you could just use a small sit pad sized piece or a backpack for that. If you are using a regular tarp, I would say a bivy is just about essential in combination with a quilt, as it's the only thing keeping wind and drafts off you. If you are using a Mid or a tent then you might want to leave it behind. F you are using a single wall shelter, you probably need to add about 15 degrees to an accurately rated quilt. I would look at the temperatures again. It's not so important what the average is, more what a 'likely' low temp is, say 80% of the time it is warmer than X. A few warm night would swing the average way up, but that doesn't really matter when you are shopping for a sleep system. I would suggest some insulated pants, they really don't add much complexity to your set-up, and allow additional layering options for temperature variations, as well as a comfy option for camp time outside bed. This depends a lot on how cold your legs get and how fast you are in camp.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I second Tjaard's "warm pants" suggestion. They extend a sleeping bag's range and are great around camp, ESPECIALLY in the morning. I have synthetic Thermolite Micro insulated pants that I've used to comfortably extend my 30 F. bag to 15 F. along with a puffy down jacket. But I want some Western Mountaineering down pants to lighten my load a lot. How do I get my wife to give me that for Christmas? I have a Thermarest Trail Pro mattress with an R4 rating and use a 1/8" thick CFC pad (cut from floor underlayment) beneath it. So far good to at least -5 F. I do have a Ridgerest but hate to carry that much extra weight.

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