Winter Day Hiking Items: Scenario

[Scott Ireland]

Mike – looks like a pretty good list, but I'm amazed you can fit it in a Talon22. My winter pack is a Stratos 40, and I usually carry at least what Mike has, and often a bit more. I know Chouinard says if you carry it you will use it, but I don't buy that…no one wants to have to bivy, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. In addition, I am now winter hiking with my 12 year old son, and want to be sure he's safe as well, so I know I overpack, but I live with it.

I'm considering throwing my older Chouinard pyramid shelter in as well for deep winter outings, but it depends on the route, as some have lean-to's along them as well.

I'll post my list later, as I am re-packing the winter pack today for a hike on Friday.

Scott

[Mike M]

Scott- the Talon 22 does seem like it carries much more than it's advertised volume-cavernous for such a small pack, most of my stuff is pretty low volume though

yeah I don't agree w/ that philosophy either, more a Boy Scout philosophy :)

definitely post your list up when you get a chance

Mike

[Scott Ireland]

Mike – first time I've really tried to put together a list, so here goes:

Osprey Stratos 40 for my pack

In it:

Large OutdoorResearch dry bag
Black Diamond winter bivy
Marmot rain pants (not precips)
Kite (it's a luxury, I know, but I have a thing about flying on summits and it's very light)
First aid kit, w CPR mask – 13.4 oz (I know it's large, but I am the one WFA certified person in our usual group)
Jetboil
Summit kit – Ski goggles, face mask, balaclava
Dry clothes – extra wool baselayer, socks, softshell gloves, hat)
Patagonia down sweater
Marmot Cristallo hardshell jacket (http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-cristallo-jacket-mens)
Essentials kit – includes:
matches
compass
knife
Two headlamps with spare batteries
Waterproof notepad/pencil

Clipped/strapped to outside of pack –
Microspikes
Grivel 10 point crampons
MSR Lightning Ascent snowshoes
Ice axe

To wear:

Stoic softshell pants (with these I don't use a baselayer)
Smartwool 1/4 zip top
Marmot DriClime jacket
Hat/glove liners

On feet –
Depends on temperature –
Early or Late winter – Columbia IceDragons
Deep winter – Koflach Degres

OK – have at it! I'm sure I'm way overpacked, but I still have that Eagle Scout / ex-military mentality…

Scott

[Mike M]

your making me look under prepared :)

<-ex-military/boy scout too

I just ordered some goggles (found they might come handy the other day!)

do you carry a shovel?

[Scott Ireland]

No, no shovel, but sometimes I add one of those spoon sleds. Great for butt sliding down, and can work as a shovel if need be.
Just learned that LL Bean has XL spoon sleds too!

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/66695?feat=679-CL1

EDITED TO ADD: I suspect our snow is much different than in Montana – very few avalanches here, and more hard packed wet snow than powder.

[Mike M]

^ ahhh very true- lots of powder in the Winter, gets hard packed come Spring

[Eric Blumensaadt]

First if you're in avalanche country (and the Rockies qualifies in spades) you need:

1. an Avy I course
2. avy beacon
3. Avy shovel
4. probe
5. snow study kit and snow saw
6. Avalung
7. AVY TRAINED & equipped partners (at least 2)W/EPIRB beacon.

Other lists here are good and some included overnight stay gear, which I feel is a must in the conditions described by Ryan.

Extra lithium batteries and a REGULATED headlamp are a must, as is reliable fire starting equipment. Plus FOOD, FOOD, FOOD.

Oh yeah,and you should have read "Allen &
Mike's Really Cool Backcountry Ski Book".

BTW, my Overnight Gear:

Ridgerest mattress
WM Megalite 30 F. bag
down sweater
down booties
Thermolite syn. insulated pants
fleece balaclava

8'X10' tarp

I'd use the avy shovel to dig a 1/2 snow trench, 1/2 length "leg tunnel". Then put skis, poles, avy probe & branches over the trench 1/2, cover it and the door with the tarp and put snow on the tarp roof W/ my pack on the lower edge of the tarp door to hold it down.

Wear ALL of my clothes to bed (except GTX mt'n. parka) if it's cold enough. The GTX parka gets zipped up, hood cinched tight & the foot of my bag goes inside the parka.

Done it before and it works very well.

[Mike M]

^ that sounds like a very effective shelter- you wouldn't have a drawing or pic of that setup- trying to accurately visualize it

I tried ordering Mike's book and it appears to be out of print :(

[Scott Ireland]

""I tried ordering Mike's book and it appears to be out of print :(""

There are some used ones for sale on Amazon

[Mike M]

nice- got one for $5 shipped :) funny when I looked on amazon before it showed this used book available from $99?????????????

[Mike M]

found this very useful guide to building a trench

http://www.survivaltopics.com/survival/snow-trench-shelter/

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Mike,

Thanks for the link. That's exactly the kind of trench I was describing. Fast to build and quite warm, especially if you have a candle lantern to hang from a stick on a side wall.

Evergreen boughs on the floor are good insulation. Laying them "face down" will keep most branches from poking you and your mattress.

[Mike M]

yeah that does look handy, I've practiced (including staying overnight) in debris shelters, but as the article points out- if you have sufficient snow the trench is a better option

I do keep two beeswax candles in my pack- I've used them in debris shelters and it's amazing (pleasantly so) how much heat a little candle can generate in close quarters

I also always have a pack liner which would make the ultimate "door" when filled w/ snow :)

[James holden]

http://www.usap.gov/travelAndDeployment/documents/FieldManual-Chapt11SnowShelters.pdf

honestly you can carry tons of stuff … i just toss in a blizzard, ex light, a reliable way of starting fire, and sometimes a snow shovel … and call it a day

[David Chenault]

I do think ya'll are making this too complex. I always bring redundant firestarters (2x esbit tabs, bottle of link and denatured alcohol, lighter, firesteel0, map and compass, and a good headlamp with good batteries. In winter I add an emergency bivy. That's it.

So long as you make a fire and get out of the wind you'll be fine. More insulation, but not enough to do away with the fire, seems a bit besides the point.

Most important is fitness, so you can keep chuggin through the storm no matter how bad the trail breaking is, and make it back to the truck at 1 am.

As for avy stuff, the most important thing is knowledge. The second most important thing in an inclometer, closely followed by a shovel. As for the rest, if you have to use any of it, you probably screwed up.

[Larry Dyer]

Obviously all you'll need are skivvies and a locator beacon!

Seriously though, I never have to deal or even think about dealing with these situations. Therefore as a Southerner it's interesting reading this discussion. Good thread.

[Paul Magnanti]

You're putting in about 15 miles today, half of that a lot of uphill through deep snow.

http://www.thespiritoftherockies.net/spirit/Hikes/ThunderLake/ThunderLakeHike.html

In the winter, it is about 15 miles R/T due to gate closure.

Once past the Falls, we were breaking trail. The difference? I did it on skis vs snowshoes. (Because snowshoes are slow, boring and clunky. ;) )

As David C stated ,being in shape in and having experience are the best assets. It helps that I am fairly good at backcountry Nordic and can make the miles vs. snowshoes. I like to keep it simple as well. Frankly, I think too many people take avalanche beacons who do not necessarily need them (and worse) don't know how to use them. Knowing where and when to NOT go is far more useful in winter. But that's another discussion. :D

During the winter, I am backcountry skiing almost every weekend. When I was laid off last winter, I was on skis one stretch for 12 out of 14 days! Sometimes the trips are short…quite a few times I am covering up to 15-20 miles on skis in a day (though not always with 3000' gain!)

FWIW, my equipment for a day ski tour:

CLOTHING AND GEAR ON SELF:

Wool hat
Icebreaker Merino wool top and bottoms (med wt)
Liner socks
Ragg wool socks
Surplus wool pants
Wool sweater (switching to softshell this season, though)
Army surplus wool liners
OR Shell mitts
Asolo Snowline boots
"Old school tele skis"
Compass
Map
Poles
GoLite Jam 2

EQUIPMENT AND CLOTHING IN PACK
Wax kit
Climbing skins (don't always take them; depends on the trip)
Zip ties
Duct tape
Lighter in zip lock
Vitamin I
Band Aids
4×4 gauze pads
Energizer 3 LED Headlamp
Shovel
Montbell Thermawrap
Nylon shell (Campmor special)
Goggles
Facemask
Exp wt polypro balaclava
Boiled wool mitts
Two breadbags for BagTex aka the poor man's VBL for my feet in an emergency…
VERY IMPORTANT: My "two-cuppa" thermos full of a tasty hot beverage. Mmm Mmm Mmm

If I have an "OH SH**!" moment, the shovel would be the best asset as I can dig a snowcave and be relatively safe. It would not be the best night of my life, but I would be OK.

I generally don't ski where there is avalanche terrain. While I do have a 'real' (Scarpa T2s, short and fat skis) tele setup, my real love is backcountry Nordic.

This kit has served me well since I really took up my winter passion: long ski tours.

And why go through all this? I'll let the photo say why!

[Mike M]

turns out that's what I have down in my basement- circa early 90's wax E99's (w/ matching Merrell tele boots) :)

nice photo btw :)

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Paul,

Been in Boulder, the Flatirons and many times up to Eldora and the Indian Peaks many times. My daughter lives in Lewisville.

As for the avy equipment, being a ski patroller (& former Nordic patroller for 10 yrs.)I guess I'm more inclined to trust my equipment B/C I do have the training.

Since you are a local you know where it's safe and where it's not. I have to rely on books of the area and locals who appear to be knowledgable.

BTW, watch out for them thar rich "trustafarians" in Boulder. They dress real outdoorsy but usually don't make it past the Flatirons even in summer.

[Roger Caffin]

> since I really took up my winter passion: long ski tours.

+2

Cheers

[Paul Magnanti]

re: Avy equipment

As mentioned, too many people buy it and don't know how to use it. As a ski patroller, you probably already know how quickly someone must be found for the equipment to be effective (Finding a live body vs finding a frozen corpse :)

re: Trustafarians

I am too much a dirt bagger at heart to hang with the trustafarians. :D

Anyway, the only trust fund I have is the recipes given to me by Grandma Mags. Doesn't buy the latest gear but man, does it feed my girlfriend and I well!

re: Lewisville

Despite the odd pronunciation, it is spelled Louisville but pronounced like the above spelling. Since I have a hard to pronounce last name..it's all good!

Another winter photo..just because. Mitchell Lake at sunset. A few of us made snowcaves…Notice the snowshoe; Some of my friends haven't seen the light, yet!
(What can I say, I love winter)

[Stephen M]

Hi folks,

For winter in the UK I would be carrying the below list of kit on top of what I would have in summer.

Glacier Glasses.
Wind proof Buff.
Primaloft Mitts and Gauntlets.
Goretex Over Mitts
Crampons, axe, shovel, probe, helmat and goggles.
Was 300g CCF Mat, now 300g of Z lite
Blizzard Bag
Bothy Bag
Flask with hot water.
Down Jacket, trousers, booties ands mitts & Blaclava with about 500g of down in total.
Jetboil, few lighters and firesteel (no hope of a fire in the Uk mountains)
Plenty of Food
Half a Dozen heat pads
Sat Phone,GPS, Mobile Phone
130 Lumens Headtorch & backup Petzl elite and a lot of batteries.
Couple of pair Windproof liner gloves.
Primaloft vest.
Silva ADC Summit (or Burton in the US)

Sounds like a lot but its not that heavy :-)

Cheers,

Stephen

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