Backpacking with Children – A Gear List for Two

[Hikin’ Jim]

So, armed with help from the last gear list I posted, I went out with my daughter (age 5) this past weekend. I got my base weight down to 20.2 lbs (13 kg), which while not phenomenal represents progress for me, particularly since my individual base weight would have been roughly double that say 10 years ago.

Rather than replace my pdf gear list here on BPL (which would invalidate earlier threads), I just put my gear list on my blog which accepts a "cut and paste" directly from Excel. I wrote up some verbiage too to make it a proper post, but my purpose here is more to solicit further ideas for weight reduction. I've still got a lot of "slack" in my gear (as you will no doubt see in my gear list).

So, if you have time, please render an opinion or two on my Gear List for Two

Thanks,

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[David Thomas]

Jim,

I recognize a few items on that list!

I'll say again, 8.6 ounces seems heavy for the First Aid Kit.

I don't see a cell phone on the list. Do you carry one? If you do, why not skip the 13 ounces of camera gear? Even my dog's cell phone has a pretty good camera on it.

I count four hats – two hats and two hoodies plus possibly more for your daughter. What's true about clothing, "if you are not wearing all of it at one time, you brought too much" is also true of hats, "if you aren't wearing all of them at some point, you brought too many." Find some combo of hats/hoodies that work together – then you'd have both higher function and lower weight. And I don't see anything that functions as a sun hat, but maybe I'm missing it.

But good on you for getting out there with your daughter. I'm going out with my 10-y-o daughter on a canoe trip next week. A friend had the brilliant idea of doing a father-daughter trip with 4 dads and 4 girls who all know each other.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I recognize a few items on that list!

I should say so! Thank you again.

While this "Gear List for Two" is hardly revolutionary, it represents real progress for me. I went out on my Grand Canyon trip with just gear for me, and I carried 29 lbs (incl. fuel, food, and water) at the start of the trip. On this last trip, I carried 28 lbs, but that was with gear for two. The difference? The help I received here on BPL. Now, my Memorial Day trip was only 2 days whereas my Grand Canyon trip was 3, but still, heading out on the trail with gear for two at basically the same weight as I was carrying for one is real progress. Gotta say I was pretty darn jazzed.

I'll say again, 8.6 ounces seems heavy for the First Aid Kit.

Yeah, while this is an improvement (if you can believe it), it's still heavy. I'm basically suffering from "off the shelf-itis". I bought an off the shelf first aid kit, and I'm paying the weight penalty. I need to assemble my own first aid kit.

I don't see a cell phone on the list. Do you carry one? If you do, why not skip the 13 ounces of camera gear? Even my dog's cell phone has a pretty good camera on it.

I've got a Samsung S-III which sits on my belt. It takes OK photos. Just OK. And it only has a 4x electronic zoom. The dynamic range isn't all that good. After my last camera died, I went with just the Smart phone for a while, but I wasn't happy. The photo quality just wasn't there. The images weren't as crisp and clean, things were over/under exposed, low light photos sucked, and the lack of a real zoom was really limiting. For my Grand Canyon trip, I bit the bullet and ponied up for a new camera. I was very pleased with the results. Very pleased. And at the same time, the weight penalty is real. Maybe my next Smart phone will make me happy photographically, but this one isn't. In my defense, one of the other people on the trip carried eight pounds of camera gear. I know because I weighed it with my luggage scale at the trailhead. Her photos are way nicer than mine. I consider my little point-and-shoot a somewhat reasonable compromise. Somewhat. We'll see what the next gen of smart phones brings. The idea of communications, internet, maps, GPS, and photography all in one small package is pretty alluring.

I count four hats – two hats and two hoodies plus possibly more for your daughter. What's true about clothing, "if you are not wearing all of it at one time, you brought too much" is also true of hats, "if you aren't wearing all of them at some point, you brought too many." Find some combo of hats/hoodies that work together – then you'd have both higher function and lower weight. And I don't see anything that functions as a sun hat, but maybe I'm missing it.

Hmm. Interesting. "if you are not wearing all of it at one time, you brought too much" makes sense. I did wear the balaclava (which proved to be insufficient in keeping my face warm so I don't wake up at night) and the fleece cap simultaneously along with, at one point, my down hoodie inside my bag when I got cold after getting up to "take a break" in the middle of the night. In the morning, I definitely wore my fleece cap as sort of a base layer under my down hoodie. If you look at the photo, above, my daughter is wearing her fleece cap, down hoodie, and shell hood all at once. We generally used all our hats simultaneously, but this is definitely something to think about. It was a rainy weekend, so I didn't bring a sun hat for my daughter. I had a baseball cap which I did not wear in conjunction with any other head gear. Hmm. Gotta think more about this one. I sweat like crazy while hiking during the day, so my "daytime" hat is usually pretty wet when I pull into camp. I sure like having that nice, dry fleece cap to change into.

But good on you for getting out there with your daughter. I'm going out with my 10-y-o daughter on a canoe trip next week. A friend had the brilliant idea of doing a father-daughter trip with 4 dads and 4 girls who all know each other.

Sounds excellent. I'd like to do more of that type of thing. Joycie hikes a lot better when other kids are along and enjoys it more.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

There's nothing like seeing one's own gear in black and white. Just looking at it, there are some things I could do like:
1. Batteries. Only bring one set of CR123 batteries (for the Steri-Pen) per trip. If I bring new batteries every trip, there's no real need for a set of spares. Of course CR123's are expensive, but I can use the less-than-new ones for short trips. Steri-Pens are notoriously touchy about needing fully charged batteries.
2. Headlamps, part I. I brought my old headlamp for my daughter. Seeing that my new headlamp weighs 1/2 what the old one weighed makes me feel good about buying the new headlamp, but I don't want to drag along my "boat anchor" old headlamp. If something cheap and light comes up, I'll grab it. I definitely want a headlamp for my daughter. She needs to be able to get around at night. I didn't bring one for her on a recent trip, and I felt bad because she couldn't get around well.
3. Headlamps, part II. I could drop the headlamp cases. I got them because a friend of mine had his headlamp turn on inside his pack on one trip, his batteries fully discharged, and he went without light that trip which was a winter trip, and it really sucked not to have a light. Maybe there's a better way? (Your suggestions go here) :)

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[James Couch]

>3. Headlamps, part II. I could drop the headlamp cases. I got them because a friend of mine >had his headlamp turn on inside his pack on one trip, his batteries fully discharged, and he >went without light that trip which was a winter trip, and it really sucked not to have a >light. Maybe there's a better way? (Your suggestions go here) :)

some headlamps such as the Princeton Tech Viz have a lockout feature so you can lock the switch out. Or you could just take one of the batteries out of the headlamp you have or turn it around backwards when you have it in the pack.

[Andy F]

Fun list… I enjoy trips with one or more of my kids too. :)

My sewing kit is a straight and a curved needle with a small coil of unwaxed, unscented dental floss and a small coil of black thread. I didn't bother to weigh it, but it blows away quite easily.

Ziploc 16 oz bowl without the lid: 0.5 oz

A plastic 1/2 oz measuring cup borrowed from the kitchen weighs less and can measure most meal ingredients.

You seem to have a little extra clothing than I would carry for 35F, but that's likely for the little one. I wouldn't carry more than thin liner gloves, fleece hat, jacket, and maybe base layer pants if more than a passing shower was anticipated or temps wouldn't get above 50F during the day.

[Hikin’ Jim]

some headlamps such as the Princeton Tech Viz have a lockout feature so you can lock the switch out.

Ah! Good tip. I need to upgrade anyway.

Or you could just take one of the batteries out of the headlamp you have or turn it around backwards when you have it in the pack.

That works as an interim solution. Thank you.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

My sewing kit is a straight and a curved needle with a small coil of unwaxed, unscented dental floss and a small coil of black thread. I didn't bother to weigh it, but it blows away quite easily.

Yeah, that's probably all you'd really need. I have a little sewing kit that I got from a hotel. I should probably examine what's really in it.

Ziploc 16 oz bowl without the lid: 0.5 oz

Bingo! Good idea. Less than half the weight with absolutely no loss of function. I like it.

You seem to have a little extra clothing than I would carry for 35F, but that's likely for the little one.

Yeah, that and the fact that I'm a wimpy Californian. :) Seriously though, it is hard to go from 80F days on the coast where I live to 50F degree days that get down into the 30's at night up in the mountains. A couple of weeks ago, it was about 25 F at night where I camped at 9000' above sea level and about 95 F high down in the flat. That's a 70F difference in the course of the day. And yes, I am a bit protective of my daughter who is quite petite and gets cold easily.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Joe Lynch]

What, no fire permit? Those stoves will just have to stay home…

Good luck with your efforts. Great to see you bringing your daughter along.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Ha! They have to catch me first. :)

Having the kiddo along can be challenging but a lot of fun too when you see their eyes light up over a flower or a bug or something.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[James Couch]

Many of my best memories were trips with the kids. A winter ski trip with my eldest daughter to reflection lakes at Mt Rainier, gorgeous sunset & sunrise and an amazing midnight moon. Watching her witness this was fantastic.

Also a short two trip with my wife and both kids, camping near some flower loaded meadows and a the day hike up the ridge above!

And of course summiting Rainer with my daughter and her boyfriend so she could propose to him on the top!

Memories for a lifetime!

[Hikin’ Jim]

She proposed to him? On top of Rainier? How cool is that?

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Joshua L]

On your gear list I noticed that you brought a front carrier, did you useit? How comfortable was it?
I have a year and a half daughter that I've been taking on hikes in a back carrier. I tried using the baby bjorn front carrier that we used when she was an infant, but she kept accidentally (or not) kicking me where i didn't want to be kicked…

[Hikin’ Jim]

Joshua,

I've used a child front carrier extensively. I far prefer it to a back carrier. The back carrier was OK when my daughter was younger and not as heavy, but when she got older, it was too much weight all in one place.

A back carrier also typically doesn't have enough room for overnight gear for two. With a front carrier, I just carry whatever backpack I would normally carry.

Back carriers are freaking heavy. A lot of them weigh around 7 pounds empty. My front carrier weighs about 1.2 pounds.

A front carrier balances the load a lot better.

Summer trip from last summer:

Winter trip from 2014:

Now comfortable. Well, it's about as comfortable as can be expected. And yeah, you have to watch leg swing. Facing the child inward helps tremendously. If you face them outward, their heels tend to bang back on your legs (or other things in that area if you get my drift). Not perfect since I'm sure they'd rather face out, but they can turn their heads.

Weird tip: Hydration bladders are really good for when you're carrying a child. I often like to carry "plain" Platypus bladders since they're so light, but with a child strapped to my chest, it's a heck of a lot easier to just hand them the hydration bladder hose (or let them get it for themselves). A hydration tube is super intuitive for kids. My daughter caught on before she was one year old, on our very first hike.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Don Burton]

Hi Jim,

I live near Manhattan Beach so not too far from you. I'm curious as to where you're going with your daughter. I'm looking for some overnight hikes I can do with my kids. I've found one in Angeles Crest Forest and another near Lake Cachuma but I'm always looking for suggestions.

Sorry to go off topic. Feel free to ignore.

Best,
Don

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, Don,

You're not off topic at all.

I've taken my daughter on any number of local backpacks.

• This most recent was to Strawberry Junction Camp in the San Jacinto Wilderness.
• Round Valley in San Jacinto State Park is normally good although there's no water this year
• I've taken her to Hoegees Camp near Arcadia in the Angeles National Forest
• Little Jimmy is a classic easy backpack with water in the Angeles National Forest
• Cooper Canyon Camp (I think that's the right name) in the Angeles National Forest is nice although I'm not sure if there's water there now.
• Glenn Trail camp in the Angeles National Forest is easily accessible, but it has a paved road. The road is closed to the public but it's still a road. Glenn is a good one for bike camping.
• Mt. Lowe Trail Camp in the Angeles National Forest is good one when there's water.
• There are three good trail camps along the W Fork of the San Gabriel River in the Angeles National Forest along the Gabrieleno Trail: Valley Forge, West Fork, and Devore. Water is pretty reliable at Devore.
• Switzer Trail Camp in the Angeles National Forest is a pretty easy one.
• Henninger Flats is a nice place to camp. It's run by the LA Co. Fire Dept, but it's
• Third Crossing and Stone House Crossing are nice in the San Bernardino National Forest on the Middle Fork of Lytle Creek.
• Fish Creek Camp in the San Gorgonio Wilderness is a nice one and Fish Creek does have water right now.
• John's Meadow Camp is a great one but is unfortunately closed right now due to deadfall hazard.

  I'm sure that there are other good ones, but that's all the ones I can think of just off the top of my head.

  HJ
  Adventures In Stoving
  Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Angus A.]

All great suggestions from Jim. I've taken my 9 year-old to almost all of the listed destinations. My daughter's favorite is Little Jimmy and Glenn Camp.

Henninger Flats is good but you need to haul in water since they've capped-off all the water faucets at camp. Vending machines for cold drinks at the museum so bring change.

Hoegees is nice but get you need to get to the parking lot by 6AM if you want good parking. A lot of day hikers and weekenders head up there and the lot is typically full by 7:30AM. Adams Pack Station has a store and serves hot food…great for an after-hike treat for the kiddos.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Yeah, that sucks about Henninger. That's such a kid friendly place. Beyond Henninger is Idlehour, but that's quite a bit farther and has a lot of poison oak.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Ben H.]

Hiking Jim and Angus:

Great information! Thanks. I am always looking for trips I can take my kids on (4 and 6) and I haven't heard of any of these. I took my oldest down the Sespe for his first backpacking trip. It was great because we just walked down the river until he got tired and then found a camping spot.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Ben,

My daughter is 5, right between the ages of your kids, so I would think these trips would be good for you.

Where exactly did you go in the Sespe? May be getting too hot now, but always good to know for future reference.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Ben H.]

http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lpnf/recreation/hiking/recarea/?recid=11049&actid=51

It was the Sespe river trail out of the Piedra Blanca Trailhead. It's just over the hill north of Ojia.

I wrote up a trip report on backpacking.net:

http://www.backpacking.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=182172

[Hikin’ Jim]

Oh, nice.

Thanks, Ben.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

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