Quick Tenkara Trip

[Marko Botsaris]

People should never dogpile – but the issues are real, not fringe.

They ARE only fish, but Trout are surprisingly fragile – I have definitely killed a few by accident, even following best practices. I NEVER fish for them anymore without a net – I know I will still kill a few now and then, but no more from improper physical contact with skin, ground, or anything else. I cringe when I think back to the way I released the saltwater fish of my misspent youth. They are far, far tougher, and I had to unlearn a lot of bad habits when I started fishing for trout. Lots of trout also die 12-24 hours later from lactic acid buildup if they are over-stressed or they are caught when the water is too warm. All due to oxygen deprivation and their own unique physiology. I think Gregs rule about holding YOUR breath is actually over-generous to the fisherman.

On the one hand parr like the one pictured are not my main concern – they might have been just dumped in there from a hatchery. But it makes me especially sad (yes, sometime angry too) to see much older fish treated without respect and care. On the other the parrs are even MORE fragile. No part of their body should be exposed to ANYTHING other than a net or a pre-wetted hand – otherwise likely subsequent death – another factoid about trout is that they have a protective film of "slime" on their body that a single exposure to a dry hand can remove, leading to a high probability of death later. No recriminations at all – just educational material that you may or may not know – but need to know. I'd say when fishing with a young person this is all the more important to keep in the forefront and explain to them. It is possible to be a fisherman and still love and respect the fish. Please, no more "still life trout on rock pictures". This is a no brainer if you know the risk factors.

For better or worse, nowadays serious fly fisherman that care about the fish have a secret code and will be evaluating your seriousness about the environment and taking care of the fish, and yes, even the more abstract idea of respect, by looking at your pictures, and, though you may not notice it, cringing and grumbling behind you back (and maybe occasionally to your face) when they witness obviously poor treatment. It goes something like this – in the picture it should look like you just barely lifted the fish out of the water briefly to take a picture (what you should ideally have actually done). A parr should be in a net or hanging in the water since they are super fragile. People who want use their rod as a measuring stick (a popular convention) should cradle it across their forearm. If the fish is big, one hand holds the tail and the other gently cradles the fish's midsection from below – no squeezing, a potential source of internal damage. Also the fish will actually flop around less by cradling as when you squeeze you put pressure on their main sensory apparatus along their sides. That, in addition to the fact that they are suffocating, is what make them freak out. My own pet peeve is the one-handed hero shot with a big fish that looks like it is getting its spine adjusted. If it looks like you laid it on the ground just to take a picture, you may impress your non-fishing friends by the beauty of the scene, but people in the know are naturally going to have negative reactions. Response to various "offenses" will range from thinking you are a careless noob (laying the fish on the ground), to being a total douchbag (gilling the fish) depending on the severity of the "offense". Generally the bigger/older the fish the more intense the reastion. Serious trout bums have been know to eviscerate people on social media for such "offenses". Not saying it is right, just wanted to make sure you know both the reasons, and that this is a "thing".

FWIW I have myself committed most of these offenses in the past, and still do on occasion when I am not paying attention, or spaz out in excitement of landing a particularly spectacular fish. Just ideals to keep in mind.

Here is a key. Custom Spey Rod guru Bob Meiser (perfect)

good ways to do parr pics.

Good

OY! My Spine!

Douchebag – unless the fish is already dead.

For fish like bass (not trout) that have a tough lower jaw lifting them up by the lower lip for a picture is considered just fine.

[TahoeJeff]

My apologies to Mr. Tucker for being one of the dogs piling on. I honestly didn't mean to harsh his mellow, I just love the trouts and only wish the best for them.

[Ryan Tucker]

This fish are wild. Not stocked.

I learned from this discussion in that laying them on rocks for perspective can also hurt the "slime" as my hands do as well. For taking a photo alone it leaves few options.

I took issue with the fact that I was somehow leaving fish out of the water for several minutes. Trout in wild streams in WNC can be landed very quickly in most cases. Using a net one can quickly reach into their wader pocket retrieve their phone scroll up to access their camera handled the fish take the shot and return it to the water easily in less than 30 seconds. We aren't talking about large fish. I typically retrieve my phone, scroll to camera while the fish are floating in the net as water runs through it. I occasionally loose a fish that flops out of the net this way if I have removed the hook. I have questioned whether the hook should come out first or not. I typically remove it but at times get ahead of myself.

Some of the moral indignation is hard to live with on these boards. I have watched it play out in many arenas not just the fishing forum.

"nowadays serious fly fisherman" Comments like this make me laugh. I assume individuals believe what they write, but I have often wondered about our own impacts on fishing much larger than a single c&r situation. The by-products of the gear I need to fly fish are somewhat harmful to our environment. How does my love of fishing cause harm? The gear I love to obsess over that is light weight certainly is often an environmental issue. How does my love of lightweight backpacking cause harm?

Maybe it is easier to focus on something narrow like a single c&r situation, but nobody on earth isn't adversely affecting the planet in some way, shape or form. In good faith don't we all need to do as much as we can do and maybe if the person next to us isn't doing what we do we might just assume they are doing something else. Maybe, just maybe something else more meaningful than the single trout I saved (or assumed I saved) because of my c&r technique.

If I fly to Alaska to fish or Montana or Patagonia what is the cost of my desire to get there merely to fish. Hasn't that plane contributed to the #1 enemy of cold water fisheries.

To be clear rightly or wrongly. I am a member of several well respected conservation organizations including Trout Unlimited. I am active in stream clean ups in my fishing area. I enjoy fishing and when catching a fish always try to enjoy the moment within reason while actively trying to practice c&r methods as I understand them.

As has been mentioned some of the post whether I agreed with them or not were offered in good taste others were clearly shared from a point of moral superiority. Other than being bored enough to continue to engage them I realized they aren't as superior as their post might imply. I know they adversely affect the ecosystem in many ways and many much worse than potentially mishandling a single fish.

"nowadays serious stewards of our environment" often see the hypocrisy of our own soap box issues compared to our actual ecological footprint.

[Dave T]

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[Ryan Tucker]

I am aware of that stat which has been sited. Though I am typically skeptical of such stats for arguments sake lets accept it as true. How do you land and release a fish in less than 30 seconds? Everyone one I know spends some time looking at or admiring or taking a picture of a fish.

We all know the gas we use to reach our fishing destinations is far more detrimental to the fish than proper C&R, but none of us are going to stop going and only think about the fish. You and a few others have been a bit silly about this. You have not seen me catch, photo and release a fish. You don't know how quickly I have taken the photos or a friend has taken them. I have laughed as I watched someone attempt to rate the acceptable photos against the unacceptable despite knowing no other info about the photo.

Photo A is correct the person is barely holding the fish out of the water, Photo B is incorrect because the person seems excited, not respectful and his holding the fish high in the air. Photo B landed the fish quickly on a 7wt rod and handled the fish less than 30 seconds. Photo A chose to chase fish today with his 3wt not his 4wt, 5wt, 7wt rod despite the environmental impact of each piece of equipment that over laps the use of the other piece of equipment. They held the fish out of the water for 1 1/2 minutes but they barely held it out of the water. The entire thread is non sense for this very reason.

Thanks to those who offered thoughts respectfully, we should be able to share opinions and divergent thought. I have a different perspective on laying a fish on a rock because of it. Slime removal is slime removal (net, hand or rock)

Dave T…thanks for doing what a simple post search will reveal you typically do. Spinning from a high horse about issues you are likely quite hypocritical about.

[Ryan Tucker]

I found this interesting. I am amazed at the differing opinions on the subject as this discussion has peaked my interest.

http://www.orvis.com/news/fly-fishing/video-tuesday-tip-how-to-use-a-gopro-to-take-fish-friendly-photos/?adv=352841&cm_mmc=linkshare-_-TnL5HPStwNw-_-1-_-352841

[Yuri R]

At times it feels that there is some heavy-handed policing done by the members. The intention can be good, but the tone of the message doesn't often come through well enough.

[Greg Mihalik]

Ryan,
Nice discovery.

I tie a lot off of Tightline. Tim is succinct and precise. I really enjoy his style. As usual, he tells you how to "get it done" with a minimum of effort.

Thanks.

[Marko Botsaris]

""nowadays serious fly fisherman" Comments like this make me laugh. "

Ryan, I think you are taking this way too personally. I will simply refer to TU (Trout Unlimited) which is one of the older and more "serious" environmental groups, dedicated to the protection of River and Fish primarily. They were mostly founded by, and their membership made up of a large percentage of, fly fisherman. Their magazine has many times over the year had articles on such issues, and I believe they publish somewhere a best practices list similar to what someone posted above. We are definitely not making this stuff up. While the anonymity of the internet allows you to assume, if you chose, that the people trying to educate you on some of these issue are complete idiots, I assure you that is not always the case. While some (myself included) have taken a long time to come around, nowadays it is extremely difficult to find anyone that has been fly fishing regularly for many decades (yes I'd say that, and engaging with related "serious" environmental issues might constitute "serious") that wouldn't at least gently encourage you to take better care of the "resource". Even the old grizzled ones that have been fishing for half a century mostly seem to be C&R and best practice practitioners nowadays.

BTW, if the fish really are "wild", in other words a self-sustaining population (and most places in the Sierra those would have to be described as delicate self-sustaining populations) then best practices are MORE important, not less. Often in truly wild streams/lakes, for example, there are barbless hook, no or limited harvest, and sometime lure or fly-only regulations. Millions of feeder trout are dumped into sierra lakes and stream every year. It isn't always obvious which places are self-sustaining. Very few are, and there are fewer every year.

[Ryan Tucker]

The streams in the pic are designated wild in WNC. I do not believe the receive any form of stocking. It is possible to remove 4 fish of 7 inches or longer a day. I rarely keep any fish unless I am backpacking and then usually only one or two.

I was less concerned with the info in the post than the tone of a couple of poster like yourself. I am a member of TU and have read many of the articles you read. It is possible for human beings to have different opinions on these subjects. I obviously support TU, but it isn't far fetched to assume a conservation organization might have a interest in over stating the resource issue.

In the end if you are new to fishing for trout and mishandle a fish I would like to think our community would respond with suggestions about how to properly handle a fish. The assumption that taking a picture means you have held the fish out of the water to long is silly. Being opposed to laying one on a rock is fine, offering a suggestion that a person rethink laying them on a rock due to damaging the slime and pointing them to info to support your suggestion seems like a better idea than questioning their love or value of the resource.

I don't automatically assume data/research is correct. I am skeptical by nature and though I take several measures to prevent harming the resource I internally doubt C&R is nearly as harmful as some have made it out to be. I have also stated that improper C&R tactics are not the number 1 threat of cold water fisheries and we are all a part of the real problem. It will be my intention in the future to continue to take photos but not laying fish on rocks. Looking into the slime issue because of this thread has changed my opinion.

As far as taking it personally I am not the only one who saw the responses in that light as evidenced by the comments and a few PM's I received.

[Marko Botsaris]

Fair enough. I for one never said you were bad – as I said, I have done the same many times. I just now try to first understand what effects I have on an environment I care about. Whether I can actually do anything about it, hypocrite or not, is debatable, but understanding the consequences of what I do always has to come first. Yeah, treating a stupid fish (I'm not being ironic here, truly) like an EMS patient is kind of crazy on the surface, and by itself certainly is not going to protect a population of fish. But I DO think attitudes are interesting and important. Some of us DO overreact when we (think we) sniff the "everything is here for our entertainment first" attitude – not saying that your pics were evidence of that – that together with ignorance of the actual effects is a big part of the destruction of the enviroment. Yeah, C&R practice attitude are never going to make a difference one way or another. On the other hand I think it is possible that a child that learns about such practices and the science behind them when learning to fish (to take just one example), and then grows up to work in the lumber harvesting industry, for example, may be more likely to think about, support, and maybe even implement best practices in THERE w/respect to the fish, and THAT might make a long term difference. Yeah, I know, quite the romantic idealist.

But my main point above was that I have noticed there are a LOT more people out there now that know the science now (lactic acid, slime, etc.), and are going to react this way than ten years ago. FISHERMEN, not just armchair environmentalists as you implied above – that was my point. My guess that there will be even more in the future. Personally this is the only time I have gotten on my high horse about it on social media of any sort.

At any rate, like I said before, I don't think parr matter a damn on an ecosystem level either way. They are kind of the "experimental" part of the genetic population, where the "old" ones are more of a repository of successful genes, not to mention reproducing – inherently more valuable to the survival of a population. But the issue and science are still worth discussing in a mature way.

I'm surprised you hadn't heard of the issue of disturbing their "slime" (that is a pretty old factoid), so at least some communication occurred. Also, you are definitely going to be thinking about us dickheads that over-criticized you the next time you go through the processing of landing photographing a fish! LOL Mission accomplished.

Not if you will excuse me I have to go tie some fish-friendly flies tonight as the shad I will be fishing for this weekend have very dainty and delicate mouths – being plankton feeders when not migrating in the rivers. I'll be packing a tiny suture kit.

[Ryan Tucker]

For me the slime issue was a bit of a misunderstanding on my part. I knew my hands and to a lesser extent a net could be an issue. I have always worked to minimize the issue. I never really thought about natural items like rocks that I assume they contact from time to time in the water being an issue. It is an example of me reading the info and simply not interpreting that as part of the issue. I have no problem with helping people to learn, as previously stated. I took exception to the tone. It is why if you check my post history you'll never see me in a discussion like this, but I know I had taken a significant number of measures to protect the fish. Each photo occurred in less than 30 seconds, even a photo of a fish on a rock. I always hold fish in a net submerged when grabbing my iPhone, etc…Thanks for your thoughts.

[Marko Botsaris]

I have the same issue – how to get a nice snap of a fish when fishing alone. As I've gotten more obsessive about the fish's health I find that I often forget to take a snap, just as often blow it off because I feel like I am juggling net, rod and trying to pull out a camera. Have you noticed the all the really good pics are taken by someone else – giving the other person a chance display and babysit the fish. LOL

It seems like I definitely have a distracting sense of urgency about getting them back them the water in the past years. Five seconds after I do that I then remember the camera. There is definitely a downside to worrying about this stuff. Unfortunately I missed taking a picture of my first wild rainbow on the Yuba recently, an 18'er that was for me a minor victory as I had been flailing at that river on several winter trips without success. I wish I had that picture now.

Recently I went to a private lodge (first time ever for me) with a big lake of huge stocked trout. You could basically cast to them fine from shore, so my friend said "why the hell are you wearing your waders?" I said "because I may need to jump in an revive a fish?" He just laughed at me, probably rightly. On the the other hand when I caught one of the fat football-shaped rainbow, about 2 feet long, it did in fact "need" for me to jump in and hold it upright for about 2 minutes until it could finally could swim off.

[Adam Klags]

Just read this (well, most of it) and I'm not sure why all the back and forth is necessary, when its common knowledge (as well as common respect to your fellow fishermen) that one does not post pictures of "grounded" fish, or fish that have been placed on the rock/ground to have a photo taken. There is no issue taking photos of fish when you treat them properly. I think most people laid it out here with the facts… but in case it isn't clear… you just don't take a fish out of the water and put it on a rock or the ground to snap a photo. Do it in the water, in the net, in your hand, however you want as long as it doesn't involve putting a fish on the ground or on a rock. I don't think anyone needed to attack the OP on his general C&R practices, none of us know because we haven't observed. Everyone makes mistakes and nobody is perfect, its important to give plenty of benefit of the doubt. But it would have been simpler if the OP had just said "ok, you're right, I shouldn't have put the fish on a rock to photograph them." End of story. Meanwhile, there's some good info now in this thread for anyone looking for C&R facts. Nice to see other people concerned with proper C&R, including the OP.

[Ryan Tucker]

I didn't find your assertion that it was common knowledge to be true.

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