Is my Backpack ok for Philmont?

[Daniel Budd]

I've been using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa for two years now. I love it. I had planned to use it for Philmont. I carried 27 lb. in it for a five day trip in the White Mountains, and it did well. Now I'm reading all these posts of 40 lb. packs for Philmont and getting worried. I really don't have the cash to go out and buy another bag. I was hoping to have no more than 30 lb. at Philmont, but it seems this crew gear, and the food and water really adds on a bunch of pounds. I also read a few posts where scouters listed their Philmont gear. I looked up each piece, these guys had well over $2000 in UL gear on them! and they still had 40 lb. packs! Will my pack work, and is there any way to stay under 31 lb. at Philmont? Any feedback?

[Jay L]

Gossamer Gear says it would be a good pack for Philmont. The same question was asked and answered in the comments here: http://gossamergear.com/wp/scouting/lightweight-backpacking-at-philmont

There is also a series of videos where the GG guys went to somebodies Philmont shake down meetings. They went through a leaders pack and made suggestions.

Im not familiar with that pack. I used a Golite Pinnacle on my last trek which is a bit larger (70L). As I recall I started with about 18lbs before crew gear/food/water and was right about 32lbs when I stepped on the trail. I had a little room to spare but not much.

There is enough info available online regarding the bulk and weight of Philmont gear and food that you should be able to do a really good estimate. Get some stuff of comparable weight/bulk, Load everything up, see if it works for you.

[Daniel Budd]

Thanks Jay! I'm feeling a little better, and will start going down the list and packing it up :)

[Jim Colten]

Daniel,

Short answer is "it depends".

For background … I've been to Philmont just twice, itineraries in the 22-23 range. I used a Granite Gear Virga both times. That is a completely frameless pack with a 1.5" webbing "hip belt" and it handles gear volume similar to the 2015 Mariposa (I don't know if your Mariposa is the same volume as this year's). I was pleased with the Virga at Philmont … have been pleased for about 10 years now, the only pack I use spring/summer/fall. Leaving HQ with 4.5 days food and three liters of water the pack weighed 32lbs.

So what does "it depend" on? The bigger IF is what you use for shelter and group gear.

Here is how I would proceed if I were in your shoes:

1) Start with the non-consumable portion of 27lb White Mountain load Adjust that:
2) find info about average meal weight here and multiply by the number of meals in your longest stretch between resupplies. adjust the result of step 1) by the difference. BTW, the same link (above) has info about meal volume.
3) Adjust the result of step 2 with the difference in water weight you expect. I tend to camel up before leaving camp and leave with 3 liters but that is a YMMV thing.
4) Peruse the Philmont recommended personal gear list for required personal items not included in your 27lb list, add their weight to the result of step 3)
5) The Philmont group gear is not light but isn't so heavy (with exceptions) that it will make a huge difference. It gets divided across the entire crew. Exceptions: We brought a 10×10 silnylon tarp instead of using their 12×14 PU coated nylon tarp. We brought our own pots (4 plus 6 liter AL pots for a crew of 7 and 6 plus 10 liter pots for a crew of 9 … worked fine. It is hard to divide group gear evenly but compensate for differences by having each pair of "food buddies" shift food between themselves to even out (PhilFood is packaged in units of meals for 2). Shelter is the other variable. Adjust for any difference between your WHite Mtns trip and Philmont. Don't plan on being allowed to use a flat tarp and small ground sheet. An MYOG shelter comprised of a silnylon "Jay Hamm tarp (plans available to BPL full members) plus an SMD Meteor bivvy was accepted without question in 2010, and a TarpTent Rainshadow 2 was accepted in 2007.

[Tony Ronco]

+1 on Jim's Comment

This BPL article on Philmont has helpful suggestions too: Doug Prosser Article

For crew gear, avoid Philmont issued gear as much as possible. Their equipment is very heavy as it is designed to take seasons worth of abuse from inexperienced Scouts. If you do that, your crew gear will be pounds lighter. Same goes for Philmont shelters (Thunder Ridge tents)

For shelter, we used 4 man Oware Pyramids (10×10, 29 oz) for everyone.
Three pyramids were enough for our 12 person crews (8 Scouts, and 4 adult advisors)

I used a Mariposa on Philmont treks in 2011 & 2013. It is a great pack. If your kit is compact, then it is more than enough volume for all the bulky Philmont food. (Several of our crew members used Gossamer Gear packs) My carry weight average coming out of basecaamp was a little over 23lbs (=includes my base weight, 3 days of food, 3 liters of H20, and a share of crew gear … the amount of food & water will depend on which Trek your crew selected).

IMPORTANT: All members of our crew(s) practice a lightweight approach.

A word of caution: I've seen two backpackers outside of our crew (one in 2011 & one in 2013 that were carrying Gossamer Gear packs (both had Gorillas). I had a chance to briefly chat with both …
In 2011 the backpacker I saw (an adult advisor) had this story: After the food was distributed between him & his food buddy and the crew gear was distributed among the crew. They weighted their packs using the scales near the bus staging area, upon seeing that this particular adult advisor had the lightest pack by far, the lead advisor insisted that the person carry all the crew gear, and portion of others' food in order "to be fair" (A lot was hanging outside his pack)
The second was in 2013 (a Scout), who simply said "I'm carrying more than my share" and a little later said "I wish my crew was like yours"
Both complained that trying to go lightweight was cancelled out by getting a lion's share of the crew gear and consumables. As you already know, Gossamer Gear packs are not designed to carry (& be comfortable) those "traditional" Philmont carry weights (OY!).

Make sure that all of your crew practices the lightweight approach … otherwise you might need to reconsider things.

Good Luck and have fun out there!

[M B]

It all depends on your gear.
And your crew gear
and your trek

If you do a good job minimizing crew gear, it will be 2-3 lb per person.
If you do a good job with your baseweight, it can be under 10

My baseweight was about 10 including my share of crew gear with a Circuit.

Longest food carry was 5 days

Had 3 dry camps. My heaviest was 32 lb going into dry camp with 5 days food, 6L.

No problems. Most of the time I was 20ish or under. I usually carried extra food just because I could.

[Daniel Budd]

Wow! All of this is VERY helpful. As I get time I will respond more. I'm definitely working on lowering my base weight. Also we have a training meeting tonight and I think we'll talk about the process we will use to distribute crew gear. It would be terrible to have guys who worked on getting light, be loaded down on the first day as a "reward" for being light.

[Bruce Kolkebeck]

I used a GoLite Jam 70 in 2013 and it about killed me. Philmont doesn't know how to prepare light meals. Canned Turkey etc. Also you are expected to carry a gallon of water to some locations. They frown on light ropes for bear bags etc. If you get your big three down it will help. But a UL pack can be tough when Philmont is expecting you to carry their stuff.

BK
Philmont 4 times

[Mark Rash]

In 2012 I carried a ULA Circuit pack and will again this summer. The Circuit is similar in capacity to the Mariposa. My base weight was 18 lbs and I felt like this size pack was just right for Philmont.

One thing that will help significantly is if you will take the food out of the bags from which you receive it and pack them more compactly in a separate dry bag. I used a Sea to Summit 20L Ultra Sil dry bag to carry my food in the pack and then just clipped it onto the bear ropes at camp to use as the bear bag. You will need to make a mental note of what food items go with each meal… but all you have to do is look at another crew member's meal bag to refresh your memory in camp.

As far as heavy, bulky crew gear, you can help yourself if you have lighter versions you can take. Our crew takes lighter pots and a silnylon dining fly along with lighter weight poles. We won't need much of the Philmont crew gear… our gear is lighter and less bulky.

[tkkn c]

We had 4 Mariposa packs when we went in 2010. They all worked fine.
Has the crew backpacked together before?
If your crew bring most of it's own gear you should be fine.
If you are the only one going light, then I could see that there could be some crew issues.

[Rich Bowman]

I used my Mariposa in 2008 and will use it again next month. It worked great. (Much better than the heavy traditional pack I had used on previous treks.
We split food and crew gear evenly amoung the crew and didn't focus on total pack weight.
We did adjust some things along the way to help out those who were struggling and slow down the ones that tended to leave the rest behind.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Daniel,

I haven't been to Philmont, but I have done some colder weather trips with my GG Mariposa where I had to carry a fair amount of water. Between the cold wx gear and the water, I carried 38 lbs total pack weight. The Mariposa handled it fine, and it was a lot more comfortable than my old GoLite Pinnacle (which is what they used to call the Jam 70) with similar weight.

While the main compartment of a Mariposa is only 47 L, the pockets can hold a substantial amount of gear if need be. Total capacity is 70 L.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin' Jim's Blog

[Daniel Budd]

Thanks everyone, I'm feeling a lot better that my bag will be fine. Working on my base weight now. The Crew and I have done several trips for training and we are very excited to get to Philmont for the first time this August.

[Brian Crain]

I use a GG Mariposa most all treks now but I'm taking the big heavy Gregory Baltoro to our Philmont trek this year. I'd rather not …my personal gear, share of food, etc is plenty low enough to stay within the comfort range of my GG but we have a very young group going this year and I anticipate carrying much more than my share on same days (Phillips, Trail Peak, etc).

I've had my GG above the threshold of comfort on one of our shakedowns and it wasn't fun… there is a threshold of a few grams is seems where the GG goes from "I forgot I even had this thing on" to "OMFG IT BURNS WHEN I PEE" kinda pain and I don't want to experience that again.

[Brad Barth]

My son and I used a Mariposa for our trek, and I wish I would have used something sturdier. Our gear was light, but when adding crew gear, food just after resupply, and enough water going into a dry camp,we were up over 35#. It seems like it works great up to that weight, but suddenly becomes much more uncomfortable. Then one of our younger scouts had an injury, so we lightened his load too. I would like to try one of the new Aether packs out there.

[Patrick Moran]

So, how did it go?? I used mine this year and it worked out just fine. Based weight was approx 15lbs and I hit 25.5lbs with full food/water load at the base camp scale. At various times, I carried crew gear, additional food/water, trash, etc, but I don't think I got more than around 35-38lbs and the pack carried great the whole time. Love GG. Hope you had a similar experience! Porrick

[Daniel Budd]

Oh thanks for the reply. My GG pack worked great! We had an awesome trek. Here is my full gear review https://youtu.be/V4aMfqFAUX0

[Walter Underwood]

The Mariposa should be fine. I carried a Six Moon Designs Starlite in 2010.

wunder

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